Round 2: SSR v VWL

[ricapito]

Well, for any regulars who recall the "Seeking the weight of authority" post.... it seems as though some money we invested last June, and hadn't checked on, is up over $6k! So, the decision has been tentatively made to go forward for 150 points....

Since the group responses were so persuasive and well thought the first round, let's give it another try? Below are categories in a matchup between the two that includes our personal preferences. I can't say how each is weighted, as I don't know myself. As for "buy at the resort you most want to stay at" - I've never stayed in a DVC room, and have nothing to compare each resort to, haven't seen or "felt" any of them, so it's not that simple. All I can go on is general consensus. But to ignore other factors is impossible. Help make the call:

Category/Winner

Location: VWL while kids are young, no question, and SSR when they are older, maybe. For the adults, SSR hands down. Major league tough call for us on this.

Theme: Our tastes probably go with VWL, but SSR is a close second as our daughter (DD?) is obsessed with horses.

Initial Cost: VWL

Dues: SSR

Inheritance: SSR for the extra 12 years..

Resale: I'd bet as time dwindles down on these contracts-say 10 years from now, any initial cost savings at VWL would be met by a lower resale with SSR holding up better.

Risk: SSR has lots of units.... analogous to OKW, and OKW resale patterns scare me.

Amenities: SSR has a spa.

Pool: SSR will have a better pool.

Financing: SSR (but is now not a mandatory need)

Newness factor: SSR

On-site dining: VWL

So there you have it... thoughts? Also, when not in "Premier" or "Dream" season, during which I will rarely ever try to attend WDW after the last Christmas fiasco (I wasn't feeling the magic) ,and the because of bigger points requirements-honestly and truly how hard are 2br rentals 7 months out in the other periods, say Adventure through Dream? Truth is I think I'd like to try all the resorts at one point.

Thanks team,
Bryan

 

[jaysue]

Originally posted by ricapito
Well, for any regulars who recall the "Seeking the weight of authority" post.... it seems as though some money we invested last June, and hadn't checked on, is up over $6k! So, the decision has been tentatively made to go forward for 150 points....

Since the group responses were so persuasive and well thought the first round, let's give it another try? Below are categories in a matchup between the two that includes our personal preferences. I can't say how each is weighted, as I don't know myself. As for "buy at the resort you most want to stay at" - I've never stayed in a DVC room, and have nothing to compare each resort to, haven't seen or "felt" any of them, so it's not that simple. All I can go on is general consensus. But to ignore other factors is impossible. Help make the call:

***Maybe you should rent some points and go try out the resorts and tour around the DVC resorts while you are there - in essence the BWV, BCV, VWL, SSR rooms are the same size, amenities etc. - these come down to location (SSR and BWV do have Grand Villas but the points costs are quite high and I do not see this as a huge + factor for a 150pt owner) OKW rooms are much bigger (except for the studios which are a touch bigger)***

Category/Winner

Location: VWL while kids are young, no question, and SSR when they are older, maybe. For the adults, SSR hands down. Major league tough call for us on this.

***I actually think VWL is a great adults resort - quiet, peaceful, lodge theme. I see BCV/BWV due to the pools as great kids resorts. SSR would be a hands down if the key interests were golf, entertainment, downtown disney***

Theme: Our tastes probably go with VWL, but SSR is a close second as our daughter (DD?) is obsessed with horses.

***Yes a daughter is a DD as in Disney Daughter. Is SSR going to be that heavy horsed theme relative to the resort as VWL is so heavily themed as a wilderness type lodge?***

Initial Cost: VWL

Dues: SSR

***Hard to predict for sure that SSR dues will be lower than VWL in the long run - there have been some comments on the boards that ultimately the dues might end up very close to each other***

Inheritance: SSR for the extra 12 years..

***Yes there are 12 extra years - from a net present value perspective those 12 years are not worth much but they might be worth something to your kid(s) as they get older and take their kids***

Resale: I'd bet as time dwindles down on these contracts-say 10 years from now, any initial cost savings at VWL would be met by a lower resale with SSR holding up better.

***Applicable if you intend to sell SSR in the future otherwise it is an academic point***

Risk: SSR has lots of units.... analogous to OKW, and OKW resale patterns scare me.

***Not sure why the OKW resale patterns scare you***

Amenities: SSR has a spa.

***Yes but VWL>SSR is an easy trip (if you have a car)***

Pool: SSR will have a better pool.

