Saddam Hussein execution botched?

[cardaway]

With all due respect, transparent, I often see you take this line of debate. I'd appreciate a few examples of how they feel they've helped, other than the obligatory "building schools and hugging babies" that we hear so much about in the media. I also walk through VA Medical Centers, nationwide, at least once a week, as my company does a ton of work with the Veterans' Administration and I am saddened to see so many young people being treated for blindness, lost limbs, and other debilitating injuries stemming from the Iraqi conflict. I get a mixed bag of opinions, both good and bad. Some say we've helped, some say we haven't.

She doesn't like to admit there are veterans who disagree with the war and feel the same way as many of us that disagree with her. Somehow her place is only populated with supporters.

 

[Laugh O. Grams]

Neither. Par for the course. All this hoopla about how things will get worse is silly. They took every opportunity they had to kill us before and will continue to do so. Nothing new there.

And if they hadn't chanted, Sadaam's loyal killers would still have been pissed off about him being killed. Too bad.

I'm not at all surprised that people who hated Sadaam said mean things to him. I can't believe anyone is! I mean, I do believe you all are surprised, I just don't know why.

Hating and killing each other is what these folks do. I don't see that changing. I've never thought that we were going to establish peace in the middle east.

Iraq isn't my big worry. They're done. They can now run around declaring jihads on each other (and us), call each other goats, and fight with each other. Hookairs.

Iran is my worry. But I think Israel may take care of Iran.

Par for the course?!?! Man, you've got an extremely low expectation for this fight for Democracy that we've gotten ourselves into!! When this war started, every Conservative on this board agreed that if Iraq becomes an Islamic Shiite State that all the work we put into this war would be for nothing, and yet when it appears to be happening, all you say is "Par for the course"...I just don't get it?

And to add, it's not that they shouted at Saddam that is important, it's that they're chanting the name of the cleric who's in charge of the Shia militia...

 

[cardaway]

Who exactly is making their own form of democray with our help? The supporters of Saddam? The Shia militias?

There are two sides here. They are trying to kill each other. And us.

Why is helping either side worth the lives of our troops?

Exactly.

 

[tekmom]

Par for the course?!?! Man, you've got an extremely low expectation for this fight for Democracy that we've gotten ourselves into!! When this war started, every Conservative on this board agreed that if Iraq becomes an Islamic Shiite State that all the work we put into this war would be for nothing, and yet when it appears to be happening, all you say is "Par for the course"...I just don't get it?

And to add, it's not that they shouted at Saddam that is important, it's that they're chanting the name of the cleric who's in charge of the Shia militia...

Exactly. Imagine, if freedom and democracy were what they craved, shouldn't they have shouted, "Freedom! Democracy!" The country that was Iraq has been officially served up on a silver platter to Iran.

 

[Cool-Beans]

I worked for the VA for a short time. I was in a long-term section, old guys, not with young vets home from the war. Sometimes the more able young guys would come over to talk with or help the older ones - giving both something to do! There wasn't one guy - seriously, not ONE - who ever slammed America, or said anything bad about this war, or even hinted that they might wish to see anything but death and misery come to the Sadaams and Bin Ladens of the world.

They had nothing but bitter contempt for those guys.

If even one guy had ever said anything of the sort, I'd say so. Honestly. They didn't.

I still go visit once in a while. Don't usually talk about the war, but when it comes up, I never hear comments that in any way support, feel sorry for, or even consider the feelings of Sadaam and his bunch. Seriously.

 

[Galahad]

I don't know that it really matters how many vets support or don't support the war. (DW is a vet who would still go over if they would take her - and my nephew, the new Marine, is anxious to go (much to my sister's dismay)). What doesn't make sense is how much energy we put into making sure the war is "viewed" the way we want it viewed rather than putting energy into resolving the problems. Not just "ending the war" but solving the problems. We are still spending way too much time positioning.

 

[Laugh O. Grams]

I worked for the VA for a short time. I was in a long-term section, old guys, not with young vets home from the war. Sometimes the more able young guys would come over to talk with or help the older ones - giving both something to do! There wasn't one guy - seriously, not ONE - who ever slammed America, or said anything bad about this war, or even hinted that they might wish to see anything but death and misery come to the Sadaams and Bin Ladens of the world.

They had nothing but bitter contempt for those guys.

If even one guy had ever said anything of the sort, I'd say so. Honestly. They didn't.

I still go visit once in a while. Don't usually talk about the war, but when it comes up, I never hear comments that in any way support, feel sorry for, or even consider the feelings of Sadaam and his bunch. Seriously.

I never said that any vet that I have spoken with ever said they "support, feel sorry for, or even consider the feelings of Sadaam and his bunch"...but they do question the way this war is going and the leadership that came up with the original plan.

 

[Cool-Beans]

Par for the course?!?! Man, you've got an extremely low expectation for this fight for Democracy that we've gotten ourselves into!! When this war started, every Conservative on this board agreed that if Iraq becomes an Islamic Shiite State that all the work we put into this war would be for nothing, and yet when it appears to be happening, all you say is "Par for the course"...I just don't get it?

