Revisiting the pharmacist/birth control script refusal debate (sort of)

[minniepumpernickel]

So if an OB/GYN will not do abortions they should not be a doctor?

What does the medical ethics board say about this? If a woman was going to die if she did not get an abortion would this physician get in trouble if he/she refused to do it to save the mothers life?

 

[DisDuck]

Teejay.. A very thoughtful post from an insider. But 2 things: 1) did anyone rejecting the prescription refuse to give it back; and 2) were any of these objections based on religious beliefs. Rejecting an Oxycotin prescrip to a new patient would seem to be one based on 'legal' issues not 'moral' issues.


Cara if you don't mind I would like to add: I agree with you, of course. I explain it not so much as the 'inconvience' factor but that 'you' as a human being have the right to request service without the 'fear' of having your 'moral' values questioned. The refusal on religious grounds to fill certain prescriptions would be making that judgement. That is not your right to do so or impose your judgement on me.


I would like to combine 2 other thoughts posted earlier. I am a pharmacist who is a Jehovah Witness. I receive a prescription for injectable insulin. I religious beliefs preclude my using this product. Do I now decide to deny this to some who is not a JW? And it does not matter if you can go to another store or not. You are still forcing the 'customer' to make a choice based on 'your' beliefs. That is imposing no matter how you slice the cake.

 

[Charade]

Why can't they just admit that it is all about controlling women?

You're kidding? Right? Why do you frequently fall back to this argument that men only want to control women?

It could have just as easily been a woman pharmacist.

It drives me crazy!

I can see that...

 

[ladyjayhawk]

Alex, I wholeheartedly agree...HOWEVER, what does the law say? That is what I am questioning.

Can a pharmacist legally refuse to fill a script based on personal moral/religious beliefs with or without knowledge of why a person is taking a medication? (seems that they can from the cases I have heard about) If so, then we can talk about what is the 'right' thing all day long and the injustice of it all, but if they have the law behind them there is not a thing we can do about it.

Yes, it is legal for a pharmacist to refuse to fill a prescription based on moral/religious beliefs. In fact, a pharmacist can refuse to fill any prescription for any reason. Now this pharmacist may run into problems with their employer, but there are no legal ramifications for refusal of service.

 

[Galahad]

What does the medical ethics board say about this? If a woman was going to die if she did not get an abortion would this physician get in trouble if he/she refused to do it to save the mothers life?

The only time this would be an issue is in the very rare case that they were they only doctor available(this almost never happens). Also, the scenario, where the woman will die if something doesn't happen NOW is 1) generally not considered an abortion by any doc and 2) leads to an emergency delivery either by induction or c-section. If the woman needs an abortion or they MAY die (i.e. it is not emergent) then there is ample opportunity to find a doc that will do it. In either case, it wouldn't be an ethics board that gets involved by lawyers.

 

[minniepumpernickel]

You're kidding? Right? Why do you frequently fall back to this argument that men only want to control women?

It could have just as easily been a woman pharmacist.



I can see that...

The whole thing is about trying to control women's reproductive systems so how can you not see it as a control issue?

Can you give me a link to a female pharmacist that is like that? I'd be curious to read about it.

 

[Figment]

Yes, it is legal for a pharmacist to refuse to fill a prescription based on moral/religious beliefs. In fact, a pharmacist can refuse to fill any prescription for any reason. Now this pharmacist may run into problems with their employer, but there are no legal ramifications for refusal of service.

Nor should there be any ramifications.

 

[GoodFairies]

So if an OB/GYN will not do abortions they should not be a doctor?

Ideally, yes. Religion and profession should not mix.
Of course, non-religious ethics are another story. But surely no one ever thought that OB/GYN was simply bringing precious babies into the world.

 

[Figment]

Ideally, yes. Religion and profession should not mix.
Of course, non-religious ethics are another story. But surely no one ever thought that OB/GYN was simply bringing precious babies into the world.

oh boy

so, the only ethical matters that should ever color a person's behavior must be non-religious...makes sense.....

 

[ladyjayhawk]

The answer is very simple here.
If one can't do everything one was trained to do in all those years of schooling, one should not be a pharmacist.

This is a ridiculous statement. Doctors are not forced to perform abortions and doctors are not forced to prescribe medications, like birth control. Why are you holding pharmacists to a different standard?

 

[Galahad]

Ideally, yes. Religion and profession should not mix.
Of course, non-religious ethics are another story. But surely no one ever thought that OB/GYN was simply bringing precious babies into the world.

