Run/Walk/Run discussion

[jpholic]

I'm planning on implementing run-walk for the marathon. I am thinking along the lines of 5k then walk/trot .4 to give me enough time to refuel and get the heart rate down. I want to break it down into seven 5k's with a walk after each and a final 2 mile push. I think it's more digestible that way... in my mind.

Today, Miss Thrills & Chills said I had to run 6.5 miles and I used a 2 mile race pace and .20 walk breakdown to see if I liked it.

I really want a sub 1:53 for the half marathon so thats kinda where my head is right now with what race I will push on. If I pull that at DL in Sept or WDW in Oct, then I want to push the MW 10k for a new proof of time.

I'd be very happy with a 5:00 finish for the marathon.

 

[col1]

Today we did the local Dumb Dutchman Half marathon, a flat-ish course mostly on crushed cinder trail. It promised:
A FREE BEER & HOT BREAKFAST WITH EACH ENTRY IN EITHER RACE. There was also a half of a half (6.55 miles).

Learning from my mistakes in my last half marathon attempt (see above) I utilized a 3 minute/30 second run/walk strategy for almost the entire race, even from the start. The plan was to do a slower, more manageable pace for the first half, then pick up the pace for the second, and then see what I had left for the finish. The thought was to conserve for the end. It worked out pretty well, although when I look at the paces, it seems that I flipped the two main sections - going a bit faster for miles 1-4, then slowing a bit for miles 5-9. So I think I need to work on that some more. Also, walked through water stations and fueled with gels every few miles. But the plan did work as I had enough energy to go full out for the last couple of miles and finishing at 2:20:57, a minute under my target of 2:22(POT for Dopey/Full). I was very happy with that. And no cramps like last time.

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Congratulations on hitting your goal

 

[sandam1]

I'm planning on implementing run-walk for the marathon. I am thinking along the lines of 5k then walk/trot .4 to give me enough time to refuel and get the heart rate down.

Have you looked at the Galloway method at all? If not, I would highly recommend doing so. Jeff recommends significantly shorter run and walk segments. For a 1:53 half, you are looking at somewhere around a 3 minute run and 30 second walk. Now, there are other people that do different ratios, but Jeff has the wide range of experience in what will work for "most people" and his recommendations are a good place to start.

For a 5 hour marathon, the recommendation is 60/30 or 40/20 or 30/15 or 30/30 or 20/20.

 

[camaker]

Have you looked at the Galloway method at all? If not, I would highly recommend doing so. Jeff recommends significantly shorter run and walk segments. For a 1:53 half, you are looking at somewhere around a 3 minute run and 30 second walk. Now, there are other people that do different ratios, but Jeff has the wide range of experience in what will work for "most people" and his recommendations are a good place to start.

For a 5 hour marathon, the recommendation is 60/30 or 40/20 or 30/15 or 30/30 or 20/20.

I have never figured out where the "recommended intervals" for hitting a time goal come from. Everyone has different running and walking paces, both of which are going to factor into the overall pace using the run/walking paces method. It seems like the targeted interval ratio should be specific to each individual and not so easily generalized. Can anyone explain the thought process?

 

[Evil fairy 88]

Today we did the local Dumb Dutchman Half marathon, a flat-ish course mostly on crushed cinder trail. It promised:
A FREE BEER & HOT BREAKFAST WITH EACH ENTRY IN EITHER RACE. There was also a half of a half (6.55 miles).

Learning from my mistakes in my last half marathon attempt (see above) I utilized a 3 minute/30 second run/walk strategy for almost the entire race, even from the start. The plan was to do a slower, more manageable pace for the first half, then pick up the pace for the second, and then see what I had left for the finish. The thought was to conserve for the end. It worked out pretty well, although when I look at the paces, it seems that I flipped the two main sections - going a bit faster for miles 1-4, then slowing a bit for miles 5-9. So I think I need to work on that some more. Also, walked through water stations and fueled with gels every few miles. But the plan did work as I had enough energy to go full out for the last couple of miles and finishing at 2:20:57, a minute under my target of 2:22(POT for Dopey/Full). I was very happy with that. And no cramps like last time.

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I am from PA too and always wanted to do the Dumb Dutchman race, but there always seems to be something else going on that day. Looks like fun - maybe I need to block off my calendar now for next year!

 

[MissLiss279]

I have never figured out where the "recommended intervals" for hitting a time goal come from. Everyone has different running and walking paces, both of which are going to factor into the overall pace using the run/walking paces method. It seems like the targeted interval ratio should be specific to each individual and not so easily generalized. Can anyone explain the thought process?

