Resales through Disney or Somewhere else?

[WebmasterDoc]

... You're saying that if you bought a resale today and they made changes a year from now restricting the usage that you wouldn't be grandfathered in? You'd be subject to the new rules?

Resales have been around since shortly after DVC began and, until March, 2011, members who purchased via resale were treated the same as those who purchased direct.

Those who purchased resale after March, 2011 have some restrictions regarding what non-DVC options are available to them, but currently still have access to all DVC resorts as well as the World Passport collection. If DVD should decide to further restrict points acquired via resale, it is within their ability to do so and they could make those restrictions retroactive even though they grandfathered all resale purchases prior to March 21, 2011. (I would personally be shocked if any prior changes were retroactively removed just due to the negative response from those members affected who purchased in good faith at the time.)

Whether more restrictions are added to resale purchases and whether any resale purchases will be grandfathered is fodder for speculation but those with any real knowledge of this have made no announcement. In early 2011, there was some advance announcement of the situation but even that is not guaranteed going forward.

While it is fun to speculate what Disney might do in the future, until they formally announce and implement any change, nothing is official and could be changed. DVC history is filled with announcements regarding resort development, programs, perks, etc that have never come to be part of the program. Resorts at Newport Beach, CA, NYC and even at WDW have been announced in the past (including artist renderings and press releases) and later withdrawn. There have been announcements at the DVC Annual Meeting about programs (like a VIP program) that have never been implemented.

As members all we can embrace at any given moment is what programs, perks, and even resorts are available at that moment because all of that could change (and has in the past) with one piece of mail from DVC to announce a change - typically described as a "program enhancement".

Stay tuned.

 

[chalee94]

That's kind of upsetting. You're saying that if you bought a resale today and they made changes a year from now restricting the usage that you wouldn't be grandfathered in? You'd be subject to the new rules?

sometimes perks are taken away from direct purchasers as well, if that makes you feel any better.

 

[Nabas]

sometimes perks are taken away from direct purchasers as well, if that makes you feel any better.

IMHO, that's why it's always a good idea to purchase where you intend to stay. Almost all other perks can be taken away from both direct and resale buyers.

Returning to the speculation, it's understandable why Disney put in the restriction for the Disney Collection, the Concierge Collection, and the Adventurer Collection. These are expensive benefits to offer. Sales should be strong at both the known VGF and the presumed Polynesian. With AKV sales finally nearing completion, it's unclear what additional financial gains can be made through more restrictions.

 

[Dean]

Returning to the speculation, it's understandable why Disney put in the restriction for the Disney Collection, the Concierge Collection, and the Adventurer Collection. These are expensive benefits to offer.

There is no direct or really indirect cost for DVD to offer these options. The members actually pay all of the costs involved in one way or another. I do think it's understandable but for a different reason, that they are high profile even if low value and are not contractual.

 

[disneynutz]

Disney can pretty much do what ever they want. They are in the business of selling timeshares, not keeping everyone happy.

If they feel that additional restrictions will increase their business, you can expect additional restrictions. Will they make them retro-active or grandfather in for certain groups, maybe. It all depends on what they are trying to accomplish and how much pressure is place on increasing sales.

It's all about business.

Bill

 

[Nabas]

Disney can pretty much do what ever they want. They are in the business of selling timeshares, not keeping everyone happy.

Ouch. WDW's business is not timeshares; WDW's "business" is happiness.

Disney, WDW in particular, is in the business of selling vacations. Selling vacations is all about making people happy.

WDW will do what it needs to do to make the most people happy for the greatest profit but to say it's business is "not keeping everyone happy" is to completely miss what WDW sells.

DVC members, especially those who purchase directly from Disney, represent some of WDW's biggest spenders. There's no reason to damage their long-term goodwill for a few bucks. Disney needs to carefully weigh each change in benefit to determine what will produce the best long-term profit. From this perspective, Disney never will "pretty much do what ever they want." It's bad business.

 

[Deb & Bill]

Ouch. WDW's business is not timeshares; WDW's "business" is happiness.

Disney, WDW in particular, is in the business of selling vacations. Selling vacations is all about making people happy.

WDW will do what it needs to do to make the most people happy for the greatest profit but to say it's business is "not keeping everyone happy" is to completely miss what WDW sells.

DVC members, especially those who purchase directly from Disney, represent some of WDW's biggest spenders. There's no reason to damage their long-term goodwill for a few bucks. Disney needs to carefully weigh each change in benefit to determine what will produce the best long-term profit. From this perspective, Disney never will "pretty much do what ever they want." It's bad business.

Step away from the Kool-aid and you will be fine.

 

[disneynutz]

Ouch. WDW's business is not timeshares; WDW's "business" is happiness.

Disney, WDW in particular, is in the business of selling vacations. Selling vacations is all about making people happy.

WDW will do what it needs to do to make the most people happy for the greatest profit but to say it's business is "not keeping everyone happy" is to completely miss what WDW sells.

DVC members, especially those who purchase directly from Disney, represent some of WDW's biggest spenders. There's no reason to damage their long-term goodwill for a few bucks. Disney needs to carefully weigh each change in benefit to determine what will produce the best long-term profit. From this perspective, Disney never will "pretty much do what ever they want." It's bad business.

I should have said that DVD's business is selling timeshares, Disney's is making money. The Disney stockholders expect a profit, if placing restrictions on resales increases that profit while upsetting owners, they have already done that. If increasing prices and exercising ROFR on resale buyers upsets some people, they do that too.

