SAHM Vent

[Stephaniesue]

never mind..

 

[quandrea]

I enjoy these discussions because, quite frankly, they are not discussions I can have in my daily life. Too charged. People get offended because they feel comments that run counter to their beliefs are judgements upon them. I'm one hundred percent at peace with my decision to stay home.

What I think is interesting is working parents' descriptions of how they make it all work. I know we will not turn back the clock on society, but it used to be that we didn't have to figure it all out. Someone was home to take care of home life and someone went out to work. Someone.was home if kids were sick or needed picking up. Someone was home to ferry family members to the doctor or a dog to the vet. Kids had the security knowing if the school called with news they were sick, mom would come get them. No flurry of figuring out what to do.

My mom stayed home and years later, my brother, now thirty, thanked her for always being there. He said the simple security of her being home was priceless.

I know we can't go back in time and I know it's good women have options other than being home, but I don't think we should ignore that with these choices came great cost and compromise to family life.

I have done extensive reading on the subject and don't have time to cite sources, but childhood depression is up, childhood anxiety is up, incidence of cutting is up, children are less attached to the Family unit and more to peer groups. Is it because no one is home anymore--kids included? We put so much stock in extracurricular activities but they have little influence on positive outcomes as adults. I wish we'd all spend more time at home, being a family. I think that would help so many people, adults and children feel more emotionally well.

AgAin, thanks for this thread. I really enjoy hashing out the topic and really considering my beliefs on it.

 

[Coonhound]

It's offensive when you say SAHM's make child care the utmost importance, like working mom's don't, even if they are delegating child care, it is of the "utmost importance" to them too. Also saying that because SAHM'S don't delegate child care they are the single most guiding influence in their life and working mom's are not. My mom worked all my life and she was and is the single most guiding influence in my life even though she worked and I stay at home. You are contributing to the very argument between SAHM'S and WOHM's and then saying I don't get it, what's offensive about that?!

Sometimes the truth feels offensive, but it's still the truth
Someone who makes being there for their child their first priority, and someone who leaves their child with someone else for many hours a day while doing a job so they can feel fulfilled as a person.
One puts the child first, the other puts their own wishes first.
I'm not talking about women who have no choice because they wouldn't be able to make ends meet if they didn't work. I'm talking about the women who decide child care is acceptable because they themselves don't want to stay home with their child because they need to be fulfilled by a career.

 

[kkmcan]

I have to say I didn't read the whole thread but I read a couple of pages.... I've been at home with my kids for 14 years with a short 2 year stint as a school aide in years 9-11. It was part time and paid like nothing and I wasn't very happy. I wanted my old life back. The one where everything made sense and I could handle my kids, home, husband, appts, chores etc. So I quit after 2 school years. I loved my life as a stay at home mom and I still do today even though my kids are teenagers now. It does seem that they need more than ever now. We had an endless summer of doctor, ortho, dentist apptments, senior photos, school registrations etc etc etc.

After selling on ebay for a number of years (which I love!!!) and I was making more at it then the aide job, I decided to take it on as a job and steady income. I opened an ebay store and threw myself into it and 3 years later its going great! And I still love it, and I get to stay at home.

DH and I never had an equal division of chores etc as he's been able to pursue his career as a firefighter(then engineer and now captain with Battalion chief in a few years hopefully) with me home all these years. And that's fine. That's how we decided to work it years ago so changing that up really threw a wrench in my expectations of him while I worked the aide job. Also I could never rely on him on weekends, holidays or nights because he doesn't have a 9-5 job.

I know people wonder what in the heck I do with myself all day long while my kids are in high school but personally I don't care. They can think we are dirt poor or they can think we have some massive inheritance or whatever. I really don't care anymore. I am happy, dh is happy and it works great for us. We have lived and saved on one income for so long its all I know and I'm so grateful for it every single day!

 

[luvsJack]

I never said it took away from the the role or responsibility of parents. In fact I think the exact opposite, but those working parents are delegating certain things, it is a fact, so why get offended by it when someone says you are. DH delegates a part of our lawn care to a service, doesnt make him any less in what he does for our house or make him any less in his role for the other parts of the yard. As SAHM parents we chose at this point in time NOT to delegate the carpool to someone else or the math help, but yes other things are delegated. But for some they say they do it all, and most times that isnt the case they do have help.



