School board OKs return to classroom after sex change

[LukenDC]

Disneyguy33, there are many people that I accept even though I disagree with their morals, ethics, and viewpoints. I'm an atheist and do not agree with the morals, ethics, and views of religion. That does not mean that I would prevent people from practicing their religion, shun someone who was religious, or advocate the termination of someone simply because they were religious or changed religions. I also would never equate a murderer or rapist with a religious person.

The religious and moral arguement against transsexuals is bogus because it opposes their very existance. Just the mere fact that someone transsexual exists is enough to push many people over the edge with their religious views as an excuse. No one chooses to have gender identity disorders any more than someone would choose to be born with a disability. Transsexual surgery helps people with gender identity disorder to live fuller, happier lives and I'm all for that.

Unless you and your children live on a commune isolated from the world, you will always encounter people who challenge your beliefs and values. It's just a part of life in a democracy.

 

[DawnCt1]

As a student I would be very weirded out and I know it would be distracting! I don't even get how this surgery works...do they put a uterus in you? How do you pee? Do you get breast implants? It definitely creeps me out and I imagine it would be very confusing for a child. Also I think we need to be teaching kids to learn to accept themsevles.

No, they do not provide a uterus. They use the scrotum to form the external genitalia and create the internal genitalia from the "extra material".. The urinary meatus is formed from the existing plumbing. Yes, they do get breast implants. Some require surgery to reduce a large 'Adam's apple". Its difficult surgery. Its time consuming certain parts require obturators to maintain patency. One has to be very committed to this journey because of its extensive nature. Some things that are obviously male are difficult to change. Broad shoulders, large feet tend to appear masculine.

 

[toto2]

I agree but that woman is postively gruesome!

If only good looking peopel would have the right to work , I guess the country would...die !

 

[paigevz]

I was waiting for someone to bring this one up! It was on our local news two days ago................

I've taught with a lot of people of all sorts of orientations, colors and creeds...........if they're good, their kids know it and appreciate them. If they're bad, well, they know that too. We've got kids this year in our after school begging us to teach them because their daytime teachers aren't doing it...........kids who never cared before, now that they don't have it, want it.

There are a lot worse things a child can experience in a teacher besides change of title and dress.

 

[ducklite]

I was waiting for someone to bring this one up! It was on our local news two days ago................

I've taught with a lot of people of all sorts of orientations, colors and creeds...........if they're good, their kids know it and appreciate them. If they're bad, well, they know that too. We've got kids this year in our after school begging us to teach them because their daytime teachers aren't doing it...........kids who never cared before, now that they don't have it, want it.

There are a lot worse things a child can experience in a teacher besides change of title and dress.

Very, very, very well put.

Anne

 

[LukenDC]

I love this board because things are brought up I would never think about in my non-diz life. I'm a work in progress... this board helps me grow as person. It also puts me in touch with people that are like me which I do not find in my real life.

We are ALL works in progress and personal growth should be a lifelong endeavor. I agree with you wholeheartedly, MAKmom, that the DIS is a great place to meet new people and explore a wide range of topics.

 

[DawnCt1]

If you believe that a transexual lifestyle is OK, then of course you'll accept it, and teach others you know to accept it. If I don't, I won't accept it, nor will I teach others I know to accept it, either.

Transexualism isn't a lifestyle but a disorder. They truly believe that they have been "stuck" in the wrong sexed body. This feeling isn't "new" but has been pervaisive and intrusive since their early childhood. Who knows what the hormonal environment during pregnancy even brought to the table. I know of two 2 18 month old twins who were both born with ambiguous genitalia. The needed to do a careotype to determine what sex they actually were. It turns out that they are both males but they were the product of invitro fertilization and the mother had to take a lot of hormones to maintain the pregnancy. They had corrective surgery so they are intact males. They are genetically males. However, who knows how they will feel as they approach childhood and ultimately puberty. What role will those exogenous hormones have to play at some point in the future...if any?

 

[Planogirl]

I love an earlier point that someone made. There's a big difference between accepting someone and not agreeing with them. I think that lately so many people disapprove of a person's actions and extend that to not accepting them. We're all different and it's a bit trouble that some of us are often penalized for these differences.

 

[cardaway]

With the post count, this is someone who logged in under a different name jsut to stir the pot.

