S/O: Divorce... how to cut down?

[mi*vida*loca]

You think having a large TV is living high off the hog? That says a lot about you!

We call that hood rich.

 

[tvguy]

You basically have to make below the poverty line to qualify for anything. And you must work or find a job soon after applying and/or receiving benefits. So you basically have to be dirt poor to get any help.

When I got divorced in 2009 I wouldn’t have qualified for anything, even before the child support. Not a thing. And I didn’t make much money back then.

Well, that has been an issue at my last employer. When you are a TV station and doing news stories on what is considered low income in your county, and the staff figures out that 12 of the 16 people responsible for putting that newscast on the air AREN'T making that amount of money, including some who have worked there 30 years. And in California, job ads have to list a salary range and at that point none of the skilled jobs listed paid above the low income level.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

I don’t know if people know how difficult it is to get cash benefits from welfare. I know in NJ it’s near impossible. And if you do get cash benefits it’s not much at all. You can get food stamps, health insurance, housing vouchers (with waiting lists going for years), assistance with utilities - but you really have to make a very low income.

 

[gmi3804]

I don’t know if people know how difficult it is to get cash benefits from welfare. I know in NJ it’s near impossible. And if you do get cash benefits it’s not much at all. You can get food stamps, health insurance, housing vouchers (with waiting lists going for years), assistance with utilities - but you really have to make a very low income.

People who carp about those on assistance usually put limits on who they consider worthy recipients of such help. Yet those same people are also gaming the system by accepting tax benefits, which they likely chalk up to their “deserving” them. It’s all so hypocritical, but they’d never see it that way.

 

[TiggerTrigger]

I think it's an antiquated and inaccurate notion to view an elevated divorce rate as something akin to societal degradation. If anything, I think it proves how much we've grown as a society. Most of the issues that are currently driving the divorce rate were significant factors in relationships of earlier generations. It's more a matter of society finally evolving into something more humane so that people no longer have to stay shackled to toxic marriages. Additionally, you are no longer branded as something unsavory if you divorce yourself from a miserable situation. Ultimately, I'd prefer the high divorce rate over a society where staying married is paramount to adultery, abuse, lovelessness, etc.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

The nuclear family has been proven over and over as a huge key to a harmonious society. China is very concerned right now with all the current military age males in their society with so few choices of women to marry.

 

[disneydreamer1980]

I wonder how many of those divorces are offset by marriages solely to maintain health insurance? There was a woman on my street who had an amicable separation and remained married so she could have health insurance.

They kept the arrangement until she turned 65 and then officially divorced after being separated almost 20 years.

My parents recently separated after almost 50 years of marriage. They are staying legally married so my mother can stay on my father’s benefit plan. He was a state employee for his entire career (judge) so he gets good benefits and a good health plan, so they agreed to not divorce so she can continue to receive them. He also still splits his (very generous) pension with her monthly. He has however removed her as primary beneficiary on his life insurance and replaced her with me and my sisters, which she’s not happy about.

 

[tvguy]

why does anyone concern themselves with the legal or statistical status of anyone else's personal relationships?

Because it spills out from those individuals to impact people around them. We don't want to be concerned about it, but when your neighbors house sits vacant and unkept for six months because the status of the owners personal relationships. I watered and cut the lawn at that house the entire six months to keep up the neighborhood. Oh, and it was MY water as their water had been shut off.
I worked overnight shift for 25 years and I can't remember all the co-workers who spent the night in the office because of their personal status. Or stumbled in crying while I was trying to work. Or worse, their partner knows they are there and call all night long to argue with them. I don't have time to deal with that, I have work to do. Or they call in sick at at the last minute.
Or my favorite, the jilted spouse of a manager who wrote a letter spelling out his indiscretions and faxed it to every fax machine in the building, and then e-mailed it to all 120 employees.
Or the kids stuck in the middle of this who are friends your kids, and are now at your house all the time because it is a safe place.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

My parents recently separated after almost 50 years of marriage. They are staying legally married so my mother can stay on my father’s benefit plan. He was a state employee for his entire career (judge) so he gets good benefits and a good health plan, so they agreed to not divorce so she can continue to receive them. He also still splits his (very generous) pension with her monthly. He has however removed her as primary beneficiary on his life insurance and replaced her with me and my sisters, which she’s not happy about.