Once again I dont disagree with this, if the person you choose to help is a good influence even better for the child. It does not replace the parent, never said it did. It just means that some of us CHOSE to not delegate certain things for whatever reason. FOR ME, I want to be the one to help DS with math and monitor his other homework. But there could come a time, and there was that time, he needed a tutor. I welcomed that help.

But once again I dont get why people are offended when someone says they are delegating parts of childcare if they work, they are, it is a fact.

It is a fact. What is NOT a fact is that child care or the raising of our children isn't 100% as important to working mom as it is stay at home moms. Your post upthread insinuated that it was not as important to us.

 

[Miss Penny]

I dont recall saying that. And you are using a blanketed statement, that all working moms are doing it because they have to. That is not true, many are doing it because they want to.
.

O my gosh I confused you with another poster, Im so sorry. I was just trying to answer the question of what could be seen as offensive.
I was not making a blanket statement, but I think that statement could come across offensive to all working moms whether they work for need or want. The way I took that comment is that she feels that all moms have a choice, but that isn't always true.

 

[luvsJack]

Sometimes the truth feels offensive, but it's still the truth
Someone who makes being there for their child their first priority, and someone who leaves their child with someone else for many hours a day while doing a job so they can feel fulfilled as a person.
One puts the child first, the other puts their own wishes first.
I'm not talking about women who have no choice because they wouldn't be able to make ends meet if they didn't work. I'm talking about the women who decide child care is acceptable because they themselves don't want to stay home with their child because they need to be fulfilled by a career.

This is not true at all. For some women, working outside the home IS putting their child first. Perhaps they are making sure they can provide the best education for their child, or give their child opportunities they could not otherwise give. Or maybe they are the type of person that NEEDS the work and the socialization with adults to make them a happier and better parent.

Good, quality childcare is acceptable. There are many, many pros to having a child in child care and not home with mom all day. Kids with a sahm are not getting those pluses. Being at home with a parent is not the only way to properly raise a child.


There are many SAH "moms" who forget the "mom" part and are mostly just "stay at home". They shop all day or run the roads all day while they leave the child home with grandma or they tune out the kids while they watch soaps or stay on the computer. Should I paint all sahms with that brush? I mean turnabout is fair play and you seem to paint all working moms as selfish, bad parents.

 

[U2_rocks!]

Child rearing and child care are not the same thing, and I see many people using them interchangeably. Child rearing is the whole package, whereas child care is just the part of it that involves directly caring for the child. You can still rear a child and allow granny to look after the child on occasion, allow the child to go to school and learn from other adults, go and play soccer with other coaches. It's a matter of degree. As a working mom I do not take part in as much child care as a stay at home mom would, but I still choose who cares for my child according to my own values. Allowing my child to be at my parents' house is like having them with me (in terms of overall values and influence), except that I actually think my parents do several things better than I do. My mom has infinite patience, whereas I don't. My mom has taught them about things I am not really into myself (like flowers/plants, birds, family history etc.). I chose the nanny that looked after them when they were little very carefully, and in retrospect she was a great choice. If you choose people who do things they way you would or better, I don't see why it matters if it's you doing them or not. As long as your child gets enough of your time on evenings and weekends, what's a few hours after school in the grand scheme of things? Some child care may be delegated (which doesn't have to be a bad thing at all) but the child rearing is not.

 

[chicagodisneyfan]

Someone who makes being there for their child their first priority, and someone who leaves their child with someone else for many hours a day while doing a job so they can feel fulfilled as a person.
.

Do you homeschool? Or leave your children for many hours a day . . .

 

[Mkrop]

I think the offensive part was your comment about SAHMs decide that childcare is of the utmost importance. I don't know any working moms who don't feel that way either, but unfortunately they don't get a choice, they have to work so they find the very best option for their childcare needs. I guess your comment could come across as they just don't care as much as SAHMs because they have decided to work instead of stay home with their kids, and that can be seen as offensive.



That is how it is here too, we all help when we can. There are a few that do take advantage of my SAH status but I know they would be there for me if I ever needed help with my kids.

