Rumors that Disney is in negotiations to sell Star Wars back to George Lucas!

[PolymerSkywalker]

Why is it that you think she gets her hands in the creative a lot? From what I see and read, she doens't get involved with that much and let's her directors direct. Sure, it's fair if you think she's not picking the best directors, but I just don't get all the "blame" that is always focused on her specifically - she doesn't write the stories. She also never get's any credit for the stuff that people like. You know she did hire Favreau and it's not like he does everythign despite her. It's ridiculous!

How many writers / directors has she fired from her projects in the last 5 years? Does this sound like "she doesn't get involved with that much and lets her directors direct"?

 

[BrianL]

I can understand criticising her business decisions, and yes, she does do the hiring and firing (though I don't know that she fired anybody from Indy - some writers were allowed to move along due to covid, etc.). She does not write the sotries, though she likely approves them. That is her job after all. Why though does she get blamed for every failure and receives no credit for the successes?

Also, Indy turned out pretty good, despite tepid box-office returns. Creatively it's fine though.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

I can understand criticising her business decisions, and yes, she does do the hiring and firing (though I don't know that she fired anybody from Indy - some writers were allowed to move along due to covid, etc.). She does not write teh sotries, though she likely approves them. That is her job after all. Why though does she get blamed for every failure and receives no credit for the successes?

Also, Indy turned out pretty good, despite tepid box-office returns. Creatively it's fine though.

"Pretty good" movie that will lose $300+ million dollars, and that not many people are interested in seeing. Is that how you think the Disney Investors will see it? She was also directly in charge of that massively inflated budget as well by the way.

 

[BrianL]

"Pretty good" movie that will lose $300+ million dollars, and that not many people are interested in seeing. Is that how you think the Disney Investors will see it? She was also directly in charge of that massively inflated budget as well by the way.

Again, I can totally understand criticising her for her business decisions - that's fair. Though WHY a good Indy movie didn't do well is a complicated matter that can't only be laid at her feet. Maybe it needed a different release date? Maybe too many people just wait for Streaming? Maybe they shouldn't have made it in the first place as there is no appetite for Indy anymore. But, creatively, it is good. If Kathleen DID have a heavy hand in the creative, which I doubt, then she did a good job with that aspect of it anyway.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

The force awakens, Rogue One, and Mando seasons 1-2......she can have credit for those. The rest has been a pile of hot garbage.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

Again, I can totally understand criticising her for her business decisions - that's fair. Though WHY a good Indy movie didn't do well is a complicated matter that can't only be laid at her feet. Maybe it needed a different release date? Maybe too many people just wait for Streaming? Maybe they shouldn't have made it in the first place as there is no appetite for Indy anymore. But, creatively, it is good. If Kathleen DID have a heavy hand in the creative, which I doubt, then she did a good job with that aspect of it anyway.

Uh, but how about another sequel that was made a while back for a franchise that many weren't certain needed a sequel starring your good buddy Tom Cruise? How about the one he will star in next week that is like the 7th film in that franchise? How will Indy's legs be when Dead Reckoning comes out?

And I fundamentally disagree on your opinion of leadership, I have run a business before. All successes and failures are ultimately laid at the leader's feet. You hire the team, you manage the team, you set the initiatives, you set the quality expectations, you create the work culture........it is your product that leaves the dock.

 

[etherealcaitiff]

Also, Indy turned out pretty good, despite tepid box-office returns. Creatively it's fine though.

Gonna have to hard disagree on this. If Raiders had never existed I would agree with you, but it does, so I don't. Spoilers ahead:

Spoiler

First act: establish the MacGuffin.
Second act: lead the bad guys to the MacGuffin.
Third act: bad guys use the MacGuffin to their demise.

Which movie am I describing, Raiders or Dial?

Now that's a major over-simplification of it, but there are several other plot beats that are the same. If you did a story board of the 2 movies it would be like a mad lib when you remove the few differences. That doesn't make Dial bad, but I would not call it creative by any means. Kind of like how the Force Awakens is a good movie, but if you've seen Star Wars (A New Hope) you may feel like it's just an HD version of the same movie. It feels like we're in the cover-band era of movies now.

 

[BrianL]

Uh, but how about another sequel that was made a while back for a franchise that many weren't certain needed a sequel starring your good buddy Tom Cruise? How about the one he will star in next week that is like the 7th film in that franchise? How will Indy's legs be when Dead Reckoning comes out?

And I fundamentally disagree on your opinion of leadership, I have run a business before. All successes and failures are ultimately laid at the leader's feet. You hire the team, you manage the team, you set the initiatives, you set the quality expectations, you create the work culture........it is your product that leaves the dock.

I understand everything you are saying, but you also act like she wrote the movie. She did not. Also, even if the movie were perfectly written - I mean, perfectly beyond reproach - it would still be underperforming because that's not why people aren't seeing the movie.

I am only calling you out on the idea that Kathleen forgot that she wasn't a creative. There's just no reason to believe that is the case.

 

[BrianL]

Gonna have to hard disagree on this. If Raiders had never existed I would agree with you, but it does, so I don't. Spoilers ahead:

Spoiler

First act: establish the MacGuffin.
Second act: lead the bad guys to the MacGuffin.
Third act: bad guys use the MacGuffin to their demise.

