Saying grace...

[caitycaity]

I don't know any atheists or agnostics so it hasn't been an issue.

you might have some you don't know about. many of my friends don't know i am an atheist.

i agree with you about the grace thing. honestly, i would (and do) just sit there. i don't need to get up from the table.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

you might have some you don't know about. many of my friends don't know i am an atheist.

i agree with you about the grace thing. honestly, i would (and do) just sit there. i don't need to get up from the table.

Aside from casual interaction I am mostly around Christians b/c of what I presently do.

I don't work outside of the home and I no longer do theater (have developed a mild stagefright and just don't audition anymore)--my two avenues of meeting people that I would get to know well enough to want to invite them over to dinner.

I do have a marathon team that I hang out with through Team in Training and for any function we have ever had they are always saying something about the mission. There may be an occasional "one day God will find a cure" but for the most part--the common cause is sufficient enough for a "blessing" of sorts and we always remember those who have died, those who are sick, and those who are surviving before we eat or whatever. I guess their could be some atheists and agnostics in that group..but everything surrounds the common cause.

 

[my4kids]

Okay, I really want to apologize for strirring up such a hornet's nest. I do have some gay friends and that doesn't bother me at all, but that really doesn't have anything to do with the issue at hand. I used some exagerated examples in my original post to try to make my point, which seems to have tainted the results. I could go on and on about my religious beliefs or disbeliefs, but there isn't enough bandwidth in the web for it. You'll just have to wait for the book to come out.

Thanks again for all the responses, though. A lot of what I've read (and re-read) does solidify my stance even more. And, a hearty thank you to those of you who see the point I'm trying to make and to those who make it even stronger, albiet unintentionally.

Part of the problem (okay, my problem) is that so many people feel it's the non-believer who must always make the concessions in deference to the believers. Let's just say for argument's sake I wanted to say something worshiping the devil (No, I'm not at all into that) at my own dinner table. However brief I was, the Christians would be offended and I could understand that. Even if this was something I really believed in very strongly it would be wrong for me to subject my non-devil-worshiping friends to it. Don't worry, though... I'm not a devil worshiper or anything like that, I just haven't made up my mind on the belief in a God, and that's sixty years into my life.

I want to tell you about one situation and then I'll go away. Years ago, good friends of ours who knew how I felt about such things asked me to be the Godfather to their child. I was flattered that they thought that much of me, but also a bit offended. I politely declined reminding them that I don't believe in such things and therefore could not. Now, these friends were self-proclaimed "real Christians." In short, you weren't really a Christian unless you truly believed as they did and they wore it on both sleeves and made sure you noticed. Given all that, they still pleaded with me to accept against my beliefs... "for them." I had to wonder where their heads were. "We know you're a heathen, but we really want you to be Godfather to our son..." Kinda sad, isn't it?

Oh well, I'll muddle through Thursday the best I can. Again, thanks for all the replies and everyone have a great Thanksgiving! As promised, I'll go away now...

Wow. I just feel like you soooo miss the point. These friends were real Christians , because even though you did not hold their beliefs, they were loving their neighbor enough to want him to hold an important role in the lives of their own child. you should have been flattered....I'm not saying you should have excepted if it goes beyond your beliefs...but definately not offended and i think the story is beautiful and I can't imagine why you see it as sad.

 

[my4kids]

Sorry, but I think expecting me to sit there is controlling and rude. I don't care if you want to say it, I just don't want to be there. Why do I need to be there?

Um, because it is polite....I think it is controlling that you can't suffer through being still and quite for 30 seconds, I don't even expect you to bow your head. I would also think it was rude if you got up and left during a toast. I would think it was rude if you excused yourself in the middle of singing Happy Birthday to someone at the table. It's not that I want to control you into sitting through my Grace, just that in our house we are polite enough to wait for everyone to be at the table before beginning our meal, and the way we begin our meal is with Grace...I also teach my kids not to take a bite until everyone is served, same thing...if you excused yourself before or during Grace and didn't come back until we were done, well we could never start our meal...thats just the way it is here. Just as we couldn't start eating if you had not been served.

 

[my4kids]

I agree with you when you say that Thanksgiving is one of the few times per year when many people tend to "get religious". I do find it hypocritical for people to say grace at these special meals, if they don't do it on a regular basis.

However, I agree with the others who say that it's very rude to walk away from a prayer in someone else's house. It's essentially a slap in the face for the host, who thinks it's important to have a prayer before the meal. If you don't choose to participate in the prayer, you can just sit quietly for a moment. If you know a prayer will be offered, and you simply cannot bring yourself to sit through it quietly, it'd be best not to accept the invitation.

