ROFR Thread January to March 2021 *PLEASE SEE FIRST POST FOR INSTRUCTIONS & FORMATTING TOOL*

[gskywalker]

What was the banked point situation on your contract?

I'm beginning to think that Disney will be implementing FROR on fairly priced contracts with heavily banked points vs letting them go in the past. When you think about it....with all the heavy loaded contracts due to COVID-19, Disney is not only getting points on the cheap and resell them at a significant profit but they are taking a massive amount of points out of the system in 21/22 . This actually helps existing members and Disney with availability given the nightmare of a situation that is COVID and loaded contracts. Heck, Disney might want to move those rooms from DVC point inventory to Disney cash inventory.

I can also see Disney not wanting people like me to get in essence a "free stay" (due to the banked points) with a retail value in the thousands. They probably figure that someone that is buying a loaded contract already has their mind made to go to Disney in the next 12 months...so if I'm Disney...I'm thinking....let me take these points, resell them at a massive profit, eliminate from the system the banked points and force the buyer to go fetch me another good deal...or pay a higher price....and maybe even cash.

It's working...because I already told my family that we were well on our way to become DVC members. Daughters were stoked, and now they're sad. I feel now obligated to get us to Disney somehow someway within the next 12 months, but don't want to pay cash / rent anymore. I'm even pondering buying 125 direct....which Disney wou 7ld LOVE as their "evil" plan worked to perfection.

I'm now scouting for international sellers in hope that Disney stays away from those.

I'm even trying to convince myself to buy Riviera....just can't pull the trigger given immediate devaluation and resale restrictions. CCV really expensive right now...and the availability issue scares me.

I actually was thinking thinking the same thing about international sellers. Can you please advise if there is a secret to getting those contacts to save me some time. I found one site which shows international seller without having to enter each individual contact, otherwise I haven't seen an easy way to find them.

 

[gskywalker]

I have purchased from an international seller in the past just make sure the title company holds the firpta tax in escrow. My sellers had applied for an exemption but the US gov denied it so about a year later I got the bill for the tax instead. Luckily the title company was able to get the sellers to pay it, otherwise I would have been stuck with the bill.

I am confused, how can a person deny paying the tax bill if it is automatically taken from the sale price??

 

[20000LeaguesUnderTheSea]

I actually was thinking thinking the same thing about international sellers. Can you please advise if there is a secret to getting those contacts to save me some time. I found one site which shows international seller without having to enter each individual contact, otherwise I haven't seen an easy way to find them.

In my crazy surfing for contracts the past 2 weeks, I came across ONE site that you can filter for international seller; all others you had to go into the individual contract and some didn't even include it there. I'll see if I can backtrack and run into the site again.

 

[princesscinderella]

I am confused, how can a person deny paying the tax bill if it is automatically taken from the sale price??

It wasn’t taken from them at closing because they had applied for a waiver of the tax instead. I think the reason they thought they would get the taxes waived was due a loss in their end on the sale of the contract. Uncle Sam still wanted it’s money.

 

[gskywalker]

It wasn’t taken from them at closing because they had applied for a waiver of the tax instead. I think the reason they thought they would get the taxes waived was due a loss in their end on the sale of the contract. Uncle Sam still wanted it’s money.

Except the idea is that the taxes are collected for any profit gained. If there is no profit it can be collected from seller let alone the buyer. It's Crazy they would try to get it from you.

 

[princesscinderella]

Except the idea is that the taxes are collected for any profit gained. If there is no profit it can be collected from seller let alone the buyer. It's Crazy they would try to get it from you.

I just looked it up on the irs website and it says this:


disposition means “disposition” for any purpose of the Internal Revenue Code. This includes but is not limited to a sale or exchange, liquidation, redemption, gift, transfers, etc. Persons purchasing U.S. real property interests (transferees) from foreign persons, certain purchasers' agents, and settlement officers are required to withhold 15% (10% for dispositions before February 17, 2016) of the amount realized on the disposition (special rules for foreign corporations).
In most cases, the transferee/buyer is the withholding agent. If you are the transferee/buyer, you must find out if the transferor is a foreign person. If the transferor is a foreign person and you fail to withhold, you may be held liable for the tax. For cases in which a U.S. business entity such as a corporation or partnership disposes of a U.S. real property interest, the business entity itself is the withholding agent.