Make no mistake about it, Disney is a for profit business, yes they have a wonderful product and yes they do a great job but their decisions are based on numbers. Most of their executive team have a finance background, not a hospitality or customer service background. Many of their changes both Parks and Resorts and DVD upsets the regulars but the reality is, they make so much money from the first timers, it offsets any lost sales.

60% of DVC buyers are first timers and have little knowledge of how DVC works. They don't read the fine print and most don't even know that resale exists because the Guide never told them about it. DVC owners will aways generate long term profit for as long as they own their contract, no matter what Disney does. If DVC owners get upset and sell, someone else is waiting to take over the contract so Disney really hasn't lost a thing.

Don't get me wrong, our family loves Disney, WDW and what Walt built, but we realize that Disney is a business.

Bill

 

[Nabas]

Most of their executive team have a finance background, not a hospitality or customer service background. Many of their changes both Parks and Resorts and DVD upsets the regulars but the reality is, they make so much money from the first timers, it offsets any lost sales.

I think you are and are in agreement.

To clarify my point, I agree Disney executives will use standard finance and business equations to help make decisions but since their ultimate "product" is happiness, they need to take into account the human factor in these equations. Simplistically, more happiness = more profits. This is one of the reasons Disney conducts surveys like no other; Disney's business decisions need to include "happiness" in the equation. Thus, when WDW lets an attraction like Splash Mountain fall apart for years before finally fixing it, it's because they know through surveys that more guests would rather ride a "broken" Splash Mountain than no Splash Mountain, and not enough guests notice the difference to make it worth investing in a third shift to make overnight repairs.

DVD is no different. If they decide to add restrictions, they will be sure to factor in the human element.

Heck, Disney created a firestorm by announcing "Starbuck's is replacing the Main Street Bakery" which only was quelled when Disney changed the message to "the Main Street Bakery will be serving Starbuck's coffee". Disney knows it's all about image and, regardless of business degree, they need to maintain the image as "the place where dreams come true".

If they can get away with cutting corners and most DVC members won't complain, they'll do it. But they also want to avoid incidents like the recent Starbuck's fiasco. It's all about the message they send to their "guests" along with a little pixiedust.

 

[Missyrose]

I think you are and are in agreement.

To clarify my point, I agree Disney executives will use standard finance and business equations to help make decisions but since their ultimate "product" is happiness, they need to take into account the human factor in these equations. Simplistically, more happiness = more profits. This is one of the reasons Disney conducts surveys like no other; Disney's business decisions need to include "happiness" in the equation. Thus, when WDW lets an attraction like Splash Mountain fall apart for years before finally fixing it, it's because they know through surveys that more guests would rather ride a "broken" Splash Mountain than no Splash Mountain, and not enough guests notice the difference to make it worth investing in a third shift to make overnight repairs.

DVD is no different. If they decide to add restrictions, they will be sure to factor in the human element.

Heck, Disney created a firestorm by announcing "Starbuck's is replacing the Main Street Bakery" which only was quelled when Disney changed the message to "the Main Street Bakery will be serving Starbuck's coffee". Disney knows it's all about image and, regardless of business degree, they need to maintain the image as "the place where dreams come true".

If they can get away with cutting corners and most DVC members won't complain, they'll do it. But they also want to avoid incidents like the recent Starbuck's fiasco. It's all about the message they send to their "guests" along with a little pixiedust.

But what the PPs were trying to explain is that the executives from DVD aren't judged on how much money DVCers spend in the parks. DVD only makes its money buy selling DVC contracts. So in their eyes, every resale contract sold is a lost sale for DVD. The Disney company as a whole want to keep you happy and spending, but when it comes to DVD (who is the one in charge of any resale restrictions, they really don't care how happy you are. They already have your money.

 

[Dean]

I think you are and are in agreement.

To clarify my point, I agree Disney executives will use standard finance and business equations to help make decisions but since their ultimate "product" is happiness, they need to take into account the human factor in these equations. Simplistically, more happiness = more profits. This is one of the reasons Disney conducts surveys like no other; Disney's business decisions need to include "happiness" in the equation. Thus, when WDW lets an attraction like Splash Mountain fall apart for years before finally fixing it, it's because they know through surveys that more guests would rather ride a "broken" Splash Mountain than no Splash Mountain, and not enough guests notice the difference to make it worth investing in a third shift to make overnight repairs.

DVD is no different. If they decide to add restrictions, they will be sure to factor in the human element.

Heck, Disney created a firestorm by announcing "Starbuck's is replacing the Main Street Bakery" which only was quelled when Disney changed the message to "the Main Street Bakery will be serving Starbuck's coffee". Disney knows it's all about image and, regardless of business degree, they need to maintain the image as "the place where dreams come true".

If they can get away with cutting corners and most DVC members won't complain, they'll do it. But they also want to avoid incidents like the recent Starbuck's fiasco. It's all about the message they send to their "guests" along with a little pixiedust.

I suspect we mostly agree on this however, I think there is a point to make on the opposite side. Historically DVC has been so averse to upsetting members that they've failed (IMO) to uphold their responsibilities. For example, they should have done a reallocation in 2000 or 2001 and delayed it almost 10 years longer than they should. However, the last few years they've clearly taken a different approach and made decisions somewhat independent of the complaints they knew they'd get. Take the reallocations, valet parking, book a week at the time all of which predictably caused an uproar. On a smaller scale the way some of the issues were handled when members had to be moved from AKV (twice) and BWV left a lot to be desired. With the valet they gave zero warning to the point where some arrived with free valet and left having an unexpected bill.

Points are that they care about DVD and Disney more than the members even to the point of skirting their legal responsibilities at times, they have become callused to complaints (likely appropriately so) and they don't always seem to think things through even when they could/should have. IMO they have become complacent.