RESALE POLICY CHANGE!

[hayesdvc]

Do not assume Disney is having any kind of change of heart by going back to granfathering contracts it received for ROFR before April 4. Though I was not there I can image the situation: numerous complaints were made by brokers and others, but Potrock is steadfast in holding the line. Then someone in the room suggested he call the lawyers. He calls the lawyers and one of them with a brain says, "Look Ken, once you received the contract for ROFR, DVD was required to make a decison as to exercise it or not based only on the contract and its terms that were submitted. Then the announcement is made for the incidental benefits change. That change could be construed by a court to be an improper attempt by Disney to add a term to the contract after it was submitted for ROFR that did not exist when it was received for ROFR. You could be walking into a hornet's nest of lawsuits directly against Disney for wrongful exercise or wrongful refusal to execise ROFR based on that term DVD added to the contract, possibly brought in the same lawsuits where the buyer is trying to void the contract with the seller for mutual mistake. And once in those lawsuits you are going to get a document request that you won't be able to avoid requiring you to produce every internal document, email, voicemail, and text messages the company has which relates in any way to the change being made, all of which documents, after being produced, will be publically available to the world." And of course Ken finally comes to his senses and reverses on the already submitted contract issue, but he won't go an inch further than that.

I enjoyed reading your thoughts. I would have assumed all the "leglaize" had been signed, sealed , and delivered prior to the announcement. I would have assumed that lawyers would have written the original letter. To this point, the outcome leads me to think otherwise. Legally "ambiguity" always sides to the group NOT writing the letter/contract.

 

[southerngirl528]

I would have assumed that lawyers would have written the original letter.

Without a doubt lawyers wrote the letter.

 

[Sammie]