Don't know very many OB's do you? Why do you think they are drawn to that profession.

Most docs that do elective abortions do it almost to the exclusion of everything else. Most OB's don't do ANY elective abortions.

 

[minniepumpernickel]

This is a ridiculous statement. Doctors are not forced to perform abortions and doctors are not forced to prescribe medications, like birth control. Why are you holding pharmacists to a different standar

Doctors and pharmacists are not held to the same standards. They are totally different. Are you trying to say that the pharmacist should overide the doctors orders?

 

[Figment]

Doctors and pharmacists are not held to the same standards. They are totally different. Are you trying to say that the pharmacist should overide the doctors orders?

yes, when in the opinion of the pharmacist, the prescription would be detrimental to the health of the patient...suppose the doctor ordered a drug that would have a negative reaction to a current medication the patient was taking? Should the pharamcist still fill the order? Absolutely not.

 

[ladyjayhawk]

Doctors and pharmacists are not held to the same standards. They are totally different. Are you trying to say that the pharmacist should overide the doctors orders?

How did you get that out of my statment? Doctors are not forced to do all of the things they are trained for or legally able to do, just like a pharmacist can not be forced to do everything either.

 

[GoodFairies]

Don't know very many OB's do you? Why do you think they are drawn to that profession.

Most docs that do elective abortions do it almost to the exclusion of everything else. Most OB's don't do ANY elective abortions.

I agree that most people who want to go into that field are drawn because of to the baby delivery. But, does that mean they can decide to not treat someone for an STD even though it is part of their job as an OB/GYN, because clearly someone with an STD "must" have gotten it doing something amoral?

OB/GYN is NOT all about delivering babies, just as being a pharmacist isn't all about dispensing certain medications while withholding others. Any person with half a brain knows that. And simply, as with any job, if a person can't perform it, why are they allowed to do it at all? Why should doctors and pharmacists be held to different standards than any other job? If I couldn't do all aspects of my job (neither a doctor nor a pharmacist) I would not be working here for very long.

 

[luvmk]

Ideally, yes. Religion and profession should not mix.
Of course, non-religious ethics are another story. But surely no one ever thought that OB/GYN was simply bringing precious babies into the world.

This is one area where I think the doctor has the right to deny doing a procedure. I'm not talking about life or death. Galahad stated perfectly how emergency situations are dealt with in the hospital. I'm referring to elective termination. Many ob/gyn's go into that field because they like delivering babies, office practice and surgery. It is one field that has the best of all worlds in terms of what one can do. It isn't just surgery, it isn't just office practice. Doctors shouldn't be forced to do elective termination to be an ob/gyn. If they were, there would be FAR fewer ob/gyns.


Rachel

 

[minniepumpernickel]

yes, when in the opinion of the pharmacist, the prescription would be detrimental to the health of the patient...suppose the doctor ordered a drug that would have a negative reaction to a current medication the patient was taking? Should the pharamcist still fill the order? Absolutely not.

Yes, but that is a totally different issue. That has nothing to do with the birth control issue.

Do you feel that the pharmacist has the right to not give a normal woman BCP's for just his so called moral objection?

 

[Galahad]

Any person with half a brain knows that.

I need to page DW now and see what she's done with the other half of her brain.

 

[DisDuck]

I agree with Galahad's position regarding doctors. There are so many specialties that to say well if morals preclude then dont' become a doctor. Also, the function of an OB/GYN is not just to write prescriptions. One goes to doctors for physicals, etc. My wife doesn't go to an OB/GYN just for one purpose.

If one does not like the practice of a particular doctor go to another. Certainly when picking an OB/GYN I would expect that b/c and related issues would be a necessity in choosing that particular doctor over another. However, a pharmacist has pretty much 1 function that is to read, interpret and fill prescriptions. Doing that job does involve determining if what was written is correct medically. Yes a doctor might make a mistake on dosage or how many to take, etc. If a pharmacist spots such an error the 'patient' should be informed and the doctor contacted. However, these types of issues aside if the prescription is legit as to dosage/strength/instructions then rejecting due to religious beliefs is imposing. Trying to use the doctor comparison is apples/oranges. Doctors don't have to write prescriptions for every patient they see (some don't need any) while pharmacists can only fill prescriptions. They don't do physicals.

 

[Galahad]

If they were, there would be FAR fewer ob/gyns.


Rachel

Yep. Over 80% of OB's do NO elective terminations.