Riviera Resale

[striker1064]

I totally agree except for one small detail. The legacy 14 resorts aren't entirely unrestricted. If I understand correctly resale contracts at legacy 14 resorts are not eligible for use at RIV or any future resorts. So in 2042 you have several resorts expiring. Who knows if in 2042 you can use AKV points at BCV or not. I don't think there is anything that indicates what DVD's plan is once resorts start expiring.

Well, I think the idea is the remaining L14 resale can still be used between each other. If you like several of the resorts now, enough to buy them, that's not likely to change much. But any new resort resale will always be just one resort. Even in 2042, there will still be AKV, OKW, SSR, CCV, BLT, PVB, VGF available for new and existing resale owners of those resorts.

 

[Turn the Page]

Well, I think the idea is the remaining L14 resale can still be used between each other. If you like several of the resorts now, enough to buy them, that's not likely to change much. But any new resort resale will always be just one resort. Even in 2042, there will still be AKV, OKW, SSR, CCV, BLT, PVB, VGF available for new and existing resale owners of those resorts.

Sure, but as time goes on the number of resorts you can use them on gets lower and lower.

 

[Sandisw]

I totally agree except for one small detail. The legacy 14 resorts aren't entirely unrestricted. If I understand correctly resale contracts at legacy 14 resorts are not eligible for use at RIV or any future resorts. So in 2042 you have several resorts expiring. Who knows if in 2042 you can use AKV points at BCV or not. I don't think there is anything that indicates what DVD's plan is once resorts start expiring.

ETA: Nevermind. I see you already made that point.

I think its a good bet that the 2042 resorts, with today’s thinking of DVD, will be considered new resorts and therefore, not available for booking by resale,

The change with RIV IMO supports that as a long range plan with today’s executives.

Having said that, 22 years is a long time and none of us can predict what will actually happen especially given that the people in charge will very well include different people.

I do believe point charts will be similar to RIV as we have seen that happen as new resorts came onboard from BLT forward,

 

[dvc lover 1970]

Part of the value in purchasing DVC is the ability to book at various resorts, and while I usually do book my home resorts, I like the ability to book other resorts and have tried all the resorts. I have long thought about an AKV addition. If DVC locked you into one resort with a force transfer to RCI if you do not use the points, I do not think I would purchase DVC. I stand by this decision at RIV is a bad management decision and whoever is in charge should be demoted. This is not in the best interest long term of DVC and I fear it will downgrade future purchases.

 

[havoc315]

I think this makes the old resorts more appealing.

Compare BLT chart to RIV. The charts are inflating. That's why right now the 2042 point charts are so appealing and it's impossible to get a BW/BCV studio. Those contracts are worth so much at the very end because of the legacy charts. The exact same thing can happen to BLT, and it has an awesome location (like BCV/BWV).

Especially if the future DVC is in meh locations, like RIV and Reflections, the old properties could really be looking good.

But there will be no old BVC/BWV -- They may be abolished and replaced with something entirely new, or they may simply have a little renovation and sold as new contracts. Either way, they will be on the restricted list.

So, in 2042... if you buy resale, there won't be ANY resorts in the Epcot area that you can use. Yes, you'll have access to the Magic Kingdom resorts, but zero access to the Epcot area.
In addition, you'll be stuck to pretty short contracts...
Imagine again you are a buyer in 2042:
-Buy new, get access to 13 WDW resorts. Plus all the non-WDW resorts.
-Buy something like BLT resale..... get only another 18 years on your contract, you get access to only 7 resorts. (By then, you also won't get Hilton Head, Vero Beach, Disneyland Tower access). You get no access to Epcot area resorts.
-Buy something like Riviera resale -- get another 28 years on your contract. Get access to only 1 resort, but you're on the skyliner for access to Epcot and DHS.

Basically.. if it's 2042 and you want to be in the Epcot area and you want to buy resale -- Riviera may be your only affordable choice.
And the only difference between Riviera and the "original" resorts may just be: Riviera gives you 28 years + 1 resort access.
The "original 7" give you 7-resort access, but contracts of only 12-24 years, depending on the property. And the number of resorts qualified will gradually diminish. By 2057, those resale points will be valid at only 4 resorts.


Now, there are only

 

[havoc315]

I totally agree except for one small detail. The legacy 14 resorts aren't entirely unrestricted. If I understand correctly resale contracts at legacy 14 resorts are not eligible for use at RIV or any future resorts. So in 2042 you have several resorts expiring. Who knows if in 2042 you can use AKV points at BCV or not. I don't think there is anything that indicates what DVD's plan is once resorts start expiring.

