Saddam Hussein -- U.S break Geneva Convention again

[noel]

Another good summary of SH's rise to power - ok I know most people here probably HATE Michael Moore and feel he is too one sided, but again - the man speaks the truth.

We Finally Got Our Frankenstein... and He Was In a Spider Hole! -- by Michael Moore


Thank God Saddam is finally back in American hands! He must have really missed us. Man, he sure looked bad! But, at least he got a free dental exam today. That's something most Americans can't get.

America used to like Saddam. We LOVED Saddam. We funded him. We armed him. We helped him gas Iranian troops.

But then he screwed up. He invaded the dictatorship of Kuwait and, in doing so, did the worst thing imaginable -- he threatened an even BETTER friend of ours: the dictatorship of Saudi Arabia, and its vast oil reserves. The Bushes and the Saudi royal family were and are close business partners, and Saddam, back in 1990, committed a royal blunder by getting a little too close to their wealthy holdings. Things went downhill for Saddam from there.

But it wasn't always that way. Saddam was our good friend and ally. We supported his regime. It wasn’t the first time we had helped a murderer. We liked playing Dr. Frankenstein. We created a lot of monsters -- the Shah of Iran, Somoza of Nicaragua, Pinochet of Chile -- and then we expressed ignorance or shock when they ran amok and massacred people. We liked Saddam because he was willing to fight the Ayatollah. So we made sure that he got billions of dollars to purchase weapons. Weapons of mass destruction. That's right, he had them. We should know -- we gave them to him!

We allowed and encouraged American corporations to do business with Saddam in the 1980s. That's how he got chemical and biological agents so he could use them in chemical and biological weapons. Here's the list of some of the stuff we sent him (according to a 1994 U.S. Senate report):
* Bacillus Anthracis, cause of anthrax.
* Clostridium Botulinum, a source of botulinum toxin.
* Histoplasma Capsulatam, cause of a disease attacking lungs, brain, spinal cord, and heart.
* Brucella Melitensis, a bacteria that can damage major organs.
* Clostridium Perfringens, a highly toxic bacteria causing systemic illness.
* Clostridium tetani, a highly toxigenic substance.

And here are some of the American corporations who helped to prop Saddam up by doing business with him: AT&T, Bechtel, Caterpillar, Dow Chemical, Dupont, Kodak, Hewlett-Packard, and IBM (for a full list of companies and descriptions of how they helped Saddam, click here.

We were so cozy with dear old Saddam that we decided to feed him satellite images so he could locate where the Iranian troops were. We pretty much knew how he would use the information, and sure enough, as soon as we sent him the spy photos, he gassed those troops. And we kept quiet. Because he was our friend, and the Iranians were the "enemy." A year after he first gassed the Iranians, we reestablished full diplomatic relations with him!

Later he gassed his own people, the Kurds. You would think that would force us to disassociate ourselves from him. Congress tried to impose economic sanctions on Saddam, but the Reagan White House quickly rejected that idea -- they wouldn’t let anything derail their good buddy Saddam. We had a virtual love fest with this Frankenstein whom we (in part) created.

And, just like the mythical Frankenstein, Saddam eventually spun out of control. He would no longer do what he was told by his master. Saddam had to be caught. And now that he has been brought back from the wilderness, perhaps he will have something to say about his creators. Maybe we can learn something... interesting. Maybe Don Rumsfeld could smile and shake Saddam's hand again. Just like he did when he went to see him in 1983 (click here to see the photo).

Maybe we never would have been in the situation we're in if Rumsfeld, Bush, Sr., and company hadn't been so excited back in the 80s about their friendly monster in the desert.

Meanwhile, anybody know where the guy is who killed 3,000 people on 9/11? Our other Frankenstein?? Maybe he's in a mouse hole.

So many of our little monsters, so little time before the next election.

Stay strong, Democratic candidates. Quit sounding like a bunch of wusses. These *******s sent us to war on a lie, the killing will not stop, the Arab world hates us with a passion, and we will pay for this out of our pockets for years to come. Nothing that happened today (or in the past 9 months) has made us ONE BIT safer in our post-9/11 world. Saddam was never a threat to our national security.

Only our desire to play Dr. Frankenstein dooms us all.

Yours,

Michael Moore
www.michaelmoore.com

 

[Yzma and Kronk]

jj - it was Saddam Hussein's failure to meet UN requirements on disarmament. The US (and others) were tired of the UN giving so many chances (see article) If you believe the war was started because the media spun all this into:

Originally posted by jjcollins
thats all we heard day in day out -- he'll use them in 45 mins he's near to making a atom bomb - it was all spoof to get us into the war. Not a thing found lol
jj....... [/B]

that's your prerogative.......I just don't believe everything I see on TV or read in print or on the Net (even outside the DIS boards)

Also:

QUOTE: U.S.A The police of the world -- well countries they think they can win in lol UNQUOTE

Well, if someone's got to do it......then it might as well be the US!

