Resale Restriction Workaround

[ziravan]

When the 4/4/16 restrictions were announced, within a day we had figured out the workaround of adding a 25 point direct contract to your resale to make yourself "whole". Many of us on this forum advocated that new resale buyers add this direct contract sooner than later because DVC wouldn't let that loophole stay open forever.

Sure enough, even though that loophole stayed open almost two years, eventually they upped the minimum buy in to 75 points. Buying a 75 point direct contract for perks such as they are might or might not be an OK bargain, depending on how convicted you are about such things. It certainly was no longer the "slam dunk" bargain that I believed the 25 point loophole to be.

But these 1/19/19 restrictions brings the 75 point contract back into consideration.

If you submit to ROFR after 1/19/19, here is the way to minimize being left out:

My suggestion is to buy two different resorts with the same UY, first resale and then direct, and this will maximize your options.

So, let's say that you want to maximize your point spread with DVC and you want to end up with about 200 points. Let's say you really love the monorail and the Epcot resorts.

1. Buy 125 Poly Points resale.

2. Buy 75 BWV points direct.

With banking and borrowing, you can turn each of those home resort advantages into as much as 375 points for Poly and 225 points for BWV. The best of both worlds, but now add a third: you can use the BWV points at the new resorts going forward.

Plus the 75 point direct contract gives you perks.

For about $5,000 difference between new and resale, you can add back in both perks and the availability to book into the new resorts. That's a premium to be sure, but I think it starts to be worth it if you use the add on to double the number of home resorts you own in the Legacy 14.

If you're buying after this week, it's time to reconsider an add on contract.

This means looking for a resale contract about 75 points smaller than the number of points you eventually want to own and then buying a 75 point direct contract after you close and get your member ID from DVC. By definition, both of these contracts should be in the Legacy 14; buying a Riviera contract when it comes for sale will not maximize your options because of the potential resale hit to those contracts when YOU want to sell.

 

[Matty B13]

Just what DVC wants you to start thinking......

 

[ziravan]

Just what DVC wants you to start thinking......

I'm not quite so sure.

Certainly, they'll accept a 75 point direct contract from you and probably be happy about that.

The goal here isn't to make DVC happy, but rather how best to take advantage of the system as it exists after 1/19/19. The remaining loophole is that DVC can't legally change the ability to trade between the L14 resorts; the membership in the "Club" was granted as an appurtenance of the contracts. THAT's what they're changing now.

The best way to take advantage of DVC, as we've long suggested here, is to "buy where you want to stay."

Now it's time to double down on that. Certainly buying a 25 point contract for perks I believe was a great deal when it existed. 75 points? Maybe not so much.

But the equation on the 75 point contract has changed again. 75 points not ONLY gets you perks, it gets you access to the new resorts going forward. I think that's a big enough deal to put it back on the table for consideration.

If you combine that with splitting your contracts up between two resorts, for example, a monorail and an EPCOT resort, then you're taking advantage of the loophole that DVC cannot close; you'll have double home resort advantage in the L14, the ability to trade among the L14 at 7 months, perks, AND the ability to use the direct contract to trade into the newer resorts.

Sure, they'll happily take a 75 point contract from you. But that contract looks very likely to defeat the purposes that they're trying to achieve with the new restrictions.

They certainly aren't trying to get you to buy 75 out of your total 200 points from them at a $5,000 markup; they're trying to get you to buy all 200 points from them at a mark up north of $12,000.

 

[ziravan]

There are ways to tweak this advice but the end goal would be to take whichever resort that would cost the most to buy direct and make THAT one the resale contract.

You could mix/match on price; buy where you want to stay with one contract and SSR with the other and use that one with the sole intent of trading into the newer resorts.

This strategy also offers a solution to the 2042 resort end date problem; you could buy into a 2042 resort and also one with a longer end date as your two contracts. Use the 2042 as the resale contract and you have 25 years of DVC with 200 points (or however many you are buying), and then 75 points going forward to the next end date.

Me? I own three contracts, BCV (resale), Poly (direct) and AKV (resale). If I were a new buyer next week knowing what I know about the resorts I like, I'd buy into Poly and BCV but since those are both insanely expensive on the direct market, I'd buy a Poly resale contract and a different EPCOT resort, BWV, direct. In that case, the 2042 is going to run out first, but I could live with that. I dang sure wouldn't take into account whether the direct contract expiring in 2042 means I lose perks; that's far too long a horizon to factor in perks given DVC's recent history.

Ultimately though, it's a personal preference whether losing the perks and rights of membership is worth addressing. At 25 points, I think it was a no-brainer. At 75 points for AP Gold passes, a lounge, and maybe an event or two: I think the general consensus here was: meh. But now there's another angle to consider. Bottom line, you can work around both of the last sets of restrictions if you wish to do so, but it'll cost you. NOT AS MUCH AS DISNEY WANTS YOU TO PAY; but maybe more than you want to pay. That's the new purchasing reality.

