Run Over By An EVC

[rrkman]

OMG.....this thread reminds me of my two hilarious ECV stories!

In 2005, we saw a lady drive one straight, full throttle, off a curb in the hub in front of the castle at MK. It was broad daylight and there were tons of people around finding spots for the afternoon parade. The funny thing was that it made a huge KABOOM so loud it stopped people in their tracks around her and she just kept driving it down Main Street like she didn't even know what she'd done. Oblivious!

In 2008, at DTD, there was a couple in front of us, both elderly, who were having an argument about the other not knowing where they were going. They both had some strong words to say to each other, then veered their ECV's off into opposite directions. It was the ECV equivalent to stomping out of a room, I suppose.....

Okay...I think they're funny. Maybe you just had to be there.

I figure I can more easily control my movement then they can and I just do my best to stay out of their way.

Don't worry....you didn't have to be there. The stomping out story is funny. It would even be funnier if (going back to the seinfeld episode) they were really slow and everyone was still walking much faster than they were going.

 

[jenjersnap]

I am not pointing fingers because I'm sure it's a combo of all the factors mentioned here, but, after observing numerous close calls with ecvs in September (ecv usage seemed way up this year), I didn't feel comfortable letting my two younger kids walk as much as usual in the parks. I felt in my gut there was an accident waiting to happen.

 

[AbbyPan]

Don't worry....you didn't have to be there. The stomping out story is funny. It would even be funnier if (going back to the seinfeld episode) they were really slow and everyone was still walking much faster than they were going.

omg, you just made me spit all my water out!!!

 

[Clotho]

I wholeheartedly agree with this.

However, for those of you who feel attacked in any way, shape or form, i think most of us were simply sharing our stories of "ECV's gone wild".

And I was just about to come back and qualify:

I STILL think that some of these ECV stories are hilarious! Seriously! It is some of the side-commentary, making broadly sweeping, serious comments about the whole "class" of ECV drivers that get my goat!

 

[Grumpy3]

What I'm hearing is they are hard to operate, some people may not be capable of reacting quickly when people step in front of them, they are not visible in a crowd beacuse of their height, and operators go too fast.

Four suggestions that would help.

1) Make them more visible at a 5' level
2) Install a system that automatically applies the brakes when you let off of the throttle
3) Reduce the maximum speed
4) Require an orientation for the operator

 

[bfeller]

I haven't read the entire thread but as a person who had to use an ECV for one of my visits because of a foot problem that wouldn't allow me to place weight on it and I was wearing a cast to keep it stable, I have to also say that it is hard to drive one of those things. As someone said earlier, they do not have brakes and going on a downhill is very hard to control. It took some getting used to and once I got used to it I would try very hard when going downhill to wait and let the person who was walking in front of me plenty of room so that I didn't accidently hit them. But I can't tell you how many times that while I was trying to do this there were so many people who were behind me in line that just were in such a rush that they would just pass me by if I was going too slow.

I also got the lovely experience of having put my EVC on a curb to view a parade and having the lovely enjoyment of some adult decide to stand right in front of me.

The one that really got me is the person who sat on my lap at the Indy Show at DHS. For some reason I must have looked like a bench.

Either way, it comes down to people being courteous, whether you are walking, pushing a stroller or driving an EVC. The elderly people do have a hard time with them and getting used to them but they are old. Seriously just be patient. For those with them who may have said "you are not the first today" please be aware that they could be joking just to keep it light for the person on the EVC from being embarrassed. My husband has that kind of sense of humor.

Of course you can tell the majority of the time if what is being done is being done with malice and I know that there are people who do feel entitled to whatever they want. But please don't judge everyone by a rude person.

So please just put yourself in someone elses shoes. Sometimes the road that they are walking is very challenging.


PS.....don't sit on the lady in the EVC or stand in front of her. You may make a better door than window.

 

[Clotho]

Maybe this can be the name of a new ride for Disney--EVCCow Scooper

LOLROFL!!