ETA: Nevermind. I see you already made that point.

Though not certain, I think it's pretty easy to predict the most likely course, especially for BCV/BWV -- That's some of the best real estate Disney has. With BLT, Copper Creek, Riviera, GFV, they have really "upped" their game since those earlier DVC properties were built.
They will seek to maximize profit. I'd expect at a minimum -- Major renovation and trying to sell off shiny new DVC contracts, with worse point charts. At a maximum, I wouldn't be shocked if they demolish and re-build those 50-year-old Epcot area resorts.

 

[RoseGold]

The escalating point chart has already kind of locked in the desirable legacy contracts, BCV/BWV, into one-resort points -- and they have 20 years to go! So, even though you can use other points on them, good luck doing that.

I can totally picture the monorail resorts in similar position further down the line, especially VGF, which is minuscule in the DVC world. VGF's chart isn't looking so bad next to RIV. This is also why I think BLT2 and Poly tower are unlikely as DVC2. The points chart difference would just be too stark.

 

[Sandisw]

Part of the value in purchasing DVC is the ability to book at various resorts, and while I usually do book my home resorts, I like the ability to book other resorts and have tried all the resorts. I have long thought about an AKV addition. If DVC locked you into one resort with a force transfer to RCI if you do not use the points, I do not think I would purchase DVC. I stand by this decision at RIV is a bad management decision and whoever is in charge should be demoted. This is not in the best interest long term of DVC and I fear it will downgrade future purchases.

DVD isn’t selling a contract that is restricted anywhere. So that option remains when you buy from them.

Then plan has been to diminish what you get if you buy resale from a private owner.

Long range it makes perfect sense for the product they want to sell.

IMO, the restriction bother current owners more than new owners I would guess is because it’s a different products then what was originally bought

Over time, resorts like RIV or new ones with resale restrictions will appeal to fewer resale buyers for sure because you will be locked in.

However I know plenty of friends and family who always stay at the same Disney resort as cash guests. So, again, there may be some who are okay with one resort and RCI trades as the only option.

Also, they can change the 7 month window as well for trading out. They could make it 5 and give home resort owners more priority. There is a question if they can legally apply different to direct VZ resale points so I’m not going to comment on that, but you are only guaranteed stays at your own resort Unless it stays part of BVTC.

ETA. They can also create a non home resort points chart that does not have to balance. So there are ways to adjust things to make trading out less appealing.

 

[havoc315]

I also wonder why we don't see more "home ownership point trading."
As the resale restricts hit more "new resorts," we may see more home-trading alongside all the current point rental websites/forums/companies.

Such as, I'll trade my Riviera points for 2026 with someone who has Reflections home points for that year.

A booming "home point trading" community would largely negate the downside of the resale restrictions.

 

[Sandisw]

I also wonder why we don't see more "home ownership point trading."
As the resale restricts hit more "new resorts," we may see more home-trading alongside all the current point rental websites/forums/companies.

Such as, I'll trade my Riviera points for 2026 with someone who has Reflections home points for that year.

A booming "home point trading" community would largely negate the downside of the resale restrictions.

I think the entire one transfer in or out plays a role in this. Plus, I have read over the years that determining a fair trade amount because it may not be one to one,

 

[striker1064]

Sure, but as time goes on the number of resorts you can use them on gets lower and lower.

Correct, but it will take until 2066 to only have one left (CCV). Alternatively, RIV resale and all future resorts will already be at that number of one, 46 years prior to the first of the legacy resorts.

 

[havoc315]

I think the entire one transfer in or out plays a role in this. Plus, I have read over the years that determining a fair trade amount because it may not be one to one,

No reason to transfer, can work it just like points rental. Book for the other person.

And the free market can determine the fair trade amount.
Hilton Head points are typically "cheaper" than WDW resorts. But if you really want to stay at Hilton Head over the summer, you really NEED to book 11 months out, you need home resort advantage.
So if that Hilton Head owner want a tough-to-reserve WDW room 1 year... that could make for a compelling trade.

 

[Sandisw]

No reason to transfer, can work it just like points rental. Book for the other person.

And the free market can determine the fair trade amount.
Hilton Head points are typically "cheaper" than WDW resorts. But if you really want to stay at Hilton Head over the summer, you really NEED to book 11 months out, you need home resort advantage.
So if that Hilton Head owner want a tough-to-reserve WDW room 1 year... that could make for a compelling trade.

