Room liability associated with renting points

[we"reofftoneverland]

Ok, thank you for clarifying. I’m in no rush to rent my points, but I do know the day will come when I have/want to rent them. It would be nice if there was a way to see the history of renters. As in, if people rented points previously through the rent/trade forum it would be great if there was a way to see if those people were “good renters”.

Like an Uber rating— good idea.

unfortunately yes you are liable, sucks

 

[DVCSunDevil]

Like an Uber rating— good idea.

unfortunately yes you are liable, sucks

Yes, precisely like an Uber rating! And just like Uber, it would be great if it worked both ways. As in, if the owners/members also had a rating. That would take some of the risk out of it for both renters and owners. Renters could then have more visibility to the owners past rental history, good or bad. For renters it goes beyond just "is this person going to scam me out of my money". Potential renters also worry about things like "how responsive is this owner going to be if I need to make changes to the reservation". Knowing they could get dinged and get a negative review for not being responsive would probably keep the owner engaged throughout the entire process.

The same benefit would apply to the owners, since they could now see if renters had a history of damage (probably not that likely anyway) or not paying their final bill at the resort. Stuff like that.

I think this would be a fantastic idea.

 

[gisele2]

Airbnb works like this also it is a great idea. I am thinking of renting or transfering, but I am scared of the liability. So looking at RCI...

 

[LAX]

Yes, precisely like an Uber rating! And just like Uber, it would be great if it worked both ways. As in, if the owners/members also had a rating. That would take some of the risk out of it for both renters and owners. Renters could then have more visibility to the owners past rental history, good or bad. For renters it goes beyond just "is this person going to scam me out of my money". Potential renters also worry about things like "how responsive is this owner going to be if I need to make changes to the reservation". Knowing they could get dinged and get a negative review for not being responsive would probably keep the owner engaged throughout the entire process.

The same benefit would apply to the owners, since they could now see if renters had a history of damage (probably not that likely anyway) or not paying their final bill at the resort. Stuff like that.

I think this would be a fantastic idea.

This is indeed a great idea. Perhaps a "network" of owners here on DIS would be willing to share and compile such information.

LAX

 

[DVCSunDevil]

This is indeed a great idea. Perhaps a "network" of owners here on DIS would be willing to share and compile such information.

LAX

I wish I was more educated on computer/web page design. I would assume there would be a way for the DISboard to add a feature like this to each person's account. So after someone rents from you, you can go into their account and click on a link that would enable you to rate them with comments. Same for the renters to do with the owners. Then the owners and renters could have their average score (like Uber does) displayed under that "rental info" (for example) link in their account. Not sure how hard that would be to do, but it doesn't seem like it would be too difficult.

 

[GoingSince1990]

I wish I was more educated on computer/web page design. I would assume there would be a way for the DISboard to add a feature like this to each person's account. So after someone rents from you, you can go into their account and click on a link that would enable you to rate them with comments. Same for the renters to do with the owners. Then the owners and renters could have their average score (like Uber does) displayed under that "rental info" (for example) link in their account. Not sure how hard that would be to do, but it doesn't seem like it would be too difficult.

I’m guessing that this may open too big of a legal can of worms for a website that is not a behemoth with a high-priced legal team like Uber, Yelp or Airbnb.

 

[DVCSunDevil]

I’m guessing that this may open too big of a legal can of worms for a website that is not a behemoth with a high-priced legal team like Uber, Yelp or Airbnb.

Yeah, maybe. It was just an idea. It would be awesome if there was a way for them to do it. Being able to see if someone is a reputable renter or owner would be helpful.

 

[LAX]

I’m guessing that this may open too big of a legal can of worms for a website that is not a behemoth with a high-priced legal team like Uber, Yelp or Airbnb.

For this and other less obvious reasons, I don't think DIS would be interested in getting involved even if there is a financial incentive. I was thinking more along the line where a "list of reliable renters" would circulate amongst owners who are willing to participate.