In your own home, of course, you're free to set the tone. I would never say "no prayers, folks" -- it just doesn't seem right. However, you could accomplish the same thing with a great deal more poise: When dinner is about to be served, gather everyone together, give some directions for the meal -- even if it seems a bit obvious (Everyone, please take your seats, we've got a great meal on the table, and be sure to save plenty of room because there's pie waiting in the 'fridge for dessert, now DIG IN!). This seems more like an invitation to begin without a reminder that you're not praying.

I'm just curious. If you don't ever say Grace. and think it is hypocritical to say it at Thanksgiving dinner.......why the heck do you have Thanksgiving dinner? You do know what the "Thanks" in Thanksgiving is referring to don't you? Isn't it a meal to give thanks to God for what you have? (whatever you may call your God) I just think THAT is what is hypocritical. If you don't want to give thanks, then why have "Thanksgiving"? What's the point? You go to all that trouble just to eat Turkey?

I don't think it is hypocritical if a person isn't in the habit of saying Grace, but says it at Thanksgiving...I think it is just a big enough thing that they are especially reminded on that day of "thanksgiving" It is pretty hard to forget with the name of the holiday and all. It's not all about keeping a perfect record of either you say it at every meal or never at all........ I just think its good that they at least take ONE day out of the year to look around and be thankful to God for what they have.

 

[Mysteria]

I think dude who started this topic is just trying to

Myst

 

[chobie]

What makes you believe that it has anythign to do with wanting others to know they are Christian?

Is that like saying the Yamaka (sorry Jenny--don't know how to spell it) is the Universal symbol for "I'm a Jew". Do you believe Jewish men to be pretentious for wearing such an obvious symbol of their faith/

A step further...

Is it pretentious when you see a Muslim woman covered head to toe? I'm sure if you start a thread on that it would go over real well on the DIS.

Yep--people do things only so that they can be labeled as pretentious for showing off something that according to you should be kept private.

I never said it should be kept private. I never said it was offensive. I just said that I think its pretenious.

I don't have problems or think twice about people wearing religous garb or a cross around their neck or whatever.

I do think ( ) when I see Christians praying in public -- I have never seen another religious group praying in a way that is obvious to the strangers around them.

And I'm not the one who thinks people should pray in private --that was Jesus.I just am not impressed when I see the display in public and I do think there might be more of a "look at us --we're Christians" going on.

 

[Fitswimmer]

I never said it should be kept private. I never said it was offensive. I just said that I think its pretenious.

I don't have problems or think twice about people wearing religous garb or a cross around their neck or whatever.

I do think ( ) when I see Christians praying in public -- I have never seen another religious group praying in a way that is obvious to the strangers around them.

And I'm not the one who thinks people should pray in private --that was Jesus.I just am not impressed when I see the display in public and I do think there might be more of a "look at us --we're Christians" going on.

My niece and I were coming back from a visit to the Mouse and when we got off the plane there was a small group of Jewish men standing along the wall praying. I believe they were of the Hasdic sect based on the way they were dressed. I thought it was cool that they felt so strongly about their tradition that they would find a corner of Newark airport to say their prayers-but my niece said "Wouldn't it have scared the c*&^ out of people if they were Muslim men doing that?" Made me think..

I think a person would have to have a pretty big ego to think that everytime someone says grace or says something about their faith that they're doing it to offend him personally...but that's JMHO.

 

[auntpolly]

I think dude who started this topic is just trying to

Myst

Don't know about that but I sure got !!!

It's amazing how "not so fun" these threads can get in the "just for fun" section of the DIS boards. I'll take my responsibility for that.

But I think the main thing we all want in life is to just be respected and heard. Thinking that people are you and judging you, even if they don't say it to your face is unsettling.I'm sure that everyone here has something that they don't like strangers judging them over.

But strangers judge. I judge. I comment on things I don't like in restaurants all the time. It's not like I never left someone's home and didn't say to DH - "Can you believe how they....?" It's not my most attractive quality, and it's something I want to work on-- possible New Year's Resolution.

Anyway, I accept the fact that there are people who are going to call me some kind of showoff for praying or demonstrating my faith, and I'll try to remember how that feels having it done to me next time I'm out and ing someone else.

Aaaah, the life lessons you learn here!

 

[chobie]

Most of the non beleivers, including myself, said we are polite to our friends when we are in their house or ours while they say grace and would never insist, or even suggest, that our Christian friends don't say grace just because they are in our house. Oh, but its not enough to be polite, respectful and accomdodating.

If we even think that people who make a big show out of praying in public are anthing less than sincere it makes everyone upset.

Like some of you grace sayers have said, we shouldn't care what others think about us. So, don't care what I think about your public displays of religion and we'll all be happy.

 

[auntpolly]

Most of the non beleivers, including myself, said we are polite to our friends when we are in their house or ours while they say grace and would never insist, or even suggest, that our Christian friends don't say grace just because they are in our house. Oh, but its not enough to be polite, respectful and accomdodating.