I thought it was cool somebody decided this thread was important enough to create yet another username.

 

[paigevz]

Wow, I like to think I am open minded about most things & accept people who are not evil for who they are. But I would have a very hard time with this. I believe in reincarnation & we choose the body & life we live. Sometimes females come down in male bodys. I really do not know what I would do if this was my childs school. I find it creepy.

Why does it not bother those of you who are ok with it? Are you really %100 ok with your childs teacher doing this?

Yes. It's a personal decision. I would not be okay with my child's teacher "explaining" to my child why, though. I would want to do that myself, so that I can do it my way. If she would simply answer yes to kids who ask if she used to be a man and "ask your parents about that" to any other questions, then fine.

I do admit, it did originally make me raise eyebrows and think I'd want to avoid the whole situation by pulling out my kid..........but that wouldn't avoid it, you'd still have to explain, and when I thought my real problem is with the explanation, then I'm fine once I've had time to think about it and how best to explain it to my child.

So, yep, 100 percent on the teacher doing what she needed to do..............100 percent on this not influencing my perceptions of her as a teacher...........but 0 percent on them telling my child about it....that I want to do myself.

 

[ducklite]

Transexualism isn't a lifestyle but a disorder. They truly believe that they have been "stuck" in the wrong sexed body. This feeling isn't "new" but has been pervaisive and intrusive since their early childhood. Who knows what the hormonal environment during pregnancy even brought to the table. I know of two 2 18 month old twins who were both born with ambiguous genitalia. The needed to do a careotype to determine what sex they actually were. It turns out that they are both males but they were the product of invitro fertilization and the mother had to take a lot of hormones to maintain the pregnancy. They had corrective surgery so they are intact males. They are genetically males. However, who knows how they will feel as they approach childhood and ultimately puberty. What role will those exogenous hormones have to play at some point in the future...if any?

Good points!

Anne

 

[In a hurry]

Interesting. I wouldn't have a problem with the person teaching my daughter, or with a working relationship. To the person who said she was ugly, did you notice her age? She is 71, I believe. I don't expect to be nearly as "hot" as I am now..haha...when I am that age!

 

[Independent]

Yes. It's a personal decision. I would not be okay with my child's teacher "explaining" to my child why, though. I would want to do that myself, so that I can do it my way. If she would simply answer yes to kids who ask if she used to be a man and "ask your parents about that" to any other questions, then fine.

I do admit, it did originally make me raise eyebrows and think I'd want to avoid the whole situation by pulling out my kid..........but that wouldn't avoid it, you'd still have to explain, and when I thought my real problem is with the explanation, then I'm fine once I've had time to think about it and how best to explain it to my child.

So, yep, 100 percent on the teacher doing what she needed to do..............100 percent on this not influencing my perceptions of her as a teacher...........but 0 percent on them telling my child about it....that I want to do myself.

So, you feel that you know "why" somebody did something better than they did? You know what they have lived through, how they feel, what is in their mind and soul better than the person does themself?

If this person has a good track record working with young children, then I am sure she is experienced and can be trusted to provide sensitive and age-appropriate answers to any questions that may come up. That is part of being a good teacher.

 

[In a hurry]

I would want to talk with my child about it, because I know my child. I don't see any reason it should be addressed in a classroom of young children. Frankly, they don't need to know or understand. They just need to know that this is a safe, kind, individual who is different from the way they used to be. A classroom should not be a podium or a soapbox for personal issues, IMO. Why isn't any of their business.

When I was pregnant, the kids knew I was going to have a baby, eventually, but I didn't share with them how and why I got pregnant.

 

[goofygirl]

I think men should be men and women should be women. Sorry, wanting to change your sex is not normal.

There's the rare cases of people of those I feel sorry for: those being born with both female and male organs, but I understand this is NOT the case for most transexuals.

 

[Independent]

I would want to talk with my child about it, because I know my child. I don't see any reason it should be addressed in a classroom of young children. Frankly, they don't need to know or understand. They just need to know that this is a safe, kind, individual who is different from the way they used to be. A classroom should not be a podium or a soapbox for personal issues, IMO. Why isn't any of their business.

When I was pregnant, the kids knew I was going to have a baby, eventually, but I didn't share with them how and why I got pregnant.