LAX

 

[DVCSunDevil]

For this and other less obvious reasons, I don't think DIS would be interested in getting involved even if there is a financial incentive. I was thinking more along the line where a "list of reliable renters" would circulate amongst owners who are willing to participate.

LAX

Yeah, that would be a good idea. If they did that you could always search by renters name to see if they were in there without having to read through the whole thread.

 

[sndral]

Score one for point transfers vs point renting I suppose. I assume if you transfer your points, the person who uses them would be the one liable in the event of a damaged room?

I thought receiving compensation for transferred points (aka ‘renting’ transferred points) was expressly forbidden by DVC? Not that there’s any real way to enforce that restriction I suppose.

 

[EM Lawrence]

I thought receiving compensation for transferred points (aka ‘renting’ transferred points) was expressly forbidden by DVC? Not that there’s any real way to enforce that restriction I suppose.

You are correct. It is expressly forbidden. But it obviously happens on a regular basis.

 

[GoingSince1990]

I thought receiving compensation for transferred points (aka ‘renting’ transferred points) was expressly forbidden by DVC? Not that there’s any real way to enforce that restriction I suppose.

On the contrary, renting points is expressly permitted by DVC.

Subsection 4.1 Club Member Rentals A Club Member may make a reservation to use the accommodations of the Condominium or other DVC Resorts, if any, himself, make their use available to family or friends or guests, or rent them solely through his own efforts. DVD's approval of a rental by a Club Member is not required after a reservation has been made in the renter's own name, and Club Members are permitted to rent their occupancy rights on terms and conditions that they may establish. No rental assistance is being offered by DVC or DVC or any affiliate or subsidiary of DVD and DVC. All renters must comply with the rules and regulations affecting occupancy , and the renting Club Member will be responsible for the acts or omissions of his renters or any other person or persons permitted by the Club Member to use the accommodation. Neither DVD or DVC in any way represent or promote that a particular DVC Resort accommodation can be rented, or if it is rented, that any particular rental rate can be obtained for such rental."

What Disney does not like is "commercial" renting which it has defined as when someone makes more than 20 reservations in a 12-month period.

Commercial Use Policy. The Disney Vacation Club (DVC) Public Offering Statement makes it clear that DVC memberships are intended for personal vacation use. The Declaration of Condominium and the Membership Agreement for the Resort expressly limits the use of Ownership Interests to personal use and prohibits use for “commercial purposes,” – a pattern of rental activity or other occupancy by an Owner that the Board of the Association, in its reasonable discretion, could conclude constitutes a commercial enterprise or activity.

DVC Members may make as many reservations as they desire. However, if, in any 12-month period, a DVC Member desires to make more than 20 reservations, the DVC Member shall be required to establish, to the satisfaction of the Board, that all of the reservations made by the DVC Member in such 12-month period are for the use of accommodations by the DVC Member, the DVC Member’s family and/or the DVC Member’s friends (collectively, “Personal Use”), and not for commercial purposes. If, in any 12-month period in which a DVC Member attempts to make more than 20 reservations but is unable to establish, to the satisfaction of the Board, that all such reservations are for Personal Use and not for commercial purposes, all reservations in excess of the first 20 reservations shall be presumed to be the use of Vacation Accommodations for commercial purposes in violation of the Declaration and the Membership Agreement (the “Multiple Reservation Rule”).

 

[treborq]

https://dvcrequest.com/ I have used David's for years, hassle free quick money, easy process.

 

[CarolMN]

I thought receiving compensation for transferred points (aka ‘renting’ transferred points) was expressly forbidden by DVC? Not that there’s any real way to enforce that restriction I suppose.

You are correct. It is expressly forbidden. But it obviously happens on a regular basis.

On the contrary, renting points is expressly permitted by DVC.

What Disney does not like is "commercial" renting which it has defined as when someone makes more than 20 reservations in a 12-month period.

Yes - Members are "prohibited from receiving compensation for engaging in any transferring of Vacation Points".