***Yes, but with the slide addition OKW pool will rise in relative attractiveness***

Financing: SSR (but is now not a mandatory need)

Newness factor: SSR

On-site dining: VWL

***Yes***

So there you have it... thoughts? Also, when not in "Premier" or "Dream" season, during which I will rarely ever try to attend WDW after the last Christmas fiasco (I wasn't feeling the magic) ,and the because of bigger points requirements-honestly and truly how hard are 2br rentals 7 months out in the other periods, say Adventure through Dream? Truth is I think I'd like to try all the resorts at one point.

***Trying all the resorts is a great idea and goal - we have tried OKW, BCV, BWV and they are all good p[laces to stay - the only thing is be prepared to "have" to stay at your home resort as your base choice***

Thanks team,
Bryan

 

[Granny]

Bryan....if you don't think you'll be travelling much during the high demand DVC seasons, then I think you might be better off with SSR (as much as that pains the VWL-lover in me to say).

Main reasons...

I discount the location thing, personally. We use Disney transportation, and find that we are able to do everything we want to do with no big problems. So being close to MK or any other park isn't that big of a deal to us. Unless you like the "walk out the door and spend a half hour in a park" scenario that you can enjoy at BCV or BWV.

For us, theming is very important. But if you think that's a wash, then I'd discount it in your final decision.


I'm not sure why you're assuming that SSR dues will be lower than VWL, unless you're thinking that they will be very similar to OKW?? In any event, there's no guarantee on this one, so I'd discount that in your final decision too.

Inheritance: Personally, I think that if you don't have strong feelings about which resort you prefer, the 12 extra years of usage is a pretty big deal. From my rudimentary math skills, I believe that translates into 31% more years of usage. That's a pretty big number to me. And whether you can enjoy them or your kids do, it's worthy of consideration, IMHO.

Resale: Again, you asked for our opinions, so here's mine. I don't care about the resale value. I don't intend to sell. And if I'm forced to sell down the road, then I'll just take what the market will bear. So I discounted this...especially since nobody truly knows what will happen with the resale values down the road....it depends on some many factors.

Newness factor: I don't care about this, so I discounted it.

On-site dining: Actually, I would give the nod to SSR in that it's "food court" looks awesome, with enough variety to meet our normal needs. And though DTD is not "on-site", it's so close that I'd consider it to be virtually on-site for dining purposes.


Bottom line: For the extra years, proximity to DTD's dining and entertainment, and size (making home reservations pretty straightforward)....I'd vote for SSR for you.

IMHO....a resort like VWL is not a great choice for anyone who doesn't really enjoy the theming, location, and peacefulness of the Wilderness Lodge area.

 

[KLR-wlv]

We own at VWL and love it - but I have been to all of the DVC resorts and and love them all. With the waitlist - I've never had a problem going in any season but Premier at a 5-7 month time frame. But with more and more DVC members, that might end up being a problem later on. I'm sure SSR will be just as lovely as the other resorts. And while the dining there isn't much you are a hop away from DD which is nothing to sneeze at. I think staying there at New Years' - although you say never again - would be really fun. I think BCV are a tough place to beat with the pool and the proximity to Epcot and MGM and the Boardwalk. You have the parks, the dining, entertainment and a great pool all in one place. And if you went with BWV - the point schedule for standard view is on par with OKW - which certainly helps get you further with 150 pts. I think being close to a park is a huge perk - especially when it comes to reselling if you think it might be a possibility.

I've probably just confused you more! But if you're going to end up doing a resale - you don't have the time crunch of the "point increase" - maybe you could rent some points and go have a look to see which place is the best for you. If you can get 20 or so extra points for the same price as thru disney by going resale - go resale! If the extra years end up being important - I bet after SSR is sold out, they'll be building another one with the same expiration and you can do an add-on when you're out of school.

Good luck with the decision - you really can't go wrong with wherever you choose!

 

[HookdonWDW]

Originally posted by ricapito
Category/Winner
Location: VWL while kids are young, no question, and SSR when they are older, maybe. For the adults, SSR hands down. Major league tough call for us on this.

We really like the location of VWL. It's close enough to MK that you can get there easily (no need for a bus or TTC!), but remote enough that you feel relaxed and in another world when you are at the resort. While the kids are young, you also have a Kid's Club at VWL.

SSR has a great location if you're into PI and the nightlife available there. It will probably appeal to teens because of its proximity to the West Side and the movie theaters and Disney Quest. You can park right in front of your unit, eliminating the need for valet service and long walks to a central parking lot.

Theme: Our tastes probably go with VWL, but SSR is a close second as our daughter (DD?) is obsessed with horses.

