Rumor by agent - Blue Card min. going up

[CastAStone]

I toured on Tuesday At Riviera and my guide said 10/1.
So if I buy before then at 100 points, am I grandfathered in?

That has been what happened on previous increases.

 

[sethschroeder]

That has been what happened on previous increases.

Fairly sure its written in to the membership documents that it will be grandfathered and locked in. At least that is how I read it because once you have accumulated the required points you receive membership and the only way you lose access is when you sell your contract and benefits are not transferred.

You can read the contract here about benefits. You will see the outlined 100 point requirement currently in place which will be later updated to 125 but anyone prior no longer needs to qualify as they already have the membership benefit.

Key Phrase: "Effective September 17, 2019, to obtain a Disney Vacation Club Membership Card, Members must accumulate a total of at least 100 Vacation Points purchased directly from DVD."

You will notice it says to obtain (instead of to retain or have access to). Obviously there is probably some language how they can do whatever they want.

 

[zavandor]

Fairly sure its written in to the membership documents that it will be grandfathered and locked in. At least that is how I read it because once you have accumulated the required points you receive membership and the only way you lose access is when you sell your contract and benefits are not transferred.

You can read the contract here about benefits. You will see the outlined 100 point requirement currently in place which will be later updated to 125 but anyone prior no longer needs to qualify as they already have the membership benefit.

Key Phrase: "Effective September 17, 2019, to obtain a Disney Vacation Club Membership Card, Members must accumulate a total of at least 100 Vacation Points purchased directly from DVD."

You will notice it says to obtain (instead of to retain or have access to). Obviously there is probably some language how they can do whatever they want.

All DVC owners are members. The difference is between white and blue card. I do not think they must grandfather everyone, but they have always done and I think they'll continue to do so.
Except if they Decide to create two tiers, for example something like Platinum members who own at least 500 points. In that case they might decide to keep everyone grandfathered for the lower tier and require to purchase more points for the higher tier.

 

[Ruttangel]

Except if they Decide to create two tiers, for example something like Platinum members who own at least 500 points.

2 tiers of direct members would be controversial/all out revolution.

 

[Dean]

2 tiers of direct members would be controversial/all out revolution.

Maybe but it hasn’t been so with other companies who’ve instituted a VIP system into an existing timeshare system and they could have easily done so with Riviera. I don’t see DVC members voting with their wallets sufficiently to affect these decisions which would be the only way to combat such a change. In general I don’t buy the “people will complain” or “class action lawsuit” argument esp with DVC members.

 

[Ruttangel]

Maybe but it hasn’t been so with other companies who’ve instituted a VIP system into an existing timeshare system and they could have easily done so with Riviera. I don’t see DVC members voting with their wallets sufficiently to affect these decisions which would be the only way to combat such a change. In general I don’t buy the “people will complain” or “class action lawsuit” argument esp with DVC members.

I don’t know how much money Disney is losing at the minute but I guess they will need to get creative to act in their self interest

 

[Dean]

I don’t know how much money Disney is losing at the minute but I guess they will need to get creative to act in their self interest

IMO this is a change they should have done years ago but at this point in the game I doubt they go with a VIP system.

 

[Brian Noble]

IMO this is a change they should have done years ago but at this point in the game I doubt they go with a VIP system.

"The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now."
--Chinese proverb

 

[CarolMN]

"The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now."
--Chinese proverb

True, but I don't want a VIP system. I like things the way they are, LOL. I do like trees, though. Maybe DVC could just plant some trees instead.

 

[Dean]

"The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now."
--Chinese proverb

No doubt but there’s been far too many changes and water under the bridge for it to happen now IMO. And they had the perfect opportunity with Riviera to do so now if that was their goal.

 

[ScubaCat]

True, but I don't want a VIP system. I like things the way they are, LOL. I do like trees, though. Maybe DVC could just plant some trees instead.

I'd settle for planting some desk-mounted USB/outlets in the rooms that weren't broken half the time, but I digress.

No doubt but there’s been far too many changes and water under the bridge for it to happen now IMO. And they had the perfect opportunity with Riviera to do so now if that was their goal.

They kind of did with the resale booking restriction. Obviously they'll call it something different than "VIP" (if they even chose to call it anything at all), but that is basically what that is.

 

[sethschroeder]

All I can see is for certain discounts to be tied to when you are staying on points that were purchased direct.

Some examples:

• Ticket packages when 100% for stay are direct (20% discount on 1-10 day tickets)
• Dining plan discounts (DVC members have access to kitchens and the plans are overpriced so likely they could cut a 10=5-20% discount)

 

[Lorana]

All I can see is for certain discounts to be tied to when you are staying on points that were purchased direct.

Some examples:

• Ticket packages when 100% for stay are direct (20% discount on 1-10 day tickets)
• Dining plan discounts (DVC members have access to kitchens and the plans are overpriced so likely they could cut a 10=5-20% discount)

I am certainly hoping that they offer new *benefits* to members rather than just new promotions/incentives for purchasing more points.

 

[Dean]

I'd settle for planting some desk-mounted USB/outlets in the rooms that weren't broken half the time, but I digress.