Absolutely! And as a respected teacher, you knew what was appropriate for a classroom. If this teacher had such a track record, then she too would know how to sensitively answer any questions that might arise. I don't think the school board would have reinstated her if they thought she was going to use the third grade classroom as a bully pulpit

But if a child asked you why you were pregnant - wouldn't it be appropriate to answer vaguely, but sensitively like "we love children". So if a child asked "why did you become a woman" - wouldn't it be appropriate for the teacher to answer in a sensitive way - "because I was a woman inside" or something to that effect? Instead of "ask your parents why I became a woman?" Or "ask your parents why we are having a child?"

 

[paigevz]

So, you feel that you know "why" somebody did something better than they did? You know what they have lived through, how they feel, what is in their mind and soul better than the person does themself?

If this person has a good track record working with young children, then I am sure she is experienced and can be trusted to provide sensitive and age-appropriate answers to any questions that may come up. That is part of being a good teacher.

Well, my assumption as to why is that she felt that was what she needed to do. That is, of course, what I would explain.

No, I don't want her explaining what she has lived through, how she feels or what's in her mind and soul. Those are precisely the things I don't want being "explained" to him. I don't have a problem with "because I was a woman inside".............that's fine. I don't want the "journey" to be discussed with my elementary aged child. I don't think she would, actually, when I said "they" I meant school officials.

It's not about me disagreeing with what she's done. I don't really have an opinion that way, to me, if you feel you must and you can, fine. It's about what is to be taught at school and what is to be taught at home.

It's no different than my not wanting teachers to explain their political views, marriage views, religion views, childbirth choices, whether they choose to do drugs or not, mental or physical health, family issues and so on. Those are all personal decisions that don't, in general, need to be brought up at school. Most teachers won't, however, there are specific instances that require it. In this case, they must address the fact that she used to be a man.........the kids know it, and they recognize the change. Even a why, answered as you answered it is fine.........again, I didn't really mean I didn't want an answer like that, it would be more specific answers I wouldn't want.

I have answered many children's questions with a version of "ask your parents"........usually religion-based questions when they are disagreeing with a classmate. It's more along the lines of "Jesus is alive!" "No, they killed him, he's dead." "My mom said he's alive forever!" "Is Jesus alive or dead, teacher?" My answer: "That's something you need to talk with your parents about. Now, who can tell me the next step in the water cycle?"
Same when the kids ask me how much I make, or who I'm voting for for President................I generally tell them that's "home learning" and we need to get back to "school learning".

I never meant I wouldn't trust her. I meant I'd want to help my child understand the answers to questions he would have. It's the school officials I would be worried about, the ones who would think they'd know more than she what to say to the kids, and feel the need to "address" it.

Edited to say: thanks for helping me clarify. I was in a hurry, and not quite as thorough as I should have been in answering.

 

[LukenDC]

No, I don't want her explaining what she has lived through, how she feels or what's in her mind and soul. Those are precisely the things I don't want being "explained" to him. I don't have a problem with "because I was a woman inside".............that's fine. I don't want the "journey" to be discussed with my elementary aged child. I don't think she would, actually, when I said "they" I meant school officials.

I agree with you. Teachers need to keep professional boundaries with their students and colleagues. Same goes for people in other professions. Discussing any surgery with students would be a violation of professional boundaries in my book.

In return, the public needs to accept teachers as individuals who are entitled to a private life and their own values.

 

[ducklite]

But I don't see where this teacher was ever saying they intended to discuss the surgery or their reasoning behind it with the kids. All they wanted was the right to do what they have done for the past five years, and by all accounts, done well. Teach.

Anne

 

[paigevz]

I agree with you LukenDC..........my contract states that I can be fired for anything involving "moral turpitude"...........not convicted of a crime, just engaging in "immoral behavior".

Who decides that? Where is it spelled out? Not in our handbook. An administrator was asked by a staff member in a meeting what was considered moral turpitude, and he said, besides criminal activity, that HE would consider a teacher getting drunk in a bar "moral turpitude". He said if we want to get drunk we should do it at home or in another town.

I don't know if they have actual definitive activities spelled out for that or not (probably not getting drunk, anyway), but if they don't, it'd be all up to the interpretation. That could be a bad situation for a lot of teachers, depending on who is doing the interpreting.