School choice

[erin1715]

Well I really hope we can keep politics out of this post, as I am genuinely curious to hear others experiences.

Of course this is stemming from the recent events. I live in upstate NY and this is an area where we have no charter or magnet schools that I am aware of, so we are entirely publicly educated. There are some private religious schools but maybe only one that I can think of where I live.

So I am quite insulated from the idea of school choice and all I hear is the negative side. I'd like to hear from some of you (perhaps in the south?) who have had school choice and whether you think it's beneficial or not.

I truly do not mean to stir up any angst, so mods I apologize if this gets heated. It is my hope to just be educated from all sides.

 

[mefordis]

A close friend in Michigan loves school choice. Their kids go to a top public school with great sports and academics and they live 15 minutes away in a different town. Their school wasn't good at all.

If we keep this only school choice oriented, and if we don't mention any politicians, it shouldn't get deleted.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

Shouldn't we be worrying about getting all schools to be "good" instead of mass exiting from the "bad" schools?

 

[mefordis]

Shouldn't we be worrying about getting all schools to be "good" instead of mass exiting from the "bad" schools?

Isn't that what people have been trying to do, and failing?

 

[wilkeliza]

School choice is a problem because instead of encouraging all children to have the same access to quality education it allows those with the means to pull their kids to get a better school when those who rely on the bus system or the better schools are too far out of the way are stuck in struggling schools. So instead of fighting for a better school those who can just pull their kids from bad schools do.

I had the option of school choice because my mother taught in the district so we could go to any school inside the district as long as she picked up and dropped off. She did not exercise that because in her opinion what would it speak to the school she taught in if she pulled us out of it to go to a different one.

 

[Gracie09]

school choice is great if 1) you have schools to choose from 2) you can afford any additional money you may have to pay for transportation, tuition not covered by the voucher etc 3) your child doesn't have special needs. Then you are up a creek because private/magnet/out of district schools do not have to accept them and if they do they do not have to provide them the same services they are entitled to at their home school.

So if you're poor/working class, live in a rural area, or have special needs you get left behind at a school that may now have less money to educate you and others like you.

 

[L&Lfan]

Love school choice! But I don't think this thread's gonna last very long!

 

[erin1715]

Shouldn't we be worrying about getting all schools to be "good" instead of mass exiting from the "bad" schools?

Yeah, this is not an easy problem to solve. We have public schools that are in well-off neighborhoods and they receive awards because the students excel, and then 10 minutes away is a much larger public school that is located in a low income neighborhood and their kids don't do as well. I'm not convinced that the teachers are better at the well-off school than the low income school. So what's the answer....I don't know.

 

[loves to dive]

I live in Georgia and unless you go to private school, you can't choose what school you go to. You go to the one in the district you live in, period. I think there are a few counties that allow you buy into but for the most part, you go where you live. I went to public school (a number of them, started in Georgia, moved to upper state Ohio and then ended in NM) and was in the top ten of my graduating class. My son went to a rural county public school and regularly makes the Dean's list in college and has been asked to join the Honor Society there. Was his school the best in the state or surrounding counties? Probably not but he did have teacher's who recognized his abilities and nurtured it.

 

[mefordis]

Yeah, this is not an easy problem to solve. We have public schools that are in well-off neighborhoods and they receive awards because the students excel, and then 10 minutes away is a much larger public school that is located in a low income neighborhood and their kids don't do as well. I'm not convinced that the teachers are better at the well-off school than the low income school. So what's the answer....I don't know.

Good point. There are inequalities not matter what. We have what everyone brags is a "great" school system. 25 minutes away, there are kids who are stuck in a not so good school system. With school choice some of those kids would have the option to join our school system. They don't take everyone in school choice -- you have to get good grades and there is a wait list. Therefore, everyone won't be bailing on a school.