And to add, it's not that they shouted at Saddam that is important, it's that they're chanting the name of the cleric who's in charge of the Shia militia...

Who cares what they chanted? Killing him is the big deal, not what was said.

Like I already said, I don't think we'll be establishing peace in the middle east. They like killing each other too much. How are we going stop them?

And I'm not a conservative in the sense of being a Republican. Not onel of those folks who says whatever one political party says. I could be called a Democrat as easily as a Republican...neither group will have me. Obi Wan Pinobi posted a quiz and it said I was a libertarian, which I'm fine with.

 

[cardaway]

What doesn't make sense is how much energy we put into making sure the war is "viewed" the way we want it viewed rather than putting energy into resolving the problems. Not just "ending the war" but solving the problems. We are still spending way too much time positioning.

Maybe if so many didn't accuse the people who want to solve the problems of being terrorist supporters, things might be different.

I see things getting better though. I think very few will be able to deny that the only way to solve the problems is to get the hell out.

 

[Laugh O. Grams]

Like I already said, I don't think we'll be establishing peace in the middle east. They like killing each other too much. How are we going stop them?

So what the heck are we doing over there?!? Why not lets stop the farce and get our soldiers home now! The chanting for Muqtada al-Sadr during the execution is a good barometer of what's really going on over there.

 

[Cool-Beans]

I never said that any vet that I have spoken with ever said they "support, feel sorry for, or even consider the feelings of Sadaam and his bunch"...but they do question the way this war is going and the leadership that came up with the original plan.

I believe you! I'm just saying that I haven't, so it is entirely possible that transparent hasn't, either.

The only questioning I hear the vets do is along the lines of, "Why don't they kill more people?" Not a verbatim quote there. But this is: "The world just hasn't changed that much. 50 years ago we were running around chasing Hitler and now we're running around chasing that a******. The world just doesn't change much. I'll buy you a coke if you push me down to the machine. (The head nurse) hates it when you push me, so let's ride by there and raise some hell." Started off all philosophical and ended up looking on the bright side. Typical vet stuff.

They also had wheelchair races down the hall, which drove the head nurse bonkers worrying about getting sued. I was like, "Let them have their fun." We didn't work too well together.

The only reason I can think of for us to hang around in Iraq is because we promised that we would. We did it in 1990 (or thereabout) and then left...then this time we said, "No, really. This time we mean it. We won't leave you to those guys again. Work with us! We're staying!" That was a dumb thing to do, 'cause now we have to stay. I don't think they'll ever, ever start liking each other. No peace in the middle east is my prediction. (But I would LOVE to be proven wrong.)

I have nothing left to say and leave you all to the fight.

 

[Galahad]

Maybe if so many didn't accuse the people who want to solve the problems of being terrorist supporters, things might be different.

I see things getting better though. I think very few will be able to deny that the only way to solve the problems is to get the hell out.

I guess I still fall into that latter category (that just getting out doesn't solve the problem) but I guess my point was that we can still debate that without dredging up the "you're with the terrorists" vs. "Bush is a stupid Hitler" thing these discussions always degenerate into.

 

[transparant]

With all due respect, transparent, I often see you take this line of debate. I'd appreciate a few examples of how they feel they've helped, other than the obligatory "building schools and hugging babies" that we hear so much about in the media. I also walk through VA Medical Centers, nationwide, at least once a week, as my company does a ton of work with the Veterans' Administration and I am saddened to see so many young people being treated for blindness, lost limbs, and other debilitating injuries stemming from the Iraqi conflict. I get a mixed bag of opinions, both good and bad. Some say we've helped, some say we haven't.

A few examples? I've got a lot more than a few. How about an Army Nat. Guardsman that was severely injured while he and his men captured/killed more than 50 terrorists - and discovered and a whole slew of roadside bombs and dismantled them before innocent Iraqi's started their day?

Or how about the many soldiers that believe that they are fighting terrorism - and are volunteering to be on the front lines - one of which is my very own next door neighbor who will be deployed in 4 months - and wants to be on the front lines of combat - because he believes he is doing something good?

I could go on - are these cases sufficient enough? Or just because I said it - it doesn't make it true? I have nothing to lie about - these stories are very true. In fact - I left out much of the first story because so much more of what this soldier did - is almost to good to be true - and I know how some of you like to discredit what I have to say. Plus - I don't feel I have to validate these servicemen's feelings and beliefs.

I'm about to say something that will tick a lot of you off - I know because it has happened in the past. But - I work with our troops every single day.
I hear heart wrenching stories about their injuries and how they were injured. And most still believe that what they did or are doing is a good thing.

I spend countless hours driving down to WRAMC to help them in many ways - sometimes just being a shoulder for them or a family member to lean on. And caradaway - fyi - I have run into a few soldiers who aren't happy about being there. I have never claimed that they ALL are for this war. Please don't put words in my mouth in the future. However - the overwhelming majority is proud of what they are doing. Proud of their fellow soldiers, proud of their family members back home and how they have handled their deployments.

