Sad Story from One Who Trusted without Checking!

[calypso*a*go-go]

I'm curious, how do you recognize that two different user names are the same person?

Because she slipped up and posted to a thread under one username, and then immediately followed it almost word-for-word with a second post logging in under her original username (or whatever the "identity du jour" was).

 

[disneykidatheart]

This whole thread is pretty disheartening. What seemed to be a good thing (renting points to complete vacations) is becoming fraught with mistrust and, in some cases, it should be.

And it will continue to happen. Many people find the DIS boards, get excited reading posts and learning about all things Disney and the R/T board as an option to make their dreams come true. But I think some get caught up too quickly in the excitement of the moment and don't take proper vigilance when renting those points.

There is a rental option on the R/T board right now. The renter has been a member for several years and has a respectable number of posts. I have no reason to believe there is a problem with the renter. It is the potential rentee whose actions I wonder about. She first contacts the renter and says she is desperate for only 50 points and wonders if the renter will rent fewer than advertised. Two days later she contacts the renter again and now says that she thinks she has been scammed for $250 and it is being looked into and now she is really desperate for 50 points. Hello!

The potential rentee has 9 posts. Maybe she has lurked for a period of time or maybe she is brand new to the boards. But wouldn't you think if you suspect you have been scammed you wouldn't jump back into the fire before the problem is resolved? I love staying onsite at Disney but there are plenty of nearby hotels available to complete those vacation plans. I can live without staying onsite if necessary, and do on occasion (though I admit it is hard).

We cannot let ourselves get caught up in the magic to a point where our common sense goes out the window.

I am so sorry for Dani and Stacy. Rentals seem to have been going so smoothly for a long time that you didn't have a reason to worry about renting. But your unfortunate experiences have to be a wake up call for the rest of us to be very careful in the future! My opinion, for what it's worth.

 

[DVC Daisy]

You missed my edit about the mods checking the posts ...

Of course it isn't fool (or scam) proof. But it will slow down the casual scammers. Too many hoops fto jump through makes a scammer go find easier pickin's elsewhere.

This is going to sound harsh and I have been flamed for this opinion before, but here goes ... As for the honest newbies who wish to post posts for rent: too bad. I think the R/T board is a great idea but I think that it should be for members of the DIS Community. Not for someone who wants to dump his/her points. There are other places for that. I would like to see a restriction on those who want to rent out their points, but not those who want to rent for a vacation.

But, but, but.........what about "lurkers"? There are people out there who do not post much but read the DIS boards every day! Are they not part of the community? What about someone who is a "shy" poster and has read here for years but only post occasionally, vs. someone who joined 6 months ago and chats up a storm? Who is "really" more a part of the community?

 

[InstImpres]

Sure, but one of the points you guys are missing here is that there is no way to tell whether someone is an owner or not. Look at LisaS's post above. She's an owner, but her husband's name (different from hers) appears on many DVC records.

I have a similar situation. My two adult daughters are equal co-owners of the account, but my name alone appears on the confirmations. They have the same ownership rights I have, they have every legal right to do rentals, but the DVC computer spits everything out in my name.

Without going through the legal process of subpoening records, nobody would have any way to know whether my daughters were okay or bogus.

Unless things have changed (and I am not on the computer right now with the bookmarked site), DVC Deeds are searchable on line with the Orange County office of something. (sorry, can't remember the official name). Therefore, if Lisa was to rent or your daughters, a search of that site would prove that at least you own. Maybe that website could be added to the FAQ thread.

Just a thought

 

[JimMIA]

So now the PP is getting "smarter" and asking for money orders instead of Western Union (jamackin's post) to eliminate one red flag.

Yep. Any system you set up will be defeated by someone determined to commit a crime. That's not to say protections shouldn't be built in where they make sense, but controls are not the answer.

And the other real lesson there is that it was jamackin's due diligence that protected her -- not her faith in "red flags" or control systems. She researched things sensibly, didn't feel comfortable, and walked away.

Walking away is a much better protection than just about any control systems the DIS, or eBay, or anyone else can build.

PP says she actually owns the points but they are in the aunt's name. Not sure why that would be.

That would be because she's lying.

 

[Chuck S]

Here is the deed search link Orange County Deed Search

 

[Santa]

I have been a member since 1999. In 7 years I have only posted a little over 300. I must be up to no good.

