Rumor Mill: 5th theme park; more to Epcot World Showcase; Star Wars Land in phases?

[Lewisc]

History tells us how much land Walt bought in the Orlando area, bigger then many cities. What isn't told is how much of that land has been sold. Examples include Crossroads shopping center, Four Seasons complex and Celebration. Shades of Green was all but sold. Western development isn't an actual sale but the development doesn't look like Disney. I don't have any proof but based on old maps Gaylord Palms and the Marriott Village appear to be on land Disney used to own. Shades of Green was originally a Disney hotel.

Obviously Disney still has land available for another park, but not as much land as some posters think.

The reasons against a 5th park in the foreseeable future have been explains. $$$ cost. Need. Disney has 4 major parks, 2 water parks, DTD, mini-golf...More then enough for a "typical" one week vacation.

A 5th park could wind up being a separate gate for Avatar. I haven't read that anyplace but I think that's a lot more likely then a full blown 5th park.

Reasons against a fifth

 

[OnSpaceshipEarth]

A fifth gate should only happen when all of the non-MK parks are operating at full potential and that's not even close at the moment. On the bright side, the addition of Pandora and the transformation of the AK into a night-time park is the next best thing to an all-new park. I'm excited about this....it should be sensational.

 

[rteetz]

There will indeed be a 5th park, the question is what it will be and when. The what is in many different plans and ideas, but I doubt nothing near final drawings. The when is not soon, there is to much to do on the other parks. I do believe you will see a 5th park in about 10 years, sooner if the improvements on the other parks move along. The sooner Iger is gone the faster that will happen. AKK

The Iger thing doesn't necessarily change anything if Rasulo or Staggs get the job their just like him I don't see it being much different than it is now.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

The Iger thing doesn't necessarily change anything if Rasulo or Staggs get the job their just like him I don't see it being much different than it is now.

Your point is indeed well taken.

Time will tell!


AKK

 

[jcnewton]

Obviously Disney still has land available for another park, but not as much land as some posters think.

If I'm not mistaken, isn't quite a bit of the open land designated to stay as preserved land for wildlife and such? Basically, nothing can ever be built on that land. So when looking at a map or satellite image, the land area looks huge, but usable land is a different story.

 

[skier_pete]

If I'm not mistaken, isn't quite a bit of the open land designated to stay as preserved land for wildlife and such? Basically, nothing can ever be built on that land. So when looking at a map or satellite image, the land area looks huge, but usable land is a different story.

This is true, but from my understanding, roughly half of the usable land has been built on, there is still plenty of land available for construction.

 

[rteetz]

This is true, but from my understanding, roughly half of the usable land has been built on, there is still plenty of land available for construction.

Correct I remember a few months ago Disney purchased a bit of land to offset some of the usable and unusable land. They purchased the new land to be able to have more usable land. I remember also seeing a map of WDW and the currently used land, unusable land, and land that is available for use. A very large amount of the WDW property is unusable but there is enough space for a fifth theme park and then some.

 

[101disneyfan]

Not remembering where I read this, just sharing and then someone can maybe confirm this: I believe that there is land available for seven MK-sized theme parks total.

 

[Tikiman]

Yeah I think we'll get a fifth park... right around the time that the sun explodes.

They were less than a year away from starting a 5th park when the economy crashed. There is a warehouse full of stuff for the park out in California.

 

[rteetz]

They were less than a year away from starting a 5th park when the economy crashed. There is a warehouse full of stuff for the park out in California.

Will we ever see that come to life?

 

[skier_pete]

They were less than a year away from starting a 5th park when the economy crashed. There is a warehouse full of stuff for the park out in California.

Not as I understand it - they were considering a 5th park when the economy crashed, but a boutique park like Sea World's Discovery Cove. It never got past the design stage. "Less than a year away" is the same as saying "Somewhere between a year and forever"

They don't start building stuff at WDI prior to them breaking ground on the park except for models. By "warehouse full" if you mean a "warehouse full of models" maybe I'll believe that.

 

[Tikiman]

Will we ever see that come to life?

It would be nice because the stuff they had for Night Kingdom was awesome but I have never heard another word of it since they killed it.

 

[Tikiman]

Not as I understand it - they were considering a 5th park when the economy crashed, but a boutique park like Sea World's Discovery Cove. It never got past the design stage. "Less than a year away" is the same as saying "Somewhere between a year and forever"

They don't start building stuff at WDI prior to them breaking ground on the park except for models. By "warehouse full" if you mean a "warehouse full of models" maybe I'll believe that.

Well you can believe what you want but I have seen the stuff and had people working on the project tell me the details. Hand carved stuff for the park. Large pieces. I won't waist my time trying to convince you.

 

[tjkraz]

By "warehouse full" if you mean a "warehouse full of models" maybe I'll believe that.

That's basically it. I don't think people realize how close "Night Kingdom" (or whatever the eventual name may have been) was to happening when the economy threw it into a tailspin.

Not only was it designed to be a pricey boutique option but the initial investment would have been very modest. Night Kingdom was more of an "experience" than a park. Some elements were eventually utilized in the Wild Africa Trek at DAK.

In recent years we've seen Disney repeatedly invest in these high-end parties and meals aimed at a limited number of guests. $75 "fireworks viewing" where their only overhead is a couple Cast Members and $5 worth of snacks. $99 dinner party--held during $70 MVMCP and MNSSHP. Even the Wild Africa Trek which costs $200-250 per person while expenses are limited to a small number of CMs and a catered lunch.