I do get to interact with our troops way more than the average individual. I hear many, many incredible, amazing and fantastic stories of what they have done and are doing straight from them. They are proud of themsleves for what they are doing over there. I am proud of them too.

So before any of you jump all over my back like the very predictable few of you always do - let me just say that I am NOT bragging or talking about myself or what I do. Lets just clarify that from the beggining. I am talking about our troops and all the good that they have done and that they believe they are doing.

 

[transparant]

I believe you! I'm just saying that I haven't, so it is entirely possible that transparent hasn't, either.

The only questioning I hear the vets do is along the lines of, "Why don't they kill more people?" Not a verbatim quote there. But this is: "The world just hasn't changed that much. 50 years ago we were running around chasing Hitler and now we're running around chasing that a******. The world just doesn't change much. I'll buy you a coke if you push me down to the machine. (The head nurse) hates it when you push me, so let's ride by there and raise some hell." Started off all philosophical and ended up looking on the bright side. Typical vet stuff.

They also had wheelchair races down the hall, which drove the head nurse bonkers worrying about getting sued. I was like, "Let them have their fun." We didn't work too well together.

The only reason I can think of for us to hang around in Iraq is because we promised that we would. We did it in 1990 (or thereabout) and then left...then this time we said, "No, really. This time we mean it. We won't leave you to those guys again. Work with us! We're staying!" That was a dumb thing to do, 'cause now we have to stay. I don't think they'll ever, ever start liking each other. No peace in the middle east is my prediction. (But I would LOVE to be proven wrong.)

I have nothing left to say and leave you all to the fight.

Actually I have. I never claimed that I haven't. Some people like to put words in my mouth. But like you - the number one complaint that I hear every single day are that they are sick of fighting a PC war.

 

[cardaway]

fyi - I have run into a few soldiers who aren't happy about being there. I have never claimed that they ALL are for this war.

I would never put words in your mouth, just calling you on your obvious attempts to slant the situation every chance you get. Just calling you on it, plain and simple.

This was your most recent post trying to portray the entire hospital as being for the war. If nobody ever called you on it I doubt you would ever give credit to the folks who also served, but disagree with you on almost every point. In my book that is hardly supporting the troops.

Funny - last I talked with our troops (which is everyday)- both wounded AND deployed, they believe they have helped. I'm proud to say that I happen to believe them.

 

[Charade]

I would never put words in your mouth, just calling you on your obvious attempts to slant the situation every chance you get. Just calling you on it, plain and simple.

This was your most recent post trying to portray the entire hospital as being for the war. If nobody ever called you on it I doubt you would ever give credit to the folks who also served, but disagree with you on almost every point. In my book that is hardly supporting the troops.

But if we didn't have the reports from people like transparent, and only listened to the major news outlets, one could conclude that it's all doom and gloom over there. Is that not the same "one sided slant" attempt that you are accusing her of?

 

[cardaway]

But if we didn't have the reports from people like transparent, and only listened to the major news outlets, one could conclude that it's all doom and gloom over there. Is that not the same "one sided slant" attempt that you are accusing her of?

Is Fox not a major news outlet?

If I was tranparent the last thing I would want to be compared to would be one of the slanted news outlets, but yeah, IMO she is just like them.

Of course I see you calling out the media on that all the time.

 

[Laugh O. Grams]

But if we didn't have the reports from people like transparent, and only listened to the major news outlets, one could conclude that it's all doom and gloom over there. Is that not the same "one sided slant" attempt that you are accusing her of?

Alright, enough already...back to the OP.

Charade, you're one of the conservative's who I was talking about that would be disappointed if Iraq turned into a Islamic State run by Shia cleric/Ayatollah. How do you feel about the crowd, many of them directly linked to the new Iraqi government, chanting the name of Muqtada al-Sadr? You can't possibly feel encouraged by the display, can you?

 

[ButchJohnson]

I actually posted this in another thread but in case some of you guys missed this thought it was worth repeating here.

After there were reports that Saddam's final words were directed to his guards who were reportedly taunting him and telling him where he was headed (the nether region) and him essentially saying the same thing back, reports are now from interpreters that this was actually not what he said.

If you listen very carefully just before the noose is tightened and the trap door is sprung causing the one time omnipotent dictator Saddam to fall to his timely death, you can clearly hear him shouting "How 'bout dem Cowboys!"

Apparently he had just gotten word that despite a rather dismal showing in December the Dallas Cowboys had indeed clinched a playoff berth. Despite the fact that they essentially squeaked in, apparently Saddam was not concerned at the lack luster performance against December opponents and was just thrilled to see the Boys make it to the post-season.

He went on to babble something about Tony Romo and the Tuna, but was squelched out by the noose soon thereafter, thus the dictators advice to the Tuna regarding how to handle the 2007 post-season was lost forever.

 

[cardaway]

Alright, enough already...back to the OP.

Don't mind me, just laughing given the number of times people could reply the same way to your posts.