1) Make them more visible at a 5' level
2) Install a system that automatically applies the brakes when you let off of the throttle
3) Reduce the maximum speed
4) Require an orientation for the operator

I think a little flag on the top of them might be a good idea...or cause new problems! Haha

As for the brakes, the reason there aren't automatic brakes is so it doesn't jerk to a stop. Imagine if I, with my back injury, had the ECV suddenly brake to an immediate stop every time I took my finger off the accelerator?! OUCH! Not really an option. I have to say though, that while it didn't stop immediately, when I took my finger off the accellerator it did stop pretty quickly. Again, I think the issue is largely with elderly who have reduced reaction times in general--they aren't taking their hadn off the accellerator immediately or quickly. Some may not even notice they hit someone, due to a slower mind and reaction time. Not to generalize ALL older people in an ECV have this issue, but that those who may hit you and not apologize, or run over you and keep going...they honestly may not even have noticed, and it may be due to their age.

 

[Twitterpated Dad]

It frustrates me that so many people here imply that if an ECV bumps into someone, it was the driver's carelessness. Please read my previous post, and some posts of others, who have had to use an ECV and what it was like trying to dodge all the careless, reckless, thoughtless, oblivious people running in front of them! Why should I as the driver be stuck for 30 seconds in the middle of a path because someone jumped in front of me without looking where THEY were going?

I also am frustrated with the implication that everyone in an ECV is permanently disabled in some way. This is far from the truth. I had mine for a foot/back injury, and only used it on one day when I would have otherwise not been able to go to the parks at all without extreme pain. Some are temporary injuries, some are people who simply get tired quickly and walking all day is not an option but they want to keep up with their families, some are on doctor's orders for other ailments...not everyone is a blue-card carrying disabled person.

Try to see both sides, people!

It all comes down to courtesy and the right of way. Generally we grant the right of way to the less maneuverable. (In the case of ECV and pedestrians, you can argue this either way.) We also tend to grant the right of way to prior users. Let me give an example:

I ride a mountain bike. I'm expected to yield the trail to both hikers and horseback riders. They were using the trail first. It doesn't matter if the hikers are walking 4 abreast across an entire dirt road. I'm expected to slow to crawl, aproach without making too much noise, and politely call out "on your left please" and then "thank you" as I pass. Even if they were sitting down eating lunch, blocking the entire trail, in the shade, and around a blind corner, it would still be my "fault" if I ran into them.

Pedestrians, strollers and non-electric wheelchairs were at WDW first. It is very reasonable that ECV drivers yield to all other users of the pathways. They came last.

Yes, cutting in front of an ECV is rude. So is cutting in front of a fellow pedestrian. Even when someone does, as a pedestrian, I can generally avoid knocking them down. If an ECV driver can't, the driver is either going too fast or not paying close enough attention.

With increased power (and speed) comes increased responsibility.

It's just an opinion, but it's well thought out, and, well, it's mine.

 

[Aardvarks]

We were in the line for Nemo at the living sees and there was a very elderly lady ahead of us driving her ecv. That line has twists and turns and at every corner she rammed that machine into either the inside wall or the outside wall, then shot back and hit the rear wall before suddenly catapulting forwards and doing it again. Her daughter was with her (the daughter was around 55yo) but her son in law was a good 5 people up in line and trying real hard to pretend that he didnt know either of them.

We were the next people in line and a good 10ft back

We managed not to laugh

 

[Grumpy3]

LOLROFL!!



I think a little flag on the top of them might be a good idea...or cause new problems! Haha

As for the brakes, the reason there aren't automatic brakes is so it doesn't jerk to a stop. Imagine if I, with my back injury, had the ECV suddenly brake to an immediate stop every time I took my finger off the accelerator?! OUCH! Not really an option. I have to say though, that while it didn't stop immediately, when I took my finger off the accellerator it did stop pretty quickly. Again, I think the issue is largely with elderly who have reduced reaction times in general--they aren't taking their hadn off the accellerator immediately or quickly. Some may not even notice they hit someone, due to a slower mind and reaction time. Not to generalize ALL older people in an ECV have this issue, but that those who may hit you and not apologize, or run over you and keep going...they honestly may not even have noticed, and it may be due to their age.

I suffer with back pain daily so I can appreciate what your saying, but with all due respect if your back was that sensitive to sudden movement that's probably not a good time to be riding a scooter in a crowded theme park

 

[Clotho]

Yes, cutting in front of an ECV is rude. So is cutting in front of a fellow pedestrian. Even when someone does, as a pedestrian, I can generally avoid knocking them down. If an ECV driver can't, the driver is either going too fast or not paying close enough attention.

It's just an opinion, but it's well thought out, and, well, it's mine.