Disney would love to be able to net similar returns on a larger scale. Imagine a 6-8 hour event which offers unique Disney experiences, one meal and a couple "free" souvenirs (pin, photo, etc.) for $400-500 per person. There's your "5th park."

When you build a full-blown theme park, you have to invest a lot of money, hire a lot of people, attract a lot of guests and charge a high price in order to make it work. We've often discussed how a (traditional) 5th park would do little more than leach attendance from the current four. Most guests would still come for the same 6, 7 or 8 days...they'd just spend less time at one of the first 4 in favor of #5.

Settle on the right boutique concept and suddenly it costs far less to build, staff and maintain. You draw far fewer guests....but you charge them each MUCH higher admission fees.

 

[Redarrow5150]

Disney will refurbish HS because a lot of the attractions have gone by the side. You cannot have empty buildings sitting in a lot because that's money lost. I highly expect Star Wars and Pixar to get firmly planted in HS especially with LMA looking like it's on it's last legs. The amount of investments they will be pumping into DH and AK pretty much assures building another park is out of the question. The only exception could be a 5th park on Star Wars alone but again that is going to awhile at the pace Dis does expansion.

 

[anthony2k7]

Disney will refurbish HS because a lot of the attractions have gone by the side. You cannot have empty buildings sitting in a lot because that's money lost. I highly expect Star Wars and Pixar to get firmly planted in HS especially with LMA looking like it's on it's last legs. The amount of investments they will be pumping into DH and AK pretty much assures building another park is out of the question. The only exception could be a 5th park on Star Wars alone but again that is going to awhile at the pace Dis does expansion.

Disney doesn't care too much about empty buildings though. Look at Epcot or PI or all those years AoA stood half built.

 

[OnSpaceshipEarth]

In this current environment a "5th gate" is ridiculous.

There is soooo much that can be done with the three non-MK parks and considering the vast majority of guests can only take a *week/7 day* vacation all investment should be in investing/expanding/improving the current parks.

MK is fine...AK is getting what it needs. That leaves Epcot and DHS as the prime candidates for major re-investment.

 

[MissDisney365]

Given the attendance problems Disney has with AK and DS I think it's highly unlikely they will build a new park, but instead focus on building new attractions/lands in those existing parks. It's cheaper too and as we know Disney doesn't like spending money on frivolous things like park attractions

So Disney will do what Disney does best, it will plan for years, implement the slowest possible multi-phased construction project - while continue to market these exciting new lands.
2014 - planning
2015 - planning
2016 - break ground for Star Wars Land
2017 - signs up, including wooden Star Wars facades
2018 - first part of SW land opens, Death Star restrooms and Naboo gift shop
2019 - 2nd phase, spinning 'Battle of Hoth' tea cups and Princess Leia meet & greet. Opens 'Empire Strikes Baby-Back Rib Shack'
2020 - Opens first E Ticket ride.

This is brilliant.

 

[jon18uk]

That's basically it. I don't think people realize how close "Night Kingdom" (or whatever the eventual name may have been) was to happening when the economy threw it into a tailspin.

Not only was it designed to be a pricey boutique option but the initial investment would have been very modest. Night Kingdom was more of an "experience" than a park. Some elements were eventually utilized in the Wild Africa Trek at DAK.

In recent years we've seen Disney repeatedly invest in these high-end parties and meals aimed at a limited number of guests. $75 "fireworks viewing" where their only overhead is a couple Cast Members and $5 worth of snacks. $99 dinner party--held during $70 MVMCP and MNSSHP. Even the Wild Africa Trek which costs $200-250 per person while expenses are limited to a small number of CMs and a catered lunch.

Disney would love to be able to net similar returns on a larger scale. Imagine a 6-8 hour event which offers unique Disney experiences, one meal and a couple "free" souvenirs (pin, photo, etc.) for $400-500 per person. There's your "5th park."

When you build a full-blown theme park, you have to invest a lot of money, hire a lot of people, attract a lot of guests and charge a high price in order to make it work. We've often discussed how a (traditional) 5th park would do little more than leach attendance from the current four. Most guests would still come for the same 6, 7 or 8 days...they'd just spend less time at one of the first 4 in favor of #5.

Settle on the right boutique concept and suddenly it costs far less to build, staff and maintain. You draw far fewer guests....but you charge them each MUCH higher admission fees.

Yep, I think Disney did want to copy what SeaWorld have done with the slightly more exclusive higher end Discovery Cove park. But instead they have found ways to build this into exisiting parks with things such as Harambe Nights and Wild Africa Trek.

I disagree that all Wild Africa Trek costs is Cast and food. There was outlay on the rope bridges and safety fall-restraint system. The harnesses worn by guests require regular safety checks and possible replacement. There is maintenance needed on trucks to give the safari. Yes, none of these are huge maintenance costs but compared to a firework dessert party the Trek does require a lot more safety-critical maintenance.

 

[OldsDr]

I don't think They will ever add a Fith full size theme park with everything else staying equal, especially peoples vacation habbits. For the here and now I would be upset if they did. I don't know what it costs to build a themepark, but as a consumer if they had put money aside for a Full fith gate I would rather see that money sread out among EP, DHS and AK. If they did start inmvesting like that it would probably increase attandance as much as a fith gate, especially some of the new stuff had Star Wars on it.