It sounds like surveys from thousands of runners, the ones recommended are the ones that work for most runners.
In general, the walk should be slow (or slow enough that you aren’t over-striding). That should remain constant. Then, just like continuous running you adjust how fast you are running during the run segment to get to the average min/mi pace. I think once you do this a few times, you start to get a feel for how fast/how much effort you need to put into each run segment to get to the average pace.
In the past few years, I think he has moved to the 30 second walk intervals, because it had been shown that longer than that - people start to slow down more.

ETA: I think the length of the run segment is based on how fast most people can run and still recover with a 30 second walk. (Based on easy/tempo/race pace)

 

[sandam1]

I have never figured out where the "recommended intervals" for hitting a time goal come from. Everyone has different running and walking paces, both of which are going to factor into the overall pace using the run/walking paces method. It seems like the targeted interval ratio should be specific to each individual and not so easily generalized. Can anyone explain the thought process?

As has been explained by Chris Twiggs (head of Galloway's Customized Training program), the recommended intervals come from Jeff studying what worked best for "most people" over the years. It is basically a starting point for what might work. Then each individual runner can try it, say yes or no, and then tweak it from there. But it prevents people from running too long which almost everyone wants to do when they first start run/walk.

For pacers during races, it also establishes a baseline and an expectation. Certain pacers may actually be more comfortable getting the same pace at a different intervals, but this way, going into every Galloway paced race, you know what intervals a specific time pacer is going to be doing.

In the past few years, I think he has moved to the 30 second walk intervals, because it had been shown that longer than that - people start to slow down more.

Exactly this!

 

[Mr_Incr3dible]

FWIW: earlier this year when I decided to more closely adhere to the RWR method, I tried a 3 min/30 second interval, and that was too much (at least at the time). I kept altering the intervals and settled on 45/45 seconds, which seemed to work well even for the end of the run.
Fast forward 5 months or so and I quit setting intervals on my watch (boy does the watch battery last a lot longer with that turned off!) and have been going more by feel and where on my usual training route where I know I was running vs walking. My guess is that my intervals are varying between 30 to 45 seconds, both running and walking depending on how I'm feeling, heat and humidity, beginning or end of the run, and if I'm on the flattish part of the course or the hills.

Going back to the recommended intervals being based on "this size fits most" for thousands most: yep. Pick one of those intervals listed above to use as a starting point and begin adjusting from there.

Others have mentioned running the first few miles and then settling into a RWR. On the one hand, that runs counter to the recommendation of employing RWR from the get-go, but if it works to provide some separation from the pelotons of RWR-ers, then go for it.
It all seems to be a literal YMMV, so find intervals that work for you and your desired finish time. There is no one-size right answer.

 

[radiodome21]

I’ve been busing ChatGPT as a running coach. I’ve found it helpful. I’ll actually screenshot my Apple workout after my runs and have it analyze. I let t it know my interval time and have played around with different intervals too for the last month since doing a 10 miler over Memorial Day weekend. I also bounce different ideas by it too with regards to gels/ fuels and shoe suggestions. I’ve settled on my 120/30 for a while. My coach suggested trying a 3 minute/1 minute interval though. . I gently reminded it that we shouldn’t go over 30 seconds.

 

[FlyingDonut]

I’ve been busing ChatGPT as a running coach.

I did this my first year back running, partially as an experiment to see hot ChatGPT worked. I'm not sure how much you plan ahead, but I asked for a several week long schedule in an excel format. It was great for a while, but then when I'd ask it to remind me what I'd done last week, it would make up workouts I hadn't done. It also messed up the days of the week (thought the 2nd was a Tuesday, not a Sunday) which would've made exactly race week tricky.

I liked it, and it's probably improved in 2 years, but I recommend keeping track of everything (your plan, and what you've done) in a separate location so you know what's true. I did feel like I had a good experience asking it about when to ramp mileage, swap workouts around, etc.

 

[radiodome21]

Oh it’s definitely got its flaws. I’ve also noticed that it sometimes suffers from dementia with regards to days of the week and recalling previous runs/ distances. I have every run stored in my phone. I really only use it for advice and suggestions with gear and fuel. I have an issue with my right Achilles and heal and it let me know that one of the pairs shoes I use might not be the best option so it’s given me guidance on adjustments I can and did make to the shoes and what pairs I might consider.

I will say though it has definitely helped me with pacing with regards to BPMs and heart rate zones.