It's offensive when you say SAHM's make child care the utmost importance, like working mom's don't, even if they are delegating child care, it is of the "utmost importance" to them too. Also saying that because SAHM'S don't delegate child care they are the single most guiding influence in their life and working mom's are not. My mom worked all my life and she was and is the single most guiding influence in my life even though she worked and I stay at home. You are contributing to the very argument between SAHM'S and WOHM's and then saying I don't get it, what's offensive about that?!

Ok I am confused but two of you quoted me and I went back several pages and cant find where I said or used the term "utmost importance". I never said you werent the guiding inluence in your child's life EVER. But you ARE delegating certain aspects of it, that is a fact. If grandpa is the one picking the child up when he is sick at school, bc you are working than you are delegating that to him. It doesnt mean you are less caring about your sick child. I never ever said that. In MY house do to certain circumstances, that duty falls on me. If you hire a college kid to drive your kid to baseball practice bc you are working than you are delegating that. In MY house I do that, plain and simple. It works for us. I dont want to pay the money to hire someone, dont have GPs available and dont have a spouse always available at those times.

My questions still is why is it offensive to some (U2Rocks said she is perfectly comfortable with her delegations and put a lot of time into it, which is great) that it is pointed out that you are delagating parts of childcare for your kids. It is a fact. DS16 picked DS11 up from football practice for the first time last night. I delegated him for that role for that evening and that is perfectly fine. He actually loved it and he got to see his old coaches.

As another posted pointed out, we all delegate parts of childcare at some point with our kids. Some do it on a daily basis, and some like myself do it intermittently due to how our family and lifestyle works

 

[mom2rose&john]

This is not true at all. For some women, working outside the home IS putting their child first. Perhaps they are making sure they can provide the best education for their child, or give their child opportunities they could not otherwise give. Or maybe they are the type of person that NEEDS the work and the socialization with adults to make them a happier and better parent.

Good, quality childcare is acceptable. There are many, many pros to having a child in child care and not home with mom all day. Kids with a sahm are not getting those pluses. Being at home with a parent is not the only way to properly raise a child.


There are many SAH "moms" who forget the "mom" part and are mostly just "stay at home". They shop all day or run the roads all day while they leave the child home with grandma or they tune out the kids while they watch soaps or stay on the computer. Should I paint all sahms with that brush? I mean turnabout is fair play and you seem to paint all working moms as selfish, bad parents.

THANK YOU!! You have eloquently written what I feel and could not have said in such a manner. I am a full time working mother and have never put my career in front of raising and loving my children.

 

[Miss Penny]

Ok I am confused but two of you quoted me and I went back several pages and cant find where I said or used the term "utmost importance". I never said you werent the guiding inluence in your child's life EVER. But you ARE delegating certain aspects of it, that is a fact. If grandpa is the one picking the child up when he is sick at school, bc you are working than you are delegating that to him. It doesnt mean you are less caring about your sick child. I never ever said that. In MY house do to certain circumstances, that duty falls on me. If you hire a college kid to drive your kid to baseball practice bc you are working than you are delegating that. In MY house I do that, plain and simple. It works for us. I dont want to pay the money to hire someone, dont have GPs available and dont have a spouse always available at those times.

My questions still is why is it offensive to some (U2Rocks said she is perfectly comfortable with her delegations and put a lot of time into it, which is great) that it is pointed out that you are delagating parts of childcare for your kids. It is a fact. DS16 picked DS11 up from football practice for the first time last night. I delegated him for that role for that evening and that is perfectly fine. He actually loved it and he got to see his old coaches.

As another posted pointed out, we all delegate parts of childcare at some point with our kids. Some do it on a daily basis, and some like myself do it intermittently due to how our family and lifestyle works

I posted a few posts up that I confused you another poster. I'm sorry.

 

[Mkrop]

Child rearing and child care are not the same thing, and I see many people using them interchangeably. Child rearing is the whole package, whereas child care is just the part of it that involves directly caring for the child. You can still rear a child and allow granny to look after the child on occasion, allow the child to go to school and learn from other adults, go and play soccer with other coaches. It's a matter of degree. As a working mom I do not take part in as much child care as a stay at home mom would, but I still choose who cares for my child according to my own values. Allowing my child to be at my parents' house is like having them with me (in terms of overall values and influence), except that I actually think my parents do several things better than I do. My mom has infinite patience, whereas I don't. My mom has taught them about things I am not really into myself (like flowers/plants, birds, family history etc.). I chose the nanny that looked after them when they were little very carefully, and in retrospect she was a great choice. If you choose people who do things they way you would or better, I don't see why it matters if it's you doing them or not. As long as your child gets enough of your time on evenings and weekends, what's a few hours after school in the grand scheme of things? Some child care may be delegated (which doesn't have to be a bad thing at all) but the child rearing is not.