I as US buyer was responsible for the withholding of the tax and since it wasn’t paid at closing they sent me the bill. So just make sure if you are buying international contracts this is addressed in your closing. I was not aware of the in and outs at the time and we bought in 2015 when the amount was 10%, now it’s 15%. I’d hate for anyone to get stuck with the bill.

 

[gskywalker]

I just looked it up on the irs website and it says this:


disposition means “disposition” for any purpose of the Internal Revenue Code. This includes but is not limited to a sale or exchange, liquidation, redemption, gift, transfers, etc. Persons purchasing U.S. real property interests (transferees) from foreign persons, certain purchasers' agents, and settlement officers are required to withhold 15% (10% for dispositions before February 17, 2016) of the amount realized on the disposition (special rules for foreign corporations).
In most cases, the transferee/buyer is the withholding agent. If you are the transferee/buyer, you must find out if the transferor is a foreign person. If the transferor is a foreign person and you fail to withhold, you may be held liable for the tax. For cases in which a U.S. business entity such as a corporation or partnership disposes of a U.S. real property interest, the business entity itself is the withholding agent.

I as US buyer was responsible for the withholding of the tax and since it wasn’t paid at closing they sent me the bill. So just make sure if you are buying international contracts this is addressed in your closing. I was not aware of the in and outs at the time and we bought in 2015 when the amount was 10%, now it’s 15%. I’d hate for anyone to get stuck with the bill.

To correct above, it was supposed to say can't charge you for it as opposed to can. It won't be a problem for me as I am an international. If I lose my AKV contract then it will be 4 contracts in a row that Disney has taken from me so I like the idea of finding an international seller to prevent Disney from taking it. Same as I am considering buying aulani so that Disney won't take it

 

[princesscinderella]

To correct above, it was supposed to say can't charge you for it as opposed to can. It won't be a problem for me as I am an international. If I lose my AKV contract then it will be 4 contracts in a row that Disney has taken from me so I like the idea of finding an international seller to prevent Disney from taking it. Same as I am considering buying aulani so that Disney won't take it

I copy and pasted that information directly from the IRS website so I don’t know what you are correcting. I have a hard time believing that the information on there is incorrect.

I hope you are able to get your next deal through that’s so much time to be stuck in the ROFR loop only to have it taken from you.

 

[pangyal]

Eric Smith---$227-$22700-100-VGC-APR-0/19, 0/20, 100/21-seller pays MF '20- sent 1/7

Hopefully I formatted that right. We're really hoping this passes ROFR. We were planning to buy direct at the new Disneyland Tower, but started getting spooked by talk of how high the cost per point would be plus the increase to the 125 point blue card minimum. This fit pretty well for us since our current contract has a March use year.

Can you include all extra fees and closing costs please?

 

[pangyal]

Updated!

 

[gskywalker]

I copy and pasted that information directly from the IRS website so I don’t know what you are correcting. I have a hard time believing that the information on there is incorrect.

I hope you are able to get your next deal through that’s so much time to be stuck in the ROFR loop only to have it taken from you.

Sorry, I was correcting my own message not yours. I sometimes miss what autoswype types.

 

[20000LeaguesUnderTheSea]

To correct above, it was supposed to say can't charge you for it as opposed to can. It won't be a problem for me as I am an international. If I lose my AKV contract then it will be 4 contracts in a row that Disney has taken from me so I like the idea of finding an international seller to prevent Disney from taking it. Same as I am considering buying aulani so that Disney won't take it

4 in a row? Man....I wonder if Disney is going FROR crazy and brokers are not picking it up since the volume is split across so many of them.

 

[Kickstart]

What was the banked point situation on your contract?

I'm beginning to think that Disney will be implementing FROR on fairly priced contracts with heavily banked points vs letting them go in the past. When you think about it....with all the heavy loaded contracts due to COVID-19, Disney is not only getting points on the cheap and resell them at a significant profit but they are taking a massive amount of points out of the system in 21/22 . This actually helps existing members and Disney with availability given the nightmare of a situation that is COVID and loaded contracts. Heck, Disney might want to move those rooms from DVC point inventory to Disney cash inventory.