I appreciate your opinion but respectfully disagree. You simply cannot always stop in time when someone carelessly jumps in front of you. And I think certainly that there are times when someone could apologize to the ECV user and they don't. I just think everyone has a responsibility to be aware and polite. That's not so unreasonable.

I suffer with back pain daily so I can appreciate what your saying, but with all due respect if your back was that sensitive to sudden movement that's probably not a good time to be riding a scooter in a crowded theme park

Then don't use my example. Think of the elderly who are more frail than even I was. Jerking to a stop is dangerous for them. Think of people with other injuries or issues, which may make them somewhat unstable. Jerking to a stop just wouldn't be safe for the riders.

 

[Dubb]

Pedestrians, strollers and non-electric wheelchairs were at WDW first. It is very reasonable that ECV drivers yield to all other users of the pathways. They came last.

This has to be sarcasm.

 

[Twitterpated Dad]

You simply cannot always stop in time when someone carelessly jumps in front of you.

Then you're simply going too fast.

 

[Twitterpated Dad]

This has to be sarcasm.

No, it's not. ECV's have no reason or right to expect that everyone else will yield or adapt to them.

 

[Dubb]

If the ECV was there first, I most certainly would yield. I am not going to subscribe to the theory that just because they were invented last they have to yield to me no matter what.

 

[Twitterpated Dad]

If the ECV was there first, I most certainly would yield. I am not going to subscribe to the theory that just because they were invented last they have to yield to me no matter what.

The point I'm trying to make is that ECV drivers should not expect everyone else to change their behavior.

I am not saying that a pedestrian should feel free to "jump in front" of an ECV. But, if pedestrians are doing what they always have, and introducing the ECV causes problems, then yes, the ECV should slow down and yield to the pedestrians.

And, of course, it should be patently obvious that pedestrians do not need to part like the red sea to allow ECVs to travel faster than a normal walking speed.

 

[bfeller]

Yes, cutting in front of an ECV is rude. So is cutting in front of a fellow pedestrian. Even when someone does, as a pedestrian, I can generally avoid knocking them down. If an ECV driver can't, the driver is either going too fast or not paying close enough attention.

I totally agree with the first two sentences.

BUT....really you are comparing a pedestrian to a motorized ECV You couldn't be more wrong!! So tell me how that works when someone is on a bike and they can't stop as quick as a walker....or maybe how does that work when in a car, can you stop as quick as a walker. I think you just blew all the theories that are taught in driver's education about momentum/speed or maybe that is physics.

 

[Mr. & Mrs. Smith]

Look, whether or not people would like to believe it, pedestrians always have the right-away over motorized vehicles. I'm not saying that pedestrians should be rude and it would be great if they paid closer attention to ECVs. However, when it comes down to it, even if a person deliberately jumps out in front an ECV in a pre-meditated surprise attack, the person operating the motorized vehicle is ultimately responsible. It might not seem fair but that's the way that it is.

So, I think rather than put anyone in that situation, Disney should offer some sort of training when renting out ECVs. After all, it's a lot easier to train ECV drivers than it is every pedestrian that comes to the parks.

 

[Dubb]

even if a person deliberately jumps out in front an ECV in a pre-meditated surprise attack, the person operating the motorized vehicle is ultimately responsible. It might not seem fair but that's the way that it is.

Yeah, same goes for all motor vehicles! If some pedestrian jumps in front of my vehicle, and I hit him, then it's all my fault! That's what "right of way" means!

 

[Twitterpated Dad]

I totally agree with the first two sentences.

BUT....really you are comparing a pedestrian to a motorized ECV You couldn't be more wrong!! So tell me how that works when someone is on a bike and they can't stop as quick as a walker....or maybe how does that work when in a car, can you stop as quick as a walker. I think you just blew all the theories that are taught in driver's education about momemtum/speed or maybe that is physics.

I don't disagree with your physics. That's my exactly my point. The ECVs are using a pedestrian space. ECVs need to operated at or below walking speeds.

We aren't talking about a pedestrian running out into the street. We are talking about a car driving on the sidewalk.

It's just like my mountain bike example. While I'm on a hiking trail, I'm expected to minimize my impact on hikers. If I can't avoid a hiker, then I'm definitely riding too fast.

It's simply my contention that while ECVs are operating on a pedestrian walkway, they should be operated in a manner that is consistent with how pedestrians are using the walkway. Pedestrians should not have to change their behavior to accommodate the ECVs.