Just from what I have read over the years, someone has to go first and there is no guarantee it will happen for the second one.

Plus, not all owners want to lose control of reservations which is what happens if it’s like a points rental,

Obviously, nothing to prevent it, but I think that’s one of the reasons why it is not popular and we don’t see it here on the Rent/Trade

 

[havoc315]

Correct, but it will take until 2066 to only have one left (CCV). Alternatively, RIV resale and all future resorts will already be at that number of one, 46 years prior to the first of the legacy resorts.

I'd argue that the difference between a handful and just 1, really isn't that big.
Looking at 2042.... you'd only have 7 resorts. To many people, OKW and SSR are not that desirable. So for those people, it's only 5.
Now, if you prefer the Magic Kingdom area -- having 4 Magic Kingdom resorts might have great value. But if you prefer being closer to Epcot or DHS, having 1 resort on the skyliner may Trump having 4 Magic Kingdom resorts.

Not to mention, don't be surprised if they find ways to put more and more restrictions on resales of the "old" resorts. I could be wrong, but I don't think there is any guarantee that resale of the older resorts will ALWAYS allow free cross-resort access.

 

[havoc315]

Just from what I have read over the years, someone has to go first and there is no guarantee it will happen for the second one.

Plus, not all owners want to lose control of reservations which is what happens if it’s like a points rental,

Obviously, nothing to prevent it, but I think that’s one of the reasons why it is not popular and we don’t see it here on the Rent/Trade

I suppose that's all true. But I can easily imagine that such trades could become more popular if there is increased demand -- If there becomes a huge market of buyers who are otherwise limited to one resort. Throw in a neutral third-party vendor that can smooth over the risks, it could become a future market.

 

[kboo]

I’d much rather have a second shower than an oversized soaking tub.

Agree. Although with our kids being younger, they enjoy the big soaking tub too.

An even larger number would hang out on Facebook (and occasionally on these very boards) talking about how we're glad the Dirty-Beggar ilk are finally segregated off from the real Disney Vacation Club members; how Dirty Beggars are the reason the pools aren't as clean as they used to be, and how Dirty Beggars have made booking impossible these days.

FB user: why would anyone ever want to buy a used car? Me:

Im doing a 1 bedroom next year as well. Though for just a few more points, I could do a 2 br standard....

This is the temptation, though I am just as likely to go down to a studio on the grounds that "we don't spend that much time in the room anyway." Though I could see us needing much more space when the kids are older.

We sure have! I was one who said I wouldn’t buy it for all the tea in China...6 months later and I did! Lol

I wasn't that extreme, but I thought I would have the patience and self-control to wait for a 100-point-ish resale contract at RIV for short EP/HS area stays only. Then again, I thought I would be able to get a RIV resale for $100-$110. Same thing... bought well before the resort was even finished. Oh well.

 

[dvc lover 1970]

Correct, but it will take until 2066 to only have one left (CCV). Alternatively, RIV resale and all future resorts will already be at that number of one, 46 years prior to the first of the legacy resorts.

Yes but here is my question, how many more DVC resorts can they possibly build? Outside of Reflections, which might not be for another five years, at which point, if it takes five years to sell out brings us to 10 years for the 2042 resorts, when DVC will have a ton of inventory - more than they will care to have at one time. So I think they will wait patiently and start the new phase in 2042 with all the resorts that expire - BCV, BWV, BRR, OKW, HHI, VB. Perhaps they will sell off VB - I think they should keep HHI.

 

[kboo]

VB may still have viability as long as Disney also does cruises out of Port Canaveral. It makes for a nice add-on whether it's by points or cash. (I have not stayed at either HHI or VB... still on the "someday" list
After 2042, CCV will become the OKW of the new DVC! Good point charts, slightly on the older side, but it will have its share of fans. It will have amazing point charts compared to the other DVC 2.0 options.

 

[dvc lover 1970]

VB may still have viability as long as Disney also does cruises out of Port Canaveral. It makes for a nice add-on whether it's by points or cash. (I have not stayed at either HHI or VB... still on the "someday" list
After 2042, CCV will become the OKW of the new DVC! Good point charts, slightly on the older side, but it will have its share of fans. It will have amazing point charts compared to the other DVC 2.0 options.

I agree - and this was one of the reasons we purchased CCV- the point chart. If RIV did not have the resale restrictions we probably would have purchased there too. I just get nervous with those restrictions.

 

[i<3riviera]

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