...

I was also wondering the same thing. DVC must be concerned about the excess points in the system. There could be a very real probability of members not being able to book rooms, even at +7 months for their home resort or at the 7 month mark for non-home resorts.

I'm new to DVC, but from what I've read/heard it seems like there was always enough "play" in the system that you could find somewhere to stay at the 7 month mark (i.e. you can always find a rooms at SRS). I wonder if during the 2021 UY's some members will be unable to book a useable vacation at the 7 month mark (or earlier at their home resort)... maybe they can find a rooms here and there, but not practical unless you can string them together, effectively forcing members into breakage.

 

[shawy1269]

Shawy1269---$108-$13274-100-AKV-Jun-100/19, 98/20, 100/21, 100/22- sent 1/7

 

[gskywalker]

4 in a row? Man....I wonder if Disney is going FROR crazy and brokers are not picking it up since the volume is split across so many of them.

Haven't heard on the 4th one yet. The first 3 were BLT, the one I am waiting on is AKV, $92, 270 points, full 21 and beyond points. Hoping to get lucky that it passes but I would bet against it. No one has gotten this low of a price (on the dis list at least) other than during the no ROFR time. Otherwise I am hoping that maybe they don't like that it is 5 contracts (5 contact in one sale) for some reason, maybe it's a lot of extra paperwork?? I can hope at least

 

[shawy1269]

Shawy1269---$108-$13274-100-AKV-Jun-100/19, 98/20, 100/21, 100/22- sent 1/7

I am paying MF for 21 and the 98 points from 20. There are 100 banked points from 19 expiring 5/31 that I intend to rent out and put toward the loan. Hoping for a quick closing to be able to do that!

 

[Atinsley22]

What was the banked point situation on your contract?

I'm beginning to think that Disney will be implementing FROR on fairly priced contracts with heavily banked points vs letting them go in the past. When you think about it....with all the heavy loaded contracts due to COVID-19, Disney is not only getting points on the cheap and resell them at a significant profit but they are taking a massive amount of points out of the system in 21/22 . This actually helps existing members and Disney with availability given the nightmare of a situation that is COVID and loaded contracts. Heck, Disney might want to move those rooms from DVC point inventory to Disney cash inventory.

I can also see Disney not wanting people like me to get in essence a "free stay" (due to the banked points) with a retail value in the thousands. They probably figure that someone that is buying a loaded contract already has their mind made to go to Disney in the next 12 months...so if I'm Disney...I'm thinking....let me take these points, resell them at a massive profit, eliminate from the system the banked points and force the buyer to go fetch me another good deal...or pay a higher price....and maybe even cash.

It's working...because I already told my family that we were well on our way to become DVC members. Daughters were stoked, and now they're sad. I feel now obligated to get us to Disney somehow someway within the next 12 months, but don't want to pay cash / rent anymore. I'm even pondering buying 125 direct....which Disney would LOVE as their "evil" plan worked to perfection.

I'm now scouting for international sellers in hope that Disney stays away from those.

I'm even trying to convince myself to buy Riviera....just can't pull the trigger given immediate devaluation and resale restrictions. CCV really expensive right now...and the availability issue scares me.

I had not considered this but it makes absolute sense. The 160 pt contract we are waiting on has 259 2020 points but from this thread it appears we paid ($115 AKV) a little more than necessary hopefully that’ll save us.

 

[20000LeaguesUnderTheSea]

I had not considered this but it makes absolute sense. The 160 pt contract we are waiting on has 259 2020 points but from this thread it appears we paid ($115 AKV) a little more than necessary hopefully that’ll save us.

Im hoping that my BWV contract now goes through since it is an international seller. I was then looking to add on about 100 - 150. Might do that with a stripped contract to try and avoid ROFR. As much as I would like 2 loaded contracts...even if I get them...thinking it will be tough to book this year.

 

[Eric Smith]

Can you include all extra fees and closing costs please?

Fixed

 

[Ginamarie]

Just bid on a Riviera resale contract- we fell in love with Riviera after doing the DVC Tour. It’s an international seller- crossing my fingers that he accepts the offer!