Why is she not happy about that? Did she not want the divorce?

 

[DCLMP]

Because it spills out from those individuals to impact people around them. We don't want to be concerned about it, but when your neighbors house sits vacant and unkept for six months because the status of the owners personal relationships. I watered and cut the lawn at that house the entire six months to keep up the neighborhood. Oh, and it was MY water as their water had been shut off.
I worked overnight shift for 25 years and I can't remember all the co-workers who spent the night in the office because of their personal status. Or stumbled in crying while I was trying to work. Or worse, their partner knows they are there and call all night long to argue with them. I don't have time to deal with that, I have work to do. Or they call in sick at at the last minute.
Or my favorite, the jilted spouse of a manager who wrote a letter spelling out his indiscretions and faxed it to every fax machine in the building, and then e-mailed it to all 120 employees.
Or the kids stuck in the middle of this who are friends your kids, and are now at your house all the time because it is a safe place.

Someone in our neighborhood posted pictures all over the neighborhood of this young women about age 20 who I guess had an affair with her husband. I have no idea who it was, but I tore all the pictures down. A really crappy thing to do to a young girl.

 

[kymom99]

This is pure BS. There are many people that are on assistance that live better than those that are not. This is a lived experience for me, growing up in a place where most of my neighbors were on welfare. In an era where large TVs were extremely expensive, everyone that I knew that had one was on assistance.

They were probably from rent a center

 

[ClaraOswald]

I wish there was some sort of mandatory "mini counseling" paperwork you had to fill out prior to getting a marriage license. The absolute best part of the pre marriage stuff we did with our minister was a non-religious form he handed us and said "fill it out separately and then compare answers." It was a form with questions anything from "are you going to have pets?" "who is cleaning up their messes?" to "how many children do you want?" "how many times a week will you have sex?" "who will cook?" "who will vacuum?" "do you want to own a home?""will you attend religious services?""how much of your income do you want to save?" "will you spend the holidays with extended family and who?" etc. etc. It was multiple pages long.

We filled it out separately and then compared. We actually matched pretty well on our answers, and it gave us a chance to discuss things that didn't match. No one saw it but us, but if we could require a "filled out and discussed the marriage checklist" box to be checked, maybe it would at least make an effort to have people to think about some of these things before becoming legally entwined.

Those questionaries are all fine and dandy. But the truth is...many of those types of answers can change over time. Someone may say they want 3 kids...then have 1 kid and be like "okay...1 is enough." (That's how it was for me!)

Things like who cooks and cleans and whatnot can change over time or week to week even. That's just reality.

Sex drive definitely changes for most people based on so many different factors.

So while those questions can be helpful....I think it's more important for people to realize that things change in relationships. And you either change with them or you part ways.

I'd argue that putting sex on a pedestal could cause people to rush into marriage. Waiting until they see if they are compatible seems much more conducive to a successful long term relationship.

Definitely this. I often wonder about those couples who are super young and only know each other a short time but get married so they can have sex. Not sure how that sort of thing could ever work out long term. Though those people tend to be the super religious ones who don't agree with divorce so they are stuck.

A good marriage is hard work, and that’s why so many end in divorce. When the lust fades a tad and there is a need for selflessness…….many just are unwilling to do the work to build a lasting relationship. People are selfish and think the grass is always greener elsewhere. People are also lazy and unwilling to do the work to maintain the loving relationship.

Our government entitlements also financially rewards single motherhood over married couples and this has also led to the break down of our nuclear families imho.

Dang...you must encounter a lot of LAZY people in your day to day life because it seems to really bug you.

As for the topic of this thread - my thoughts....I honestly don't care if someone is married for 50+ years or gets a divorce. No one's divorce has ever effected me or my marriage before so it really has nothing to do with me.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

They were probably from rent a center

Or they got it in February and were broke my March again. *income tax return time*

 

[sam_gordon]

The nuclear family has been proven over and over as a huge key to a harmonious society. China is very concerned right now with all the current military age males in their society with so few choices of women to marry.