 

[bwvBound]

Or trade reservations with other owners?

 

[ziravan]

Or trade reservations with other owners?

I actually think that's coming, a side business of the brokers.

I think it was too cumbersome for the old system but it's gonna be worth the trouble for the changes, especially after the new resorts start to be up and running in 3-5 years.

I think you'll see the forums that allow rentals to allow owners to search for each other that way as well.

The problem of course, is control of the reservation. If people wanted reservations that they don't control, why even buy into DVC? Why not just rent?

Everything has a cost. It's going to come down to each new buyer's comfort level.

 

[Opie100]

I don't fully understand. If I buy a 75 point direct contract and I then buy a resale same-use-year 100 point contract after 1/19, I still won't be able to use the 100 point contract at Riviera, right?

 

[ScubaCat]

I don't fully understand. If I buy a 75 point direct contract and I then buy a resale same-use-year 100 point contract after 1/19, I still won't be able to use the 100 point contract at Riviera, right?

That's what the official notice says. He's saying that above as well. It's not so much a work around as just buying a contract direct for the ability to book there with 75 points.

 

[jarestel]

In your example buying a 75 point direct BWV contract in order to insulate yourself from what you predict will be low Riviera resale values runs into the same problem you're trying to avoid. In 5 years, BWV will have less than 18 years left on the RTU and its resale value, assuming you "had" to sell, will be nowhere near what you pay to purchase direct today. (full disclosure, I am predicting this part, not guaranteeing it, so I could be wrong)

 

[ziravan]

I don't fully understand. If I buy a 75 point direct contract and I then buy a resale same-use-year 100 point contract after 1/19, I still won't be able to use the 100 point contract at Riviera, right?

Correct but you can bank and borrow the 75 and use up to 225 points every third year on Riviera.

If you’re looking to stay at Riviera and the new resorts going forward every year, this won’t work.

If you’re looking to have that option as a tool in your shed, it opens up that option.

 

[ziravan]

In your example buying a 75 point direct BWV contract in order to insulate yourself from what you predict will be low Riviera resale values runs into the same problem you're trying to avoid. In 5 years, BWV will have less than 18 years left on the RTU and its resale value, assuming you "had" to sell, will be nowhere near what you pay to purchase direct today. (full disclosure, I am predicting this part, not guaranteeing it, so I could be wrong)

But I’d get to stay at BWV for 25 years.

There’s a world of difference between a resort losing resale value at the end of its 50 year RTU and one losing value out of the gate.

 

[ziravan]

There are three sets of restrictions in place now.

1. The 2011 restrictions removing concierge collection and using points for cruises, etc.
2. The 2016 restrictions removing perks
3. The 2019 restrictions removing access to new resorts going forward.

It's widely considered that the 2011 restrictions were for poor uses of points anyway. You'd make out better renting your points and using the money for cruises than using your points directly for cruises, although access to the member cruises were also limited.

With the new changes, all resale buyers at the L14 resorts are in the same boat; it's highly speculated that resale buyers at the new resorts going forward will be in much worse shape.

Since the only thing for the next year or more on the resale market will be the L14, let's focus on them:

Buying resale or direct, grandfathered or not, has no bearing on the value of the points should YOU need to sell; all will create L14 resale owners with 2019 and earlier restrictions.

So, are the above restrictions worth paying for a 75 point contract direct? With a 75 point contract, most of the above restrictions go away. You still wouldn't have enough points to trade into cruises, but who does? What you WOULD get back from the 2011 restrictions is access to member cruises. You would get perks back. And, you'd get back the option of trading into the newer resorts with some of your points.

I'm not trying to help DVC sell points; I don't think they really want to sell 75 point contracts to defeat their restrictions. The 75 point minimum is a hedge; they can't set the limit too much higher because that would affect the direct point buyers they're trying to get to buy. DVC has been selling small point contracts (I would define as anything less than the old minimum of 160 points) for awhile now. How can you sell 100 points to someone and deny them being qualified as direct? But, the old minimum add on of 25 points was eating their lunch; 25 points to add perks was a bargain. So, they went as high as they could go without impacting new sales: 75 points.

Right now, the difference between 75 points in a resale of about $110/point and direct of about $180/point is $70/point, or about $5,000.00. That 5 grand allows you to purchase resale points in essentially the same position as current owners.

If you're buying 200 points at $110 all resale: $22,000
200 points, all direct @180/point: $36,000
125 @ $110; 75 @ $180: $27,250

There's an option for 200 points that gives you almost everything that can bypass most restrictions on resale that doesn't cost $14,000 more; it'd cost less than half of that.