Which movie am I describing, Raiders or Dial?

Now that's a major over-simplification of it, but there are several other plot beats that are the same. If you did a story board of the 2 movies it would be like a mad lib when you remove the few differences. That doesn't make Dial bad, but I would not call it creative by any means. Kind of like how the Force Awakens is a good movie, but if you've seen Star Wars (A New Hope) you may feel like it's just an HD version of the same movie.

I think you're describing The Last Crusade!

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

Well at least you and I can agree that KK is not creative, glad we can clear that up.

I just wish you were willing to admit she is a horrendous studio head too, but I understand that is a bridge too far for you.

 

[BrianL]

Well at least you and I can agree that KK is not creative, glad we can clear that up.

I just wish you were willing to admit she is a horrendous studio head foo, but I understand that is a bridge too far for you.

She's made some mistakes for sure. I don't know about "horrendous." Despite your consternation, all of the SW sequel trilogy movies made a LOT of money, even the one you hate so much. Solo was a misstep, mostly due to teh release date though, which she doesn't pick all on her own (I'm sure wshe has some influence). It has been concerning that she would announce projects only to have them not come togehter. Honesly, that's normal for a studio to experience that, but usually they don't announce the project until it is more solid, so we never know when things are quietly killed. That is definitely a bad look. It doesn't help thought hat the fans scrutinize every little thing that Lucasfilm does - I don't know that they could keep these thigns a secret.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

She's made some mistakes for sure. I don't know about "horrendous." Despite your consternation, all of the SW sequel trilogy movies made a LOT of money, even the one you hate so much. Solo was a misstep, mostly due to teh release date though, which she doesn't pick all on her own (I'm sure wshe has some influence). It has been concerning that she would announce projects only to have them not come togehter. Honesly, that's normal for a studio to experience that, but usually they don't announce the project until it is more solid, so we never know when things are quietly killed. That is definitely a bad look. It doesn't help thought hat the fans scrutinize every little thing that Lucasfilm does - I don't know that they could keep these thigns a secret.

Fans scrutinize everything Lucasfilm does, because Star Wars was one of the biggest movie IP's on planet earth before KK got ahold of it. With millions and millions of passionate fans all over the world. Did you expect everyone to just stay silent while she destroyed people's childhood heroes?

 

[irlandaise]

I think you're describing The Last Crusade!

That was my thought, too!

While Indy 3 wasn't as repetitive of its predecessor as TFA was of ANH, it had the same underlying plot structure.

 

[irlandaise]

Well at least you and I can agree that KK is not creative, glad we can clear that up.

But you're insisting that she tries to control the creative process.

 

[irlandaise]

Fans scrutinize everything Lucasfilm does, because Star Wars was one of the biggest movie IP's on planet earth before KK got ahold of it. With millions and millions of passionate fans all over the world. Did you expect everyone to just stay silent while she destroyed people's childhood heroes?

How many SW fans are you claiming to speak for?

I don't have access to the advanced features of Box Office Mojo to see inflation-adjusted numbers, but just in raw numbers, Parts VII-IX all grossed over $1B, as did Rogue One. Obviously there are "millions and millions of passionate fans" who don't agree with your disappointment in those movies.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

But you're insisting that she tries to control the creative process.

Correct, she does. I think that has been pretty much proven at this point.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

How many SW fans are you claiming to speak for?

I don't have access to the advanced features of Box Office Mojo to see inflation-adjusted numbers, but just in raw numbers, Parts VII-IX all grossed over $1B, as did Rogue One. Obviously there are "millions and millions of passionate fans" who don't agree with your disappointment in those movies.

I speak for one, me. What I like and don't like is my opinion only. Being that the movies steadily declined during the trilogy, certainly suggest a decent sized portion of the fanbase might think similarly, but what do I know. I mean The Last Jedi is only on every list I have ever seen of the most divisive movies in history.

 

[BrianL]

Correct, she does. I think that has been pretty much proven at this point.

It most certainly has not been proven. I have asked you why you think so - it doesn't appear that she interferes more than any other studio head.

 

[etherealcaitiff]

How many SW fans are you claiming to speak for?

I don't have access to the advanced features of Box Office Mojo to see inflation-adjusted numbers, but just in raw numbers, Parts VII-IX all grossed over $1B, as did Rogue One. Obviously there are "millions and millions of passionate fans" who don't agree with your disappointment in those movies.

That's not really a fair argument, because you would have had to have seen the movies in order to say you don't like them in good faith. If we're going with the box office=good movie logic, then I guess Transformers 19 is better than Citizen Kane...

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

That's not really a fair argument, because you would have had to have seen the movies in order to say you don't like them in good faith. If we're going with the box office=good movie logic, then I guess Transformers 19 is better than Citizen Kane...

A point often missed. I utterly hated TLJ, but I paid for a group of 10 people to go that opening night. I didn't care for TROS, but I once again took my crew to see if Disney would try and correct from the steaming pile of poo that Rian Johnson made. So my hard earned money is listed in those box office numbers, even though I didn't care for either movie.

Here is what I can say with confidence. You don't ever have to worry about me viewing Disney ST again, I won't ever show up in their streaming, linear, or DVD numbers. I have no interest in watching another Rey Palpatine movie, so I doubt I attend that one if it ever happens either.