But, but, but.........what about "lurkers"? There are people out there who do not post much but read the DIS boards every day! Are they not part of the community? What about someone who is a "shy" poster and has read here for years but only post occasionally, vs. someone who joined 6 months ago and chats up a storm? Who is "really" more a part of the community?

 

[InstImpres]

Here is the deed search link Orange County Deed Search

Thanks for the link Chuck. Doesn't it figure, I make the recommendation only to find out the search doesn't work for hypenated names!! Glad I tried it first, so I would know what to tell people.

FYI for anyone else who is hyphenated, the search works only on the second last name

 

[DVC Daisy]

I have been a member since 1999. In 7 years I have only posted a little over 300. I must be up to no good.

Santa -

That was exactly my point! As there are many, many others out there just like you & I Are we troublemakers?

BTW- my very first post (another user name - it was dorky - in 1999!) was in response to a rent/trade add with a WOMAN WHO LIVES IN NY! She also posts quite a bit - but mostly on political threads! So, she and I would both seem like risky ones to do business with with all of the qualifications posted above. We "traded" reservations and both went off with out a hitch! Painless!

 

[robinb]

So now the PP is getting "smarter" and asking for money orders instead of Western Union (jamackin's post) to eliminate one red flag. I also wonder how many other people have been scammed but are hesitant to post because of feeling like a fool. I'm sure it is a very small amount, but still the number of deals gone bad may be a few more than we all originally thought.

Well ... I'm still not 100% sure that the PP is trying to scam jamackin. She said that she had to re-rent the points before she could return the OP's money. I'm sure that was her attempt. So jamackin's "due diligence" may have denied the OP her refund. The problem is that without the PP contacting the first two buyers or coming here to state her case, all we can do is make up scenarios in our minds.

 

[robinb]

But, but, but.........what about "lurkers"? There are people out there who do not post much but read the DIS boards every day! Are they not part of the community? What about someone who is a "shy" poster and has read here for years but only post occasionally, vs. someone who joined 6 months ago and chats up a storm? Who is "really" more a part of the community?

IMO, a lurker is not part of an online community. They are an outsider looking in. Especially in a community where information is shared. They read and take and do not give back. Like I said before: "Too bad".

 

[DVC_Couple_PA]

Thanks for the link Chuck. Doesn't it figure, I make the recommendation only to find out the search doesn't work for hypenated names!! Glad I tried it first, so I would know what to tell people.

FYI for anyone else who is hyphenated, the search works only on the second last name

Also it would not work for anyone that owns at VB or HH as they are not in Orange County.

 

[jodifla]

To me, these very sad stories answer the age-old question of why Disney points rent for $10 instead of the $12 or $15 a few members are constantly agitating for.

The risk factor is HUGE, so people need to feel there is a great deal involved in order to take that risk.

What happend to Dani and Sandi is unconscionable. It's despicable. And the risk of it happening to any renter is what keeps rental prices lower than what they might be otherwise.

 

[JimMIA]

Also it would not work for anyone that owns at VB or HH as they are not in Orange County.

Vero is in Indian River County. In Florida, property records are usually found in the county Tax Assessors or Tax Collectors (or both) section of the county website.

Orange County must be organized a little different, because I think Orange County is in the Comptroller's office.

There is also a real property search through state government, but I've found it pretty unreliable so I won't post the link. Property records are maintained at the county level in Florida, so the county sites will always be the most current and accurate.

 

[brasey]

The link to the actual records is a deffinite plus to put a sticky on. I checked my self out just now and it would be a nice extra tool for a renter to verify info. It has the deeded legal names, resort, amount of points and use year.

 

[Sammie]

This is not a response to anyone in particular and Dani and Stacey were brave to come forward and bare their souls to everyone. I wish them both luck in sucessful resolution.

What has amazed me most about this situation is how trusting many of you are and how surprised you act this happened.

Obviously most of you have been very lucky and never gotten scammed. It happens all the time, hourly. If you want a quick lesson go to Phatcampus.com and buy a book from them. Very impressive website, accepts Credit Cards, Verisign locked for security and they will charge your credit card immediately and send your email confirmation with order number and you will never see your book or your money again and they have done it to many others. My only recourse was my credit card company reversed the charges for me. Only because I deal with a good company. Do a search for reviews on this company and you will how many college students trying to buy textbooks have been ripped off.