If the three sets of restrictions bother you enough to spend $5,000 to work around them, then that’s a good deal - for you. Paying $14,000 isn’t as good a deal.

 

[CarolMN]

Or trade reservations with other owners?

I actually think that's coming, a side business of the brokers.

I think it was too cumbersome for the old system but it's gonna be worth the trouble for the changes, especially after the new resorts start to be up and running in 3-5 years.

I think you'll see the forums that allow rentals to allow owners to search for each other that way as well.

The problem of course, is control of the reservation. If people wanted reservations that they don't control, why even buy into DVC? Why not just rent?

Everything has a cost. It's going to come down to each new buyer's comfort level.

We already have brokers who will match renters with owners. I doubt there will be any "trading" between owners happening beyond that.

It would be virtually impossible to come up with a consensus on the "fair" value of points from different resorts. Prior to 7 months, a point is NOT a point is NOT a point! I'm quite sure that very few owners would agree to give me the number of points that I would expect for my BWV points.

 

[bwvBound]

We already have brokers who will match renters with owners. I doubt there will be any "trading" between owners happening beyond that.

It would be virtually impossible to come up with a consensus on the "fair" value of points from different resorts. Prior to 7 months, a point is NOT a point is NOT a point! I'm quite sure that very few owners would agree to give me the number of points that I would expect for my BWV points.

Not between L14 owners, there isn't sufficient motivation. However, someday in the future, there will be restricted L14 owners seeking a reservation at DVC2 and vice versa. I believe, in years to come, there will be sufficient motivation to fuel direct exchanges across L14<>DVC2.

It won't take much (free!) to post an exchange offer on TUG's Marketplace.

 

[ScubaCat]

It would be virtually impossible to come up with a consensus on the "fair" value of points from different resorts. Prior to 7 months, a point is NOT a point is NOT a point! I'm quite sure that very few owners would agree to give me the number of points that I would expect for my BWV points

I'll give you a 100 for 1 ratio.....!!

...

Hilton Honors points (Just think, for 500 BWV points you could have one whole free night at the hilton bonnet creek!)

 

[peabody58]

I think at this point it would be a lot easier and cheaper to just build a time machine and go back and buy your resort of chose at the initial direct offer. EZ, PZ (just add a bag of Doritios and a DeLoreon).

 

[Bearval]

Not really sure what the big fuss is all about. Disney just created an interactive experience for all future owners of new dvc resorts. You purchase a contract and live happily ever after until midnight (when you decide to sell) and your carriage (dvc contract) turns into a pumpkin (loses half or more of its value). If they spin this right I am sure plenty of people will want to get a fast pass for this exciting ride.

 

[Bearval]

Is there anything in the by laws that would stop Disney from putting the same restrictions on contracts that they buy back and resell?

 

[MamaBear12]

Thank you for sharing these recommendations! We’re planning to purchase within the next year and are interested in OKW (extended) and AKV. 200 points or so total. I know both resorts tend to be easier to book, especially 1- and 2-bedrooms, which is what we plan to book mostly. We do want AKV for Christmas trips every 2-3 years (though we would stay OKW Christmas if need be). We don’t trave to WDW during fall frenzy. December, early January, spring break, May, and June are the months we would travel...planning a December UY. Since OKW (extended) and AKV expire the same year, which would you recommend for the direct 75 point contract?

A) AKV to limit number of points with high dues.
B) OKW because extended contracts will be harder to find on the resale market.
C) AKV (direct) and SSR (resale, instead of OKW) to save $ since OKW tends to have availability so less need to own there)? Or vice versus.
D) Look for both resale and jump on whichever one we find first that fits our UY and point needs, then buy the other direct.

Thanks!

 

[ziravan]

Thank you for sharing these recommendations! We’re planning to purchase within the next year and are interested in OKW (extended) and AKV. 200 points or so total. I know both resorts tend to be easier to book, especially 1- and 2-bedrooms, which is what we plan to book mostly. We do want AKV for Christmas trips every 2-3 years (though we would stay OKW Christmas if need be). We don’t trave to WDW during fall frenzy. December, early January, spring break, May, and June are the months we would travel...planning a December UY. Since OKW (extended) and AKV expire the same year, which would you recommend for the direct 75 point contract?

A) AKV to limit number of points with high dues.
B) OKW because extended contracts will be harder to find on the resale market.
C) AKV (direct) and SSR (resale, instead of OKW) to save $ since OKW tends to have availability so less need to own there)? Or vice versus.
D) Look for both resale and jump on whichever one we find first that fits our UY and point needs, then buy the other direct.

Thanks!

B.

I’d buy AKV resale and OKW direct. Right now, OKW is $20 cheaper direct and you get the 2057 date buying direct.

Plus AKV seems to be your preference there and so if you use the OKW points to stay at Riviera that’s not the same as bumping your AKV points for a year or two.