 

[Teejay32]

Originally posted by noel
Another good summary of SH's rise to power - ok I know most people here probably HATE Michael Moore and feel he is too one sided, but again - the man speaks the truth.

That's laughable. He's not "one-sided", he's a one-man marching band for the Tinfoil Hat society.

If he's a reputable source, then so is Ann Coulter.

 

[6_Time_Momma]

Kismetdreams try reading it again slowly

(a) That of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;

jj....that is a description of 1 out of 4 reauirements that a MILITIA must meet. It does not refer to one certain individual. And, as kismet pointed out....ALL 4 qualifications MUST be met by that militia. I am not sure why you think it refers to the country's president.

It is saying that the MILITIA must be commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates.

 

[jjcollins]

Thanks Noel -- wonder what friends of G/B will get the contracts to re-build IRAQ - As leader of the armed forces Saddam is classed as a prisoner of war -

Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces.



jj.........

 

[snoopy]

Wow, this thread has been interesting to read.

I really don't care who put Sadaam in power, I'm just glad he was caught. I'm not a huge fan of the Bush family, particularly Senior, but if he was the president that empowered him, then so be it. That doesn't mean our error shouldn't be corrected. He's an evil dictator that has killed many people (including CHILDREN) already, he doesn't regret that he did it, there's no evidence he meant to change his patterns. Just because there are evil dicators all over the world that we haven't gone in after, doesn't take away from the fact that this one is now out of commission. I see it as a win win for all the free world.

 

[DawnCt]

Originally posted by noel
We Finally Got Our Frankenstein... and He Was In a Spider Hole! -- by Michael Moore

* Bacillus Anthracis, cause of anthrax.
* Clostridium Botulinum, a source of botulinum toxin.
* Histoplasma Capsulatam, cause of a disease attacking lungs, brain, spinal cord, and heart.
* Brucella Melitensis, a bacteria that can damage major organs.
* Clostridium Perfringens, a highly toxic bacteria causing systemic illness.
* Clostridium tetani, a highly toxigenic substance.

And here are some of the American corporations who helped to prop Saddam up by doing business with him: AT&T, Bechtel, Caterpillar, Dow Chemical, Dupont, Kodak, Hewlett-Packard, and IBM (for a full list of companies and descriptions of how they helped Saddam, click here.

[/url]

And Saddam wouldn't have had those "bugs" if they weren't supplied? Your kidding right? Cutaneous anthrax is endemic in that part of the world. He could go dig in the dirt. Brucellosis is rabbit fever. If you want Clostridium Botulinum, culture a damaged can of can tomatos, the can that is bulging. If you want the toxin, call your plastic surgeon for botox injections. Clostridium Perfringens? It is the pathogen that is most common in gangrene. Clostridium tetani? Why do you think you get a tetanut toxoid booster every ten years? Its in your own back yard.
Any college laboratory could have ordered these pathogens through the mail for the purpose of research.

This is just more drivel from the "hate America first" crowd. During the Carter administration, Iran was holding American hostages for more than a year. A fanatical, tyrannical regime was coming to power in Iran. Countries develop alliances for their own security. At the time he was the least of several evils but in the black and white world of liberals, if we alligned with him once I guess we must stay fused at the hip forever.

 

[MickeyTake]

JJ's original post accused the US of breaking the Geneva Convention, the thread seems to have side tracked from that.

The convention has been quoted several times and from what I can see then YES the US has broken the rules.

is it right for these rules to be broken.. well NO, if the rules are there then they are there, full stop.

No one disputes the reason why and the majority would support the video being shown. But at the end of the day it seems that the rules of the convention have been broken.

Is it important? well looking at it from the point of view of SH being a bad person and looking at what has occurred under his regime it would seem not. But then if we take that attitude what other parts of the Geneva convention should we ignore when it suits us. just a rambling thought!!

 

[macs4us]

Originally posted by Teejay32
ummm.....no. I think a three-day national holiday has been declared. (Seriously!) Better check that "report" again.

Ummmm - that report was at 10PM last night - Newsweek and Time reporters in Iraq. Would like a link to info about the three day national holiday, and how people without phones, electricity, water, etc, living in a vast desert, all have info of what transpired within 24 hours. There are some people in Iraq who are in mourning about this as well, as a matter of national pride. With Saddam in custody, I hope our troops can just get these poor people basic utilities again soon.

 

[DawnCt]

Originally posted by jjcollins
Thanks Noel -- wonder what friends of G/B will get the contracts to re-build IRAQ - As leader of the armed forces Saddam is classed as a prisoner of war -

Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces.



jj.........