 

[erin1715]

Based on my experience here, and my husband being a teacher, it sounds like if "bad" schools did give students/parents an option to choose where to send their child, it would take some parental involvement, correct? The parent would need to actually care, fill out paperwork, and put a little effort in for their child? And from what I've seen, there are parents who don't even care if their child shows up to school much less try to get them into a better school. I think the problem is the home situation, but that's an entirely different discussion.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

Isn't that what people have been trying to do, and failing?

So how does school choice fix this? Isn't this just abandoning the schools that aren't performing and leaving the students there to rot? Who decides what students can go elsewhere? Is there a lottery, or is everyone eligible? Are private school vouchers based on financial need? What happens if parents don't have adequate transportation?

I am not being rhetorical, because my state doesn't do a voucher system. We have charter schools and home schooling, but don't allow for going to neighboring districts or private school vouchers. In Pennsylvania, districts are required to provide transportation for charter school students. What do other states do?

 

[wilkeliza]

Yeah, this is not an easy problem to solve. We have public schools that are in well-off neighborhoods and they receive awards because the students excel, and then 10 minutes away is a much larger public school that is located in a low income neighborhood and their kids don't do as well. I'm not convinced that the teachers are better at the well-off school than the low income school. So what's the answer....I don't know.

It isn't easy at all that's for sure. Of course I grew up in a state that is notorious for "teaching to the test" what is odd though is I never once experienced that in my life and went to schools that made decent test scores. Our teachers taught us what we needed for the subject and every so often we did a test drill but it wasn't an every day all class thing that some parents make it out to be. Neither district was ranked as the highest but the kids ranged across the board in academic ability and both had programs for kids on both ends of academic spectrum. I thought I had a pretty good education for being in a large metropolitan city district and a rural district (split almost 50/50 in my case) even though the numbers don't say that. It must have been the teachers who made the difference.

 

[kamik86]

Although I understand what everyone above is saying it would be the same as saying you shouldn't get to choose what company you work for you, you should just be assigned to one because if you pick the best workers will all go to the same companies and all the other companies will fail.

In both cases that is true. Yes it would be better if ALL schools were great but lets be honest they aren't all going to be great so if I was a parent I would want the option of school choice because lets face it at the end of the day I would want the best education for my kid. Yeah it would be great if all the other kids could get that too but if I can only fix it for my kid guess who I'm fixing it for?

 

[Klayfish]

I live in Georgia and unless you go to private school, you can't choose what school you go to. You go to the one in the district you live in, period. I think there are a few counties that allow you buy into but for the most part, you go where you live.

Not here in Atlanta area. You don't have to go to the school where you live, you can request to go to a different school, either within the district or in another one. My kids go to the district they'd be in anyway, but not the same school that the rest of our community does. The numbers are limited, I presume it's "first come, first serve", but it's allowed.

I don't watch the news, so I have no idea what the recent events that brought this thread up are, but I like school choice. Didn't have it in PA, but do here. For our purposes, it allows my kids to go to the school where my wife works. One thing I don't like about it, here in the south, is that schools tend to stack their football teams that way. It's very sad they do that, but they do. Kids go to an out of their area district to play on a certain team.

 

[wilkeliza]

So how does school choice fix this? Isn't this just abandoning the schools that aren't performing and leaving the students there to rot? Who decides what students can go elsewhere? Is there a lottery, or is everyone eligible? Are private school vouchers based on financial need? What happens if parents don't have adequate transportation?

I am not being rhetorical, because my state doesn't do a voucher system. We have charter schools and home schooling, but don't allow for going to neighboring districts or private school vouchers. In Pennsylvania, districts are required to provide transportation for charter school students. What do other states do?

In my limited experience for vouchers you have to prove that your in district school does not provide the services for your parent. So say your kid is testing above grade level and your current school has 0 AP or duel credit offerings. You could try to get a voucher to go to a private school. The worst case though is that a school can also say sorry your kids IEP is too much of a burden on us so here is a voucher for this school that will meet their needs better. So now a kid who could of been mainstream with a few adjustments given through an IEP now is passed off to a special ed private school that actually may or may not meet their requirements and most parents unknowingly sign away their rights to an IEP and quality education when getting the vouchers.