OK. So what's YOUR solution? That was the point of the thread and I've asked you multiple times. I'll say right now, I don't have an answer.

 

[disneydreamer1980]

Why is she not happy about that? Did she not want the divorce?

No she wanted it she just didn’t want to lose out on the life insurance money if my dad were to pass first. She felt since they were married so long so she “deserved” it. She was the instigator of the separation so my father was/is being gracious in what he has given her. The whole thing is very sad. You don’t hear about people divorcing so late in life, but apparently it happens

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

No she wanted it she just didn’t want to lose out on the life insurance money if my dad were to pass first. She felt since they were married so long so she “deserved” it. She was the instigator of the separation so my father was/is being gracious in what he has given her. The whole thing is very sad. You don’t hear about people divorcing so late in life, but apparently it happens

So she wanted to divorce him, but maintain all the financial benefits of being his spouse? Seems illogical to me.

 

[disneydreamer1980]

So she wanted to divorce him, but maintain all the financial benefits of being his spouse? Seems illogical to me.

Yup. And my dad’s a very nice guy and he gave in, except for the life insurance. My mother has life insurance also with my dad as the beneficiary but she can’t change it because it’s his policy through his work/pension plan. I never ever considered my parents would be separating, especially this late in life. I can’t imagine how small kids must feel when their parents divorce because it’s been very hard on me and my sisters and we’re adults. My kids always tell me that most of their friends parents aren’t together anymore. I feel sad for them. DH and I prioritize our relationship over just about everything else because we both want our kids to have two, happy parents in the home. We’ve been together since we were very young and we’re very happy. I find that couples who met young and marry young tend to last longer, but that’s just in my experience of couples I know.

 

[TiggerTrigger]

No she wanted it she just didn’t want to lose out on the life insurance money if my dad were to pass first. She felt since they were married so long so she “deserved” it. She was the instigator of the separation so my father was/is being gracious in what he has given her. The whole thing is very sad. You don’t hear about people divorcing so late in life, but apparently it happens

I actually see this come up quite a bit in my area of work. You'd be amazed at how many older couples are divorcing. I've heard all kinds of stories. Every now and then, I encounter one where both sides wanted to split, but it's usually more that one was blindsided by the other's extreme discontentment. The "deserved it" part is all too common. Like they've put up with the other for XYZ number of decades, so this is their payment. Although, it's usually the instigator who feels the obligation to pay out to the other party. I guess at least he took care of all of this now. I know of a number of companies that will not pay out death distributions to a divorced spouse. In other words, their relationship has to be changed to non-spouse before the death of the owner in order to qualify to claim the proceeds.

 

[Turn the Page]

One thing with these statistics is that perpetual divorcees drag the average up. So one person getting divorced 4 times offsets 4 couples still together.

From personal stories I've heard, staying together for the kids is never the right option. Living with two parents who should be divorced is nearly always worse than split custody. As long as people keep having kids with the wrong partner, divorces will be the least bad solution.

I do agree with this. However, my book club recently read a book called 'The Unexpected Legacy of Divorce' by Judith Wallerstein. She is a social worker in....the San Francisco area if memory serves. Anyway, she founded a center to assist families being affected by divorce and followed children for 25 years to see what the long term effects on these kids were.

Her overall assessment was that in general, with few exceptions, outcomes were better for the children if the parents stayed together for their sakes. However, the book was published in 2001 and it was the findings of a 25 year study. Meaning the children she was talking about experienced divorce in the early 70's. I image many things have changed since then.

I understood and agreed with some of her points but the majority of her conclusions I though were hogwash. The case studies she used felt very cherry picked to me and she seemed to contradict herself quite a bit. It was a fairly interesting read though.

 

[jalapeno_pretzel]

I haven't read it all, but I think it's pretty easy ... if you don't approve of divorce, don't get one. Though sometimes you're not going to have a choice, if your spouse decides to go that way. I don't know why anyone would feel the need to obstruct, impede, or insert additional requirements into strangers' decisions about whether to divorce or not.