School choice

[wilkeliza]

I'm very curious how all of this works as well. I do hope this thread stays open because it's a huge deal and I, like I'm guessing a lot of people, are nervous about how this is all going to play out. I also wonder how it affects property values if people are allowed to choose whatever school they want. We live in an area where there is a highly rated district only five miles away from a poorly performing district, and the prices of homes in the poorly rated district are $100,000 less than the homes in the highly rated district. So for those who paid more for their home strictly to get the "good" schools, will their home values drop? Will the home values in the poorly rated district rise?

We bought a home in the poorly rated district and send our kids to private schools already. It may or may not affect us positively if we can all start sending our kids wherever we want now, or get vouchers to apply to our private school tuition, but I worry about those whose kids have severe special needs, or who can't afford transportation, and things like that.

It most likely won't affect property value. Choice is still subject to maximums. Kids who are districted to that great school still get first dibs and then others are either brought in through lottery or first come first served. The whole reason is that even if you have the best teachers a class of 40 is going to suffer compared to a great teacher with a class of 20. So either the good school will have to spend their budget on more teachers or they'll cap enrollment to keep their school performing at the highest level.

 

[erin1715]

It sounds like there are some good benefits but some students will still get lost in the shuffle. Our current public education system seems to be broken, at least where I am located, so it makes sense to try something else. Throwing more money at the problem doesn't seem to be fixing it, at least not in NY where we spend more per pupil than probably any other state.

 

[bcla]

There are a lot of variations. Simple school choice in a large school district is one thing. Then there are charter schools that are technically publicly financed. Finally there are vouchers that can be used in private schools.

I guess one of the main issues I have is that often the school is given too much credit compared to the family and economic backgrounds. I went to a public high school that didn't necessarily wow anyone with the average test scores that did things like increase the value of homes. We had kids who were from poorer sections of the district. We had everything from dropouts to kids going to the better known private and public universities. When we looked at the situation, it was pretty obvious to some degree that the more affluent kids were doing better than the less affluent ones. One exception might have been those from Asian immigrant families, but that's a fairly well known phenomenon. All the kids theoretically had access to the same programs and the same teachers. One of the teachers of an AP class also taught remedial classes.

One time I got stuck in a lower-tier class for whatever reason. The teacher was telling me that I really didn't belong there, but I just couldn't get out because the higher-tier classes were full. The kids there weren't necessarily stupid, but often I could sense they didn't care.

San Francisco is really odd. They have a system where no child is guaranteed a spot at a neighborhood school. They sort of have school choice, and it's designed to mix students from different backgrounds. They've been giving more choice recently to families, and for the most part they've been choosing schools closer to their neighborhoods rather than the better performing schools.

 

[cabanafrau]

Good point. There are inequalities not matter what. We have what everyone brags is a "great" school system. 25 minutes away, there are kids who are stuck in a not so good school system. With school choice some of those kids would have the option to join our school system. They don't take everyone in school choice -- you have to get good grades and there is a wait list. Therefore, everyone won't be bailing on a school.

In Michigan where I am they must take everyone in school choice providing they live within the designated county border & have not been expelled from a school system for behavioral or criminal reasons. Cherry picking is not allowed.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

In Michigan where I am they must take everyone in school choice providing they live within the designated county border & have not been expelled from a school system for behavioral or criminal reasons. Cherry picking is not allowed.

Don't schools have enrollment limits, physically? Due to lack of teachers or classrooms?

 

[erin1715]

There are a lot of variations. Simple school choice in a large school district is one thing. Then there are charter schools that are technically publicly financed. Finally there are vouchers that can be used in private schools.

I guess one of the main issues I have is that often the school is given too much credit compared to the family and economic backgrounds. I went to a public high school that didn't necessarily wow anyone with the average test scores that did things like increase the value of homes. We had kids who were from poorer sections of the district. We had everything from dropouts to kids going to the better known private and public universities. When we looked at the situation, it was pretty obvious to some degree that the more affluent kids were doing better than the less affluent ones. One exception might have been those from Asian immigrant families, but that's a fairly well known phenomenon. All the kids theoretically had access to the same programs and the same teachers. One of the teachers of an AP class also taught remedial classes.

One time I got stuck in a lower-tier class for whatever reason. The teacher was telling me that I really didn't belong there, but I just couldn't get out because the higher-tier classes were full. The kids there weren't necessarily stupid, but often I could sense they didn't care.

San Francisco is really odd. They have a system where no child is guaranteed a spot at a neighborhood school. They sort of have school choice, and it's designed to mix students from different backgrounds. They've been giving more choice recently to families, and for the most part they've been choosing schools closer to their neighborhoods rather than the better performing schools.

I could not agree more with the bolded. IMO, this is where the problem stems and all we are doing is putting a bandaid on the problem.

 

[cabanafrau]

Don't schools have enrollment limits, physically? Due to lack of teachers or classrooms?