If your tastes go towards VWL, then they probably walk away with this category... SSR has a "horse" theme, but VWL has real horses right down the walking path to FW!

Initial Cost: VWL

If your paying cash, you can come out better with a resale. Remember to calculate in any discount you'd be receiving from DVC towards SSR. Also, don't forget about closing costs and the lost value that goes along with a stripped contract. You could lose money with a resale if your not careful.

Dues: SSR

Dues are less at SSR at this point, but there is no guarantee that they will remain low in the future. VWL shares some costs with WL.

If/when the non-DVC part of SSR is built, it should have the same advantages. Since SSR is a bigger resort, you get to split the MF among more owners.

You will own SSR for 12 additional years - while this means 12 more years of use, it also means 12 more years of dues.

Inheritance: SSR for the extra 12 years..

Whether this is a positive or negative depends on whether your heirs share your love of DVC (hard to grasp I know, but some people "just don't get it" ). If they don't, they could be saddled with something for longer. Given the history of DVC I though, they should be able to sell SSR if the need arises.

Resale: I'd bet as time dwindles down on these contracts-say 10 years from now, any initial cost savings at VWL would be met by a lower resale with SSR holding up better.

I think you are correct, however I don't think SSR will hold up better if no other DVC II Resorts are built. Part of what makes DVC so popular is the fact that you can potentially stay at other resorts. When the DVC I Resorts go away, so does the ability to transfer to those resorts. Given the way points have been increasing for non-DVC options, new buyers may see a loss of value in the entire DVC concept.

Risk: SSR has lots of units.... analogous to OKW, and OKW resale patterns scare me.

I don't think that there is a large risk associated with owning at any of the DVC Resorts. Since there are more rooms and owners in the first place, you will probably see more resales at SSR. Since VWL is the smallest of the DVC Resorts, you will probably see the lowest number of resales available there in the long term. Remember though: More owners lowers the risk of a large increase in MFs. You're dividing them by many more owners.

Amenities: SSR has a spa.

The Spa is right at SSR, and is a nice touch. Very nice if you like Spa Treatments. DVC Members will receive a 20% discount on spa services. This discount is not guaranteed past the first 3 years.

VWL has a Health Club which is free of charge. Massage services are available for an additional fee.

Pool: SSR will have a better pool.

SSR's pool looks like it will be great. VWL has a very nice and very popular pool. At this point in time, you can hop to either of these pools during non-peak periods.

Financing: SSR (but is now not a mandatory need)

SSR wins hands down for simplicity since you can finance through DVD. I have no personal experience with it, but some people state that you can get a comparable deal through Tammac, and a much better deal if you use your home equity (although I personally don't like the idea of using my home equity to finance a luxury purchase).

Newness factor: SSR

Can't get much newer!!! DVC does maintain a frequent maintainance schedule, and does a good job at keeping the resorts looking "fresh". We had maintainance issues when we stayed at BCV on opening week.

On-site dining: VWL

VWL has more on-site eating options, and also offers room service. SSR is very close to all of the eating options at DTD, and the off-property restaurants at Crossroads.

So there you have it... thoughts? Also, when not in "Premier" or "Dream" season, during which I will rarely ever try to attend WDW after the last Christmas fiasco (I wasn't feeling the magic) ,and the because of bigger points requirements-honestly and truly how hard are 2br rentals 7 months out in the other periods, say Adventure through Dream? Truth is I think I'd like to try all the resorts at one point.

Adventure season (especially December) can be one of the HARDEST times to find what you want at a resort that isn't your home resort. Everyone likes a bargain, and that is especially true of DVCers. Adventure season tends to offer two of the things that members like most: low points, and low crowds.
As long as your flexible though, you should eventually be able to check out all of the other resorts at some point.

Have fun making your decision. What a great choice to have to make!!!

 

[tjkraz]

Another factor to consider: Ability to book non-home at 7 months.

If you choose SSR as your Home, I'm assuming you'll still want to spend some time at VWL. VWL is the smallest DVC property, meaning it could be fairly difficult to book if it is not your home.

Conversely, by the end of 2005, SSR will be the largest DVC property. Because there are so many more rooms, one can assume that SSR will be easier to book at 7 months if you buy into VWL.

 

[borncinderella]

I agree with tjkraz.

It seems to me that, tipping my hat to everything already said, it comes down to weighing which advantage means more to you.

Would you rather be able to trade? (Thus, have more freedom to book VWL at the holidays, for example?) Then choose VWL resale. You will always be able to get into SSR.