I find it so touching that you have so much compassion for Saddam and his sense of dignity and privacy. Now tell me how you feel about his one million victims?

 

[jjcollins]

Well said MickeyTake i'm glad someone can read the rules.

But then if we take that attitude what other parts of the Geneva convention should we ignore when it suits us.

I think that says it all -- well said



jj.......

 

[elisebutt]

Sorry , just had to butt in here.
First off, I don't hate the USA, I love to visit and although many americans I have met seem to be very insular, they are on the whole, quite nice people.

It just gets my back up that the Govt seem to have appointed themselves the role of world policemen. I was watching some of the newsbites last nights with some senators etc demanding tht Saddam be tried and summarily executed??????

Ummm - who made them judge, jury and executioner?

Just what is going to happen to Saddam now? I am all for a trial such as those held at Nuremburg, with the UN running the show, but not if the US demand that everything goes their way. And what happens when he is found guilty - are we going to all be treated to the spectacle of a public execution - just so that we all know he is dead?

And why is he being held for interrogation by the CIA??? Why aren't the UN involved as observers or the Brits, after all we are supposed to be allies?

Just a few things I've been pondering.

Happy Xmas.

 

[DawnCt]

Originally posted by elisebutt
It just gets my back up that the Govt seem to have appointed themselves the role of world policemen. I was watching some of the newsbites last nights with some senators etc demanding tht Saddam be tried and summarily executed??????

When the UN doesn't step up to the plate, then the role of the world's policeman often falls to the world's superpower. We have freedom of speech in this country. Senators are free to demand whatever they want. It doesn't mean they will get it. They are voicing their opinions. He should be tried in Iraq as a war criminal.....and then be executed. (Unless you happen to think he isn't guilty?)

 

[jjcollins]

Here Super hero's why don't you jump ito North Korean or China - Zimbabwe - Burma



Maybe theres no OIL there --



jj.......

 

[Serena]

.

 

[DawnCt]

Originally posted by jjcollins
Here Super hero's why don't you jump ito North Korean or China - Zimbabwe - Burma



Maybe theres no OIL there --



jj.......

Where is the UN? Oops, I forgot, they pulled out of Iraq and are hiding on the edges of Syria.

 

[JDY]

Originally posted by DawnCt
When the UN doesn't step up to the plate, then the role of the world's policeman often falls to the world's superpower.

Give me a break. The UN was doing its job. We butted in and still haven't found what we said was there. Don't forget - we didn't invade Iraq because Saddam was a bad man who has killed thousands of people! We went because W said that Iraq had WMD and was a threat to our national security. LIE! Much worse than lying about having sex with an intern

I'm glad Saddam is gone! He was a horrible person.

However, never forget that Bush Lied and Soldiers Died (and innocent men, women, children...)

 

[jjcollins]

I think the whole thing was about controling the OIL


JJ........

 

[Mskanga]

Is it just me or is the U.S a law onto themselves once again they just rip up international laws and do what ever they like. The parading of Saddam Hussein on TV is a clear breach of the Geneva Convention and the U.S must be brought to book over this.

I bet you anything you wouldn't be saying this if Saddam had killed one of your loved ones. Or are you going to tell me that if someone killed any of your relatives , you wouldn't want the parading on TV? Heck I would want the entire world to see his face and let them know what he did! If that is a violation of the Geneva Convention , then I guess it needs to be updated, doesn't it?

 

[MJames41]

Originally posted by JDY
Give me a break. The UN was doing its job. We butted in and still haven't found what we said was there.

And the UN inspector couldn't find anything either - even after missles that he wasn't supposed to have (conventional) were used against us in the war. How could they be doing their job when they didn't have a clue as to what they were looking for?

Originally posted by JDY
Don't forget - we didn't invade Iraq because Saddam was a bad man who has killed thousands of people! We went because W said that Iraq had WMD and was a threat to our national security. LIE! Much worse than lying about having sex with an intern

Um, actually one of the reasons was because Saddam wa a bad man who has killed thousands of his people. And, the lie to say was from W started with the previous president. Or is it your contention that he also lied about that?

Originally posted by JDY
I'm glad Saddam is gone! He was a horrible person.

However, never forget that Bush Lied and Soldiers Died (and innocent men, women, children...)

Oh yes, so many innocents died from the war. Hussein was killing, on average based on UN estimates, 50,000 per year, of which 2/3 were children. This does not include the 300,000 who have been found in mass graves to date. This makes the total closer to 65,000 so far. The highest estimate I have seen so far for civilians dead due to the war is around 10,000, and that is a controversial number.

Oh, and jj, you are right - the war was about the oil. French control of the oil. That is why they guaranteed Hussein their would be no invasion, they would stop us.

And, war criminals are not protected by the Geneva convention. War criminals are criminals, period.