As to using PayPal, thanks to them all my personal information, credit card info, home address, phone number, email address were stolen. Then that person stole other credit card numbers after I closed my account, but used my name and address and phone number and email. Because this happened I can not use PayPal, not that I would in a million years, because my account was linked with fraud, which I did not do, but that does not matter to them. Unless I am willing to get a court order to clear my name. Considering USAToday's recent article stated scammers can buy PayPal passwords to personal accounts for $7.00, I will pass on that court order. At least I know no scammer can open a PayPal account using my info.

Due to the theft of my info, someone in some 3rd world country was buying merchandise all over the Net using my name. It took me 2 years to straighten it out and only due to having friends in the FBI and Secret Service did I get any resolution. They even opened an Ebay account using my personal info.

My point is Renting DVC is a risk, as are many things. That is why it is such a bargain. You can take many steps to make it less risky, but it is not fool proof. You can only safeguard so much and the other is just pure trust and lots of luck. The biggest risk in all of this and why I don't rent is Disney will not recognize these transactions and participate in any settlement. Other timeshare communities will.

The DIS offers a service and to expect them to do more than they do is not reasonable and will not help. The burden is on those participating.

I suggest everyone considering renting, take all the info from this thread and learn from it. Also vrbo.com is a great site with info on how to avoid problems such as this.

Good luck to all involved and hopefully much has been learned here.

 

[DVC Daisy]

IMO, a lurker is not part of an online community. They are an outsider looking in. Especially in a community where information is shared. They read and take and do not give back. Like I said before: "Too bad".

REALLY? What about the OP in this post? What if the "lurker" only posts with very useful info? What if they use the sponsors (I DO!)? Does that compare to some of the posters who run their post count up just commenting on every little thing? What if they are on the "clique" threads and run their post count up? What about very, very active, long time posters who "morph" back with new identities?

If I can get the link to work - this one is good for looking up deeds in Vero:
http://www.clerk.indian-river.org/Records/ByName.aspx

 

[LisaS]

But, but, but.........what about "lurkers"? There are people out there who do not post much but read the DIS boards every day! Are they not part of the community? What about someone who is a "shy" poster and has read here for years but only post occasionally, vs. someone who joined 6 months ago and chats up a storm? Who is "really" more a part of the community?

I lurked for a while before starting to post. The main reason was that I was new to Disney so I felt I didn't have much to contribute compared to all the experts here on the DIS! And it would not have upset me one bit if I had wanted to post a "for rent" ad on the R/T board and discovered that I needed more of a history here on the DIS before I could do that. I don't see a 6-month/50-posts rule as any more restrictive than the restrictions on posting URLs (Sorry -- I can't remember the number of posts needed before you can do that.) After all, unlike eBay the R/T board is free -- no charge to post an ad here. You're not even required to be a DISboard supporter. I think a "6m50p" requirement is a small price to pay in exchange for being able to place a free "for rent" ad that will reach a huge community of Disney enthusiasts.

Just my $.02.

 

[Y-ASK]

My point is Renting DVC is a risk, as are many things. That is why it is such a bargain. You can take many steps to make it less risky, but it is not fool proof. You can only safeguard so much and the other is just pure trust and lots of luck. The biggest risk in all of this and why I don't rent is Disney will not recognize these transactions and participate in any settlement. Other timeshare communities will.

There is always going to be risk in any adventure that one might take by stepping out thier door. As Sammie stated, you just need to make it less risky. This event should not deter anyone from considering the possibility of renting. Stories like this are few and far between. In fact I can't remember ever seeing a thread like this stating that a renter got ripped off by a DVC owner. Most of the time it's the owner that has to deal with un-realistic or un-ethical renters. There are R/T transactions that take place every day on this forum so I wouldn't get too bent out of shape because of a couple of incidents closely related to one indiviual. Let's not yell shark or tiger or wolf too quickly now. Renting is still a very good deal for both renter and owner (Disclosure: I do rent my points from time to time and I have rented from other owners in the past). Go, rent, enjoy the trip, just spend a little extra time researching who you are dealing with.

That's all ,
Y-ASK

 

[JimMIA]

diznyfanatic has started a new thread entitled "DVC Point Rental Primer," based largely on her earlier post here giving a list of "red flags" to watch out for in a rental.

The thread is directed toward non-members who are considering renting a DVC ressie from an owner.

It is NOT intended for owners who want to discuss their issues in renting, although that might be a good thread for some owners who rent frequently to start.