They kind of did with the resale booking restriction. Obviously they'll call it something different than "VIP" (if they even chose to call it anything at all), but that is basically what that is.

Not in my view. A true VIP system would have several tiers with additional benefits for the higher tiers and likely removal of benefits or increased costs for the lower tiers. Things like additional banking flexibility, waitlist priority, lower vs higher fees like banking/borrowing, access to some exchange options at a lower price or not at all for the lowest VIP levels and access to some specialty events for the higher tiers to name a few. At this point I don't expect it but IF it does, it will have truly desirable benefits for those who are qualified, esp at higher levels, and not so much for those at lower levels or not qualified. IMO if they were going to do so but not years ago, Riviera was the perfect time. Make it a separate system along with any future resorts then create a crossover system only available by qualifying for the VIP with no grandfathering other than buying retail for the new resorts.

 

[ScubaCat]

Not in my view. A true VIP system would have several tiers with additional benefits for the higher tiers and likely removal of benefits or increased costs for the lower tiers. Things like additional banking flexibility, waitlist priority, lower vs higher fees like banking/borrowing, access to some exchange options at a lower price or not at all for the lowest VIP levels and access to some specialty events for the higher tiers to name a few. At this point I don't expect it but IF it does, it will have truly desirable benefits for those who are qualified, esp at higher levels, and not so much for those at lower levels or not qualified. IMO if they were going to do so but not years ago, Riviera was the perfect time. Make it a separate system along with any future resorts then create a crossover system only available by qualifying for the VIP with no grandfathering other than buying retail for the new resorts.

I think there's still a desire to keep it simple, though. I have no inside information (obviously) but by calling owners "members", there is at least an illusion that all owners are the same, if not at least comparable. If they did create tiers and depress resale value too far, it could someday impact direct sales. Not saying they're thinking in those terms now but it's certainly a long term consideration. If they ever do reach a max build out (where they're no longer building new properties and are starting to re-sell in 2042), that might change the calculation. I doubt I'll live to see that, though!

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I think there's still a desire to keep it simple, though. I have no inside information (obviously) but by calling owners "members", there is at least an illusion that all owners are the same, if not at least comparable. If they did create tiers and depress resale value too far, it could someday impact direct sales. Not saying they're thinking in those terms now but it's certainly a long term consideration. If they ever do reach a max build out (where they're no longer building new properties and are starting to re-sell in 2042), that might change the calculation. I doubt I'll live to see that, though!

IMO they used members at the start to give the illusion of a club - ala Mickey Mouse Club or Magic Kingdom Club. That's long gone though back to 2011 when they made it that people buying resale were not allowed to book the "member cruise" even with cash if they did not own some direct points. They use the term with the hope that people continue to feel like it is a club and not what it is - a timeshare.

 

[mercuryvenus]

By far the biggest benefit to buying direct is being able to stay at all DVC resorts. If you don’t buy direct, you lose out on RIV and almost certainly any resorts being built moving forward. Also, if they decide to re-authorize the existing resorts after 2042, they’ll almost certainly only be accessible to blue card members.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

By far the biggest benefit to buying direct is being able to stay at all DVC resorts. If you don’t buy direct, you lose out on RIV and almost certainly any resorts being built moving forward. Also, if they decide to re-authorize the existing resorts after 2042, they’ll almost certainly only be accessible to blue card members.

Since owning DVC isn't even a requirement to stay at any DVC resorts I'd disagree that is the biggest benefit. There are ways to stay at any DVC resort that you cannot trade into - rent a reservation from an owner that can book there and then rent our your own points to offset, pay cash thru CRO and have all the benefits of a cash booking (daily housekeeping, ability to cancel without penalties and get cash back) or transfer in points from someone that can book the 1 new resort that the most recent resale buyers cannot book at.

 

[sethschroeder]

Since owning DVC isn't even a requirement to stay at any DVC resorts I'd disagree that is the biggest benefit. There are ways to stay at any DVC resort that you cannot trade into - rent a reservation from an owner that can book there and then rent our your own points to offset, pay cash thru CRO and have all the benefits of a cash booking (daily housekeeping, ability to cancel without penalties and get cash back) or transfer in points from someone that can book the 1 new resort that the most recent resale buyers cannot book at.

I mean what is the biggest benefit of owning DVC in general? You just explained getting a hotel room is not a benefit. Yes I am being a little snarky here.

While I agree that staying in future resorts is not the biggest benefit it still is a benefit none the less. I think its a bigger thing in 2042 when Epcot disappears from the DVC resale landscape option but thats 21+ years from now.

My personal view is that Ticket discounts are the biggest benefit of direct DVC but that is only the first 100 (soon to be 125) points that you buy. After that its about RIV and future resorts because honestly once you get the blue card what else is left as a benefit of the points themselves?

 

[braysmommy]

My guide called me to tell me that they just received confirmation of the minimum is going up 10/1. We are still on the fence. We probably won’t purchase, I just can’t bring myself to spend $19,000.

This is us too. I sooo want to buy direct but having a very hard time spending $19,000 and the DVC rep I have been chatting with also confirmed minimum is going up 10/1.