Would you rather be able to have the ability to book a GV at an 11 month time window (because, remember, VWL has no GV), and thus ensure that you would be able to have a large party in one place at some point? Then choose SSR. While you may always be able to get into SSR, my understanding is that GV are a different story. (This was a huge selling point for me.)

Just looking at the point values, for a start, SSR just gives you more "bang for your buck," and considering you are thinking about 150 points, I would not discount point values for rooms, either.

 

[Granny]

Originally posted by borncinderella
Just looking at the point values, for a start, SSR just gives you more "bang for your buck," and considering you are thinking about 150 points, I would not discount point values for rooms, either.

Ah, I knew there was another point I wanted to add. And borncinderella nailed it! Yes, I think the lower point structure for reservations is a BIG plus for SSR. That and the 12 extra years would tip me towards SSR if the VWL theming is not something you just "have to have". (like us)

 

[ClarabelleCow]

I personally would go with VWL, which we did!! But my reasonig was kind of what you suggested. You can almost always get something at OKW at the 7 month window, just maybe not a grand villa, because of its size, SSR will be huge also, VWL is small, so resales are few and far between. I am hoping the resale market will hold up at VWL because of the fact that there arn't that many.

 

[Tagrel]

Great points, so I'll just add a few personal sidebars. Since I know VWL, I'll stick to what we find to be positives of that resort. Its a VERY personal issue - everyone sees these thing differently.

We own at VWL and BCV - We love both locations and since they are the two smallest DVC properties, we will appreciate that 11 month window more as the DVC membership grows. As SSR settles in and grows larger than OKW, it will be much easier to get in there at 7 months or less, than VWL.

We love the theming at VWL and WL - I could sit in the WL lobby for hours, and the Iron Spike room is a wonderful and peaceful place to get away. The restaurants, are a great bonus, and having room service is always nice. Access to Bay Lake is wonderful, and we love taking out the boats, and being able to drive by not only WL, but GF, Polynesian, Contemporary and MK! The boats to MK and Contemporary are great, giving you quick access to the monorail and so all the amenities of the monorail resorts. And watching the Electric Water Pagent from the beach is always fun.

I don't know if SSR will have Valet parking or not, but its a HUGE plus at VWL. That parking lot is a HAUL! And speaking of a haul, SSR will be much more spread out as OKW is. Depending on unit assignment, walking to the pool, restaurants, main buildings etc. could be very lengthy. VWL distances are at most the length of that LONG hallway. And its also nice having covered pathways into the main resort, so you don't get soaked going to dinner. Its even covered all the way to the buses (which are closer to the Villas than they are to the lodge)

So those are what we find to be benefits of VWL. Probably the best thing to do is list them side by side with all the SSR benefits, and choose those that are most important to your family.

Last, even if I was buying today, VWL would win for us hands down for all the reasons I listed above. The extra 12 years doesn't sway me at all. For all I know my kids won't want or possibly be able to afford the maintenance fees by then. And a timeshare with just 12 years left might be tough to sell...

 

[disneyberry]

<font face="times" size="+0">things which i agree that i don't think you should count towards your decision because you cannot possibly accurately predict:

Dues: it's like the stock market. just because dues have increased at a certain rate in the past doesn't mean they will continue to increase at the same rate in the future. you can take a look at my Dues History Tables if you're curious, but really the analysis is more for fun and speculation, and in the end, it doesn't make a difference. if you are even worried that one resort might have higher dues than another, that is not a good sign. financially, the dues differences should not make a big difference if you truly can afford DVC.

Inheritance: again, i mention that, from my perpective, the primary reason you seem to require DVC right now is so that you can spend time with your family/children while they are growing up. so those extra 12 years... NOT important right <i>now</i>, right? your kids will all be adults by the time 2042 comes around. how do you know they will even want to own DVC when they are adults? sure, you can start the never-ending cycle of dependence on Disney right now by bringing them to WDW every year, but you never know... maybe your kids will break out of the cycle and NOT want to vacation at WDW when they reach their adult lives.