If we even think that people who make a big show out of praying in public are anthing less than sincere it makes everyone upset.

Like some of you grace sayers have said, we shouldn't care what others think about us. So, don't care what I think about your public displays of religion and we'll all be happy.

So there's nothing you get annoyed about others judging you about in restaurants -- I guess you're more easygoing than I am.

 

[Nancyg56]

I am not a religious person either, and am not comfortable when I am expected to participate in saying grace. However, when I am in someone else's home I do sit quietly while others pray. I also bow my head, because very young children like to peek and point out the fact that my eyes are open!

My DGD who is 5 would do just that . She says she has to "keep an eye on the boys".

In my home we have a small blessing before the meal, my DGD likes the one she learned in school, so we use it. I would not make anyone feel uncomfortable in my home, and if I knew that there was a guest who prefered that we avoided the blessing, I would respect that. I would think it rude that someone simply went to the restroom. In anyone elses home, we follow their lead.

 

[orljustin]

I'm just curious. If you don't ever say Grace. and think it is hypocritical to say it at Thanksgiving dinner.......why the heck do you have Thanksgiving dinner? You do know what the "Thanks" in Thanksgiving is referring to don't you? Isn't it a meal to give thanks to God for what you have? (whatever you may call your God) I just think THAT is what is hypocritical. If you don't want to give thanks, then why have "Thanksgiving"? What's the point? You go to all that trouble just to eat Turkey?

It's a good day to get together with friends and family and reflect upon the good things we have and have achieved. That doesn't necessarily have anything to do with talking to a god.

 

[lovethattink]

I'm jumping on the band wagon late. I think it's rude to escape to the bathroom to avoid prayer in somebody else's house. Much more polite to just sit there quietly. In your own house, it's your rules. As for praying in public restaurants, it's easy to do without drawing attention to yourself. Of course there are a few who have to draw attention to themselves. We were at Pizza Hut last week and this lady was either hard of hearing or trying to draw attention to herself. She was with a large group at the table. They were all saying "God is great, God is good..." and she was saying it so loud it drew the attention of EVERYONE in the restaurant AND the kitchen. That, I am opposed to.

 

[caitycaity]

If you don't ever say Grace. and think it is hypocritical to say it at Thanksgiving dinner.......why the heck do you have Thanksgiving dinner? You do know what the "Thanks" in Thanksgiving is referring to don't you? Isn't it a meal to give thanks to God for what you have? (whatever you may call your God) I just think THAT is what is hypocritical. If you don't want to give thanks, then why have "Thanksgiving"? What's the point? You go to all that trouble just to eat Turkey?

Seems like every year this kind of topic comes up around tgiving. Thanksgiving is my favorite holiday of the whole year and obviously I am not giving thanks to any god. I believe that you can be thankful for what you have without believing in god. I do take a moment to reflect on how lucky I have been in life and how thankful I am for certain things every year on Thanksgiving. I don't think that is hypocritical. I think we all need reminders sometimes.

It seems like every year someone posts you can't be thankful unless you are thanking god. I disagree. I don't have to be thankful to anyone in particular to be happy and appreciate the things I have.

 

[noodleknitter]

Seems like every year this kind of topic comes up around tgiving. Thanksgiving is my favorite holiday of the whole year and obviously I am not giving thanks to any god. I believe that you can be thankful for what you have without believing in god. I do take a moment to reflect on how lucky I have been in life and how thankful I am for certain things every year on Thanksgiving. I don't think that is hypocritical. I think we all need reminders sometimes.

It seems like every year someone posts you can't be thankful unless you are thanking god. I disagree. I don't have to be thankful to anyone in particular to be happy and appreciate the things I have.

I have a host of family and friends who are not believers in God, but they are very thankful for the blessings in their lives! I can't even imagine someone calling this hypocritical!

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

It seems like every year someone posts you can't be thankful unless you are thanking god. I disagree. I don't have to be thankful to anyone in particular to be happy and appreciate the things I have.

That would make a good rebuttal everytime someone gripes about not receiving a thank you card.


"In lieu of a thank you note--we will be thanking God."

Just kidding of course--and while the holiday originated as that...the symbolism of being Thankful for what you have is there and most anyone can be thankful for something.

When we find the holiday listed in the holiday section of the Bible--then I will make note of that.

 

[mickeyfan2]

If you can be rude and leave the table at their house then they can be rude and say grace at you house.

 

[auntpolly]

I think you are just going to excuse that comment, because it's just the product of frustration, IMO.

We're just wondering at the same time how to avoid offending people and whether or not we should care if we do.

Much the same for other issues - there are plenty of things all of us would feel weirded out by if they thought everyone was judging them about it.

 

[caitycaity]

"In lieu of a thank you note--we will be thanking God."

bwahahahahahahahahaha! I know some people irl that just might try that.