SOURCE: The official transferring rules from the Members' Website - Transferring_rules_final.pdf

 

[GoingSince1990]

Yes - Members are "prohibited from receiving compensation for engaging in any transferring of Vacation Points".

SOURCE: The official transferring rules from the Members' Website - Transferring_rules_final.pdf

Sorry, I missed the word "transferred". My bad. So in terms of what is and is not allowed by DVC:
1. It is expressly PROHIBITED for a DVC member to receive payment in exchange for points being transferred (Jim pays Bob $1400 in exchange for Bob transferring 100 points to Jim);
2. But it is expressly PERMITTED for a DVC member to receive payment in exchange for renting points by making a reservation for someone (Jim pays Bob $1400 in exchange for Bob making a DVC reservation for Jim to use). (Subject to the "commercial activity" caveat of making 20 or more reservations in a 12 month period).

 

[DVCSunDevil]

Sorry, I missed the word "transferred". My bad. So in terms of what is and is not allowed by DVC:
1. It is expressly PROHIBITED for a DVC member to receive payment in exchange for points being transferred (Jim pays Bob $1400 in exchange for Bob transferring 100 points to Jim);
2. But it is expressly PERMITTED for a DVC member to receive payment in exchange for renting points by making a reservation for someone (Jim pays Bob $1400 in exchange for Bob making a DVC reservation for Jim to use). (Subject to the "commercial activity" caveat of making 20 or more reservations in a 12 month period).

Wait, I thought other members typically paid for points if they were transferred. So if I transferred 200 points to another member, I am not allowed to get paid for those points? Interesting. I read other threads that discussed how transferring was safer than renting because you still get the money for the points but there is less risk.

 

[CarolMN]

Wait, I thought other members typically paid for points if they were transferred. So if I transferred 200 points to another member, I am not allowed to get paid for those points? Interesting. I read other threads that discussed how transferring was safer than renting because you still get the money for the points but there is less risk.

The "no compensation" clause is there to protect Disney. If there is any dispute over the transfer, Disney will not get involved and the aggrieved party is on his/her own. Transfers are final. MS generally treats them as "Don't ask, Don't tell".

 

[DVC Doctor]

https://dvcrequest.com/ I have used David's for years, hassle free quick money, easy process.

Well, that was probably before covid.....hmmmm, just saying

 

[DVCSunDevil]

The "no compensation" clause is there to protect Disney. If there is any dispute over the transfer, Disney will not get involved and the aggrieved party is on his/her own. Transfers are final. MS generally treats them as "Don't ask, Don't tell".

Got it. Makes sense. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[sndral]

The "no compensation" clause is there to protect Disney. If there is any dispute over the transfer, Disney will not get involved and the aggrieved party is on his/her own. Transfers are final. MS generally treats them as "Don't ask, Don't tell".

I wonder why the rules are so different.
One difference is that transferring points is final, v. if you cancel a rented point reservations you at least get your points back (whether you can use them before they expire is another matter - especially if they end up in holding & you can’t ‘unborrow’ any points you used for the reservation.)
Another difference is that since DVC will only talk to the member, they are protected from being in the middle of a dispute between an owner & a renter. Whereas w/ a transfer both parties are members, so theoretically either or both parties could try to drag DVC into the dispute.
Also, you can only do one transfer a year, whereas you can make as many reservations as you have the points to make, & you can cancel those reservations too w/out penalty except as noted above, so maybe that has something to do w/ it.
When DVC started & the rules were written renting points was not nearly the industry it now is, so I guess the ‘no commercial renting’ was deemed sufficient to prevent whatever was a concern at that time and for some reason they envisioned greater problems could arise from transferring? My recollection from when I first bought & researched things was that the definition of ’commercial’ wasn’t fixed, but my impression was that DVC could further limit renting by how they chose to interpret commercial. I didn’t focus much on the renting aspect, tho’, so might be misremembering.