Resale + Risk: this should not matter. are you really planning on selling DVC in the future? do not count on being able to make any money back, and assume for the worst. if we're talking about relative value, then i disagree that SSR will hold up better. VWL is a smaller resort, has a smaller number of owners, and is in a prime location next to MK. remember basic economics: supply vs. demand. i assume this is what you meant when you were talking about OKW resale patterns. (higher OKW resale supply = lower OKW resale prices)


things that i agree are important to your decision:

Location + Theme: "buy where you want to stay". or more realistically - buy where you will not be disappointed if <i>every single WDW trip for the rest of your ownership was spent there</i>.

i actually advise against buying sight unseen, and agree with suggestions of rentings points to stay at, or at least going to visit the 5 WDW DVC resorts BEFORE buying. i made the mistake of buying OKW sight unseen. from pictures and descriptions on the internet, i believed that DBF and i would like OKW. however, our first trip home after becoming members, we tried OKW, and were disappointed. we spent half a year going through the fiasco of "changing home resorts" to fix that initial mistake we made. (our home resort is now BWV.) of course, your family may not be as particular as us... many people love all the DVC resorts. but i still think it's safer to at least visit all the resorts before deciding on a home resort.

also, i agree with the suggestion about how your DD (a.k.a. Dear Daughter, or some consider it to mean Disney Daughter) can easily walk over to FW for horseback rides where there are REAL horses vs. the horse theme only of SSR. heh.

Initial Cost: a resale will be cheaper. just be smart about it, and find a good value resale. ask here for advice, obviously we are all willing to help out. also, if you're buying SSR, you have a time limit where you may need to rush into the purchase. if you're going resale, you can and should take your time to find a good resale. this might be good because in theory you'll keep up your saving, and by the time you do buy resale, you'll have more money available... even if it's only a little more.

Amenities, Pool, Newness, Dining: these are all things that are part of "buy where you want to stay", and also things you can evaluate if you actually take the time to visit the resorts first.

my final comment is to reiterate that some months in Adventure + Choice seasons (Oct, Nov, Dec) are incredibly hard to book at 7mos out. if you're planning to avoid Oct, Nov, and Dec, then maybe it's not a big deal. but if those were the months you were going to travel, then the 11mo booking window will mean a lot, especially as the DVC membership grows, and more members compete for non-home resorts at the 7mo window. </font>

 

[Dizzie]

Pool: Interestingly enough, my kids (9, 5, 2) enjoyed the pool at VWL more than SAB last October. Go figure!

 

[zulaya]

Not owning at SSR or VWL, I'll put my $0.02 in here.

VWL for me is an excellent theme...you can't beat it at Xmas. But I feel it is slightly isolated. Is that bad? Absolutely not. Yes, it has the boat to MK, and really, I do love the theme. But I don't know that I want to own there. It's the old "buy where you want to stay" thing. Sure, I'd like to try VWL at one point, but I am not in any hurry. I also think the pool is just fine. Everyone thinks the slide is the biggest deal. My kids truthfully just love the water. The slide is cool, but we spend just as much time in quiet pools as in theme pools.

SSR sounds great as well. I think owning here with the lower points structure is a huge advantage, giving you more flexibility with your points. Downtown Disney is a little more centrally located, whether you use Disney transportation or not. And, important to me, there are GVs at SSR, that you will have the 11 month window for. Not that I'd use it on a regular basis, but for the times I would like to, that would be a real plus in my book to have that option. SSR's pool does sounds fabulous as well.

The newness isn't an issue for me. The spa issue isn't an issue for me. If you aren't at SSR, you can still make a ressie for the spa and drive over.

I guess if it were me, I'd look at how many points I could get with my money. With SSR's prices going up (or have they already gone up), the difference between a new SSR contract and a VWL resale could make the difference. The only thing is that VWL contracts of the right size can be difficult to find sometimes and you would have to wait through ROFR and all that other stuff that goes along with a resale.

I guess if prices weren't an issue, I'd pick SSR.

 

[crisi]

There is a very nice spa at the Grand Floridian - a boat ride away from you if you are at the WL. As well as excellent golf courses not far away. The thing that end of the World is lacking is nightlife - where SSR and OKW have DTD, and BCV and BV have the Boardwalk, the MK resorts are a little quieter. For us that wouldn't be bad. We think the pool at WL is quite nice - and you have the Electrical Water Pagent and easy access to watching Wishes (from the CR dock - although we've been able to see high ones from the Lodge itself).

To me the extended contract doesn't make much difference. We don't intend to burden our children with Disney vacations as an inheritence (I hope my children are as fortunate as us and can afford them, but I don't want them to feel obligated or feel they must carry on their parents preferences. My parents have a lake home - I'm well familiar with the prospect inherieting something quite nice, but at the same time with responsibilities you may not have chosen for yourself - its a double edge sword. Yes, when (if) I inherient my parents place I could sell it - but it would break my heart to do so, knowing my dad intends to "keep it in the family.")