Yes. Generally from what I am personally aware most districts resolve a capacity issue by first come, first served until limit is reached, as well as allowing priority to incoming siblings of currently enrolled students.

 

[cvjw]

Metro Atlanta area here and we have a variation of school choice. The district my kids attend allows kids to fill empty slots at better performing schools. It is a lottery system and the parent must provide transportation.

My district also runs around 10 magnet schools where high achieving kids from the district can apply for admission. The district provides transportation to all students who are accepted, regardless of where they live in the district.

Both of my boys have utilized the dual enrollment program where they attend a local university for their senior year in high school. The credits count for both high school and college. Have to apply to get in, and have a certain gpa and sat score.

I am all for school choice. In my district, some of the schools are rated as some of the best in the nation, and some are failing. I assume the teachers are are the same in all, but in some schools high achieving kids are trapped with a bunch of kids who just don't try or care. There needs to be a vehicle to get the high achieving kids out of those schools. School choice can do this.

It is a worthy goal to try and make all schools better. However if you have spent any time around kids who don't try, don't care and just cause trouble, that may not be an achievable goal. I would rather try and save the kids who want to be saved.

 

[QueenIsabella]

I've had kids in schools in upstate NY, NH, and NC--4 children, with an 11-year span in ages, so different kids/grades/times.

In NY, there was no school choice. Or, the choice was "take it or leave it". In NH, we had one (elementary) charter school. We opted not to go that route, as the assigned school was #2 in the state.

Here in NC, there is school choice. LOTS of school choice. So much, in fact, my head is spinning. We opted to buy a house in a great district--not knowing school choice was even a thing here. So, we didn't look into lower grades at all--we're happy where we are. But, there are many options for HS (DD13 is in 8th grade). I attended a meeting last week, and there were 8 (!!!) different HS options presented (all of these are public--there are many private options, too). There were 4 programs, each affiliated with a particular HS in the area--for example, one HS is near the ocean, and offers a Marine Biology specialty. There is also a vo-tech school, a charter school, and two early college HS, where the students complete their diploma and an Associate's degree in 4/5 years (depending on the HS you choose). In addition, Jr. ROTC is big here, so you can choose your HS based on their ROTC affiliation. All of these are in-county, so transportation is free. You get first dibs in your home district, but then registration opens up to kids out-of-district, a little later. There's also a Performing Arts HS, I don't know if it's public or private.

DD13 has decided she wants to go to our "home" HS, and take their IB program. DS10 has already said that he'd like to attend the HS with the STEM specialty (budding engineer).

I don't see how students can be hurt by offering so many choices. It seems like the schools are genuinely trying to meet the needs of a wide variety of students/interests. Obviously, someone has to care enough to actually do a little research and find the best fit, and some kids will just go to their home district and never give it a second thought. But, that's on them--the district is trying to turn out productive adults, it's clearly a priority.

 

[3 MEN AND A BOAT]

I could not agree more with the bolded. IMO, this is where the problem stems and all we are doing is putting a bandaid on the problem.

From a different perspective, what about a child with an involved parent that is stuck in a school with a majority of kids that don't care, their parents don't care, the kids don't want to be their, and they're constantly interrupting class. Causing the kids that do want to learn to miss out due to interruptions.

In full disclosure my oldest daughter goes to private school, I plan to do the same for my younger son. We're involved with our kids, we're already removing them from the system and honestly I feel a certain amount cheated by the current system. I currently pay for 2 school educations; public school through taxes and private school tuition.

 

[Klayfish]

I see what you're saying about the stacking football teams, but just to give another side to that thought...where I live, the "bad" school I was speaking of is also the largest in terms of school size, so their football team has more talent, is more diverse, plays larger schools and because of that probably gets more exposure. In that case, I think that could actually help draw more kids to this school if they want to play on a good football team, and that could help the school overall as well.

Yeah, you'll get no disagreement from me there. But when you're part of the district that kids leave to go play elsewhere and your teams stink, makes for a long year. First world problems, believe me, after all it's just youth football. So I'm saying it sort of tongue in cheek, but I do feel bad for my boys who fight hard but lose all the time.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

I'm in NJ and you go to school where you live, in your district.

I pay more money to live in my town for the school district. It's the only reason I live there. Once my kids graduate I plan on moving to a cheaper town. If I can move to a much cheaper town now and still send my kids to my current district that works for me. I guess like a PP stated, I can see property values changing.

 

[mjkacmom]

Don't schools have enrollment limits, physically? Due to lack of teachers or classrooms?

Here we have trailers at some schools, and they are trying to pass a referendum to add on to schools. We only have one HS and one JH, several elementary schools, no buses. You buy a house in town, your child can go to school here.

 

[brockash]

Well I really hope we can keep politics out of this post, as I am genuinely curious to hear others experiences.

Of course this is stemming from the recent events. I live in upstate NY and this is an area where we have no charter or magnet schools that I am aware of, so we are entirely publicly educated. There are some private religious schools but maybe only one that I can think of where I live.

So I am quite insulated from the idea of school choice and all I hear is the negative side. I'd like to hear from some of you (perhaps in the south?) who have had school choice and whether you think it's beneficial or not.

I truly do not mean to stir up any angst, so mods I apologize if this gets heated. It is my hope to just be educated from all sides.

I guess my biggest concern is who's going to pay for it? What determines what schools kids can go to, is it first come first serve?

 

[erin1715]

From a different perspective, what about a child with an involved parent that is stuck in a school with a majority of kids that don't care, their parents don't care, the kids don't want to be their, and they're constantly interrupting class. Causing the kids that do want to learn to miss out due to interruptions.

In full disclosure my oldest daughter goes to private school, I plan to do the same for my younger son. We're involved with our kids, we're already removing them from the system and honestly I feel a certain amount cheated by the current system. I currently pay for 2 school educations; public school through taxes and private school tuition.

I absolutely see your side of things too. My husband is a teacher and has been in classrooms with those students are just there to be disruptive. It isn't fair.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

From a different perspective, what about a child with an involved parent that is stuck in a school with a majority of kids that don't care, their parents don't care, the kids don't want to be their, and they're constantly interrupting class. Causing the kids that do want to learn to miss out due to interruptions.

In full disclosure my oldest daughter goes to private school, I plan to do the same for my younger son. We're involved with our kids, we're already removing them from the system and honestly I feel a certain amount cheated by the current system. I currently pay for 2 school educations; public school through taxes and private school tuition.

I know this is easier said than done but you move to a better district. I was a single mom (after my divorce) not making much and my #1 priority was staying in my district with good schools. Most of my income went to the rent but to me it was worth it.

I went to crappy schools growing up. I'm talking worst in the state. With conditions you stated and worse. School was a complete joke. We didn't learn a thing. I couldn't do that to my kids.

 

[diznygirl]

Seems to me that there is already choice - if you can afford private education then do it. Getting vouchers to not use the public school you wouldn't use anyway is just a kick-back from the government. It's not like the taxes you pay aren't also being used for other community services that you don't a get choice in. Do you want to use a different fire department - get a voucher to use Reedy Creek instead of your local guys?

This is purely a socio-economic issue - the rich get richer and the poor get hosed.

 

[Poohforyou]

In a way our district in nj already offers school choice. We have both a STEM and a performing arts program that attracts kids from other districts. The sending district pays our district what their per student cost is and the parents pick up the difference.

It's great for us because without those students we wouldn't likely have those programs. However, as others have said, school choice really impacts low income families and/or low performing students.

You have to have the money and grades to go to a private school.

Within 10 miles of our house we have 3 boarding schools and easily 12-15 private schools plus a bunch of parochial schools. All offer financial aid and merit scholarships so there are choices for certain families and students.

Choice really isn't choice though unless all options are afforded every student.

 

[Gracie09]

I've had kids in schools in upstate NY, NH, and NC--4 children, with an 11-year span in ages, so different kids/grades/times.

In NY, there was no school choice. Or, the choice was "take it or leave it". In NH, we had one (elementary) charter school. We opted not to go that route, as the assigned school was #2 in the state.

Here in NC, there is school choice. LOTS of school choice. So much, in fact, my head is spinning. We opted to buy a house in a great district--not knowing school choice was even a thing here. So, we didn't look into lower grades at all--we're happy where we are. But, there are many options for HS (DD13 is in 8th grade). I attended a meeting last week, and there were 8 (!!!) different HS options presented (all of these are public--there are many private options, too). There were 4 programs, each affiliated with a particular HS in the area--for example, one HS is near the ocean, and offers a Marine Biology specialty. There is also a vo-tech school, a charter school, and two early college HS, where the students complete their diploma and an Associate's degree in 4/5 years (depending on the HS you choose). In addition, Jr. ROTC is big here, so you can choose your HS based on their ROTC affiliation. All of these are in-county, so transportation is free. You get first dibs in your home district, but then registration opens up to kids out-of-district, a little later. There's also a Performing Arts HS, I don't know if it's public or private.

DD13 has decided she wants to go to our "home" HS, and take their IB program. DS10 has already said that he'd like to attend the HS with the STEM specialty (budding engineer).

I don't see how students can be hurt by offering so many choices. It seems like the schools are genuinely trying to meet the needs of a wide variety of students/interests. Obviously, someone has to care enough to actually do a little research and find the best fit, and some kids will just go to their home district and never give it a second thought. But, that's on them--the district is trying to turn out productive adults, it's clearly a priority.

Do they have to take all kids - even those with extensive ieps? That is the population that often gets left behind. And if you live in an area without choice aren't you at a disadvantage?

 

[3DisneyBuggs]

I do believe parents should have a choice in where they educate their kids.