 

[DopeyDame]

"School choice" is really a very wide-spectrum.

In some cases (like vouchers or certain charter school setups), school choice may pull money away from the public school system as the money "follows the child". So the main public schools suffer at the expense of individual families. (Because even though a class now has 24 kids instead of 25 kids, you still have the same costs for teaachers, heating, etc. etc.) And the kids who move to other schools are, by definition, the kids whose parents are at least involved enough in their education to even know that school choice is a possibility.

In my district, though, "school choice" is very much an integral part of the regular public school system. In addition to the "home school" we also have several magnet and contract schools. Those schools are still public schools, and still have to follow the regulations of the public schools (and many of them are also some kids' home schools). The district actively uses the magnet model to adjust enrollment trends - so schools that are underenrolled or under performing are typically the ones with the best magnet programs so that more better educated/higher SES families go there, contributing to an improved overall school environment and evening out enrollment.
More importantly, the magnet programs offer a variety of educational opportunities to best meet a variety of educational needs - hopefully allowing more kids to have a really awesome public school experience that best meets their needs.
We also have public charter schools that are specifically located in areas that had been over-enrolled, so they were approved as a key component in managing the growing student population.

The school choice program began 7 years ago here, and public school enrollment has sky-rocketed since then, partly due to population growth, but more due to families going to the public schools who had previously sent their kids to private schools.

 

[Gracie09]

Although I understand what everyone above is saying it would be the same as saying you shouldn't get to choose what company you work for you, you should just be assigned to one because if you pick the best workers will all go to the same companies and all the other companies will fail.

In both cases that is true. Yes it would be better if ALL schools were great but lets be honest they aren't all going to be great so if I was a parent I would want the option of school choice because lets face it at the end of the day I would want the best education for my kid. Yeah it would be great if all the other kids could get that too but if I can only fix it for my kid guess who I'm fixing it for?

education is a right. Your analogy is flawed. Its like saying if you don't meet certain criteria (here money, location and no special needs) you are stuck in the basement of the company with no way of moving companies, but everyone else can move. Its not an us and them. A well educated population is beneficial for all of us.

 

[erin1715]

Not here in Atlanta area. You don't have to go to the school where you live, you can request to go to a different school, either within the district or in another one. My kids go to the district they'd be in anyway, but not the same school that the rest of our community does. The numbers are limited, I presume it's "first come, first serve", but it's allowed.

I don't watch the news, so I have no idea what the recent events that brought this thread up are, but I like school choice. Didn't have it in PA, but do here. For our purposes, it allows my kids to go to the school where my wife works. One thing I don't like about it, here in the south, is that schools tend to stack their football teams that way. It's very sad they do that, but they do. Kids go to an out of their area district to play on a certain team.

I see what you're saying about the stacking football teams, but just to give another side to that thought...where I live, the "bad" school I was speaking of is also the largest in terms of school size, so their football team has more talent, is more diverse, plays larger schools and because of that probably gets more exposure. In that case, I think that could actually help draw more kids to this school if they want to play on a good football team, and that could help the school overall as well.

 

[katie01]

I'm very curious how all of this works as well. I do hope this thread stays open because it's a huge deal and I, like I'm guessing a lot of people, are nervous about how this is all going to play out. I also wonder how it affects property values if people are allowed to choose whatever school they want. We live in an area where there is a highly rated district only five miles away from a poorly performing district, and the prices of homes in the poorly rated district are $100,000 less than the homes in the highly rated district. So for those who paid more for their home strictly to get the "good" schools, will their home values drop? Will the home values in the poorly rated district rise?

We bought a home in the poorly rated district and send our kids to private schools already. It may or may not affect us positively if we can all start sending our kids wherever we want now, or get vouchers to apply to our private school tuition, but I worry about those whose kids have severe special needs, or who can't afford transportation, and things like that.