 

[Mkrop]

It is a fact. What is NOT a fact is that child care or the raising of our children isn't 100% as important to working mom as it is stay at home moms. Your post upthread insinuated that it was not as important to us.

Could you please point out to me where I implied this bc I think I am being misquoted or misunderstood?

 

[luvsJack]

Could you please point out to me where I implied this bc I think I am being misquoted or misunderstood?

Yeah, I think so too now. Sorry, it wasn't you that said that, it was Coonhound.

 

[Feckless]

Didn't read the whole thread because, well, my blood pressure. As a WOHM, I never had anyone else "raising" my children any more than teachers at school are "raising" the children of SAHMs. My mother always worked, and I never once felt neglected, unloved, or that anyone other than my parents were raising me. That is the gift that my mother gave me, and it is the gift that I am giving my daughter. She knows that if she wants children in the future and wants to stay working in whatever career she chooses, it can be done. Sure, there are compromises and sacrifices, but there are with all choices like this.

And I work and also was on the local equivalent of the PTA for 9 straight years. I did my fair share of volunteering and then some. It doesn't have to be left only to the SAHMs - that's not fair. I have a friend who was completely taken advantage of because she wasn't working - I would never do that, and always reciprocated. I farm out things like cleaning and yard work and maintenance to make more time for family stuff.

I also think there should be a true choice - excellent affordable childcare - for everyone. Then women who truly want to be SAHMs can do that, and those who really want to be WOHMs can do that as well.

We do what is right for our families. A good mommy is a happy mommy. As hard as it is, we should try not to judge.

 

[Mkrop]

I posted a few posts up that I confused you another poster. I'm sorry.

Yeah, I think so too now. Sorry, it wasn't you that said that, it was Coonhound.

Thanks I thought I was going crazy

 

[ZachnElli]

Ok I am confused but two of you quoted me and I went back several pages and cant find where I said or used the term "utmost importance". I never said you werent the guiding inluence in your child's life EVER. But you ARE delegating certain aspects of it, that is a fact. If grandpa is the one picking the child up when he is sick at school, bc you are working than you are delegating that to him. It doesnt mean you are less caring about your sick child. I never ever said that. In MY house do to certain circumstances, that duty falls on me. If you hire a college kid to drive your kid to baseball practice bc you are working than you are delegating that. In MY house I do that, plain and simple. It works for us. I dont want to pay the money to hire someone, dont have GPs available and dont have a spouse always available at those times.

My questions still is why is it offensive to some (U2Rocks said she is perfectly comfortable with her delegations and put a lot of time into it, which is great) that it is pointed out that you are delagating parts of childcare for your kids. It is a fact. DS16 picked DS11 up from football practice for the first time last night. I delegated him for that role for that evening and that is perfectly fine. He actually loved it and he got to see his old coaches.

As another posted pointed out, we all delegate parts of childcare at some point with our kids. Some do it on a daily basis, and some like myself do it intermittently due to how our family and lifestyle works

Post #139. I know you didn't say it, but you quoted it and said you didn't see why it was offensive. You bolded the whole thing. The "single guiding influence" and "utmost importance". If all you meant was the delegating part, then I agree, that's not offensive. I was a day care kid and my mom was and is the single most guiding influence in my life. I'm offended for my mom, she's awesome! She worked because she had to.

 

[mefordis]

In our neighborhood, they all rely on me to get their kids where they need to be, as far as sports and other daytime activities (at least the ones that are DD's friends).

Wow, so if your kid is sick or you are on vacation, they in trouble.

 

[JanaDee]

Wow, so if your kid is sick or you are on vacation, they in trouble.

Mainly during the summer but yes, some parents have had to scramble and been quite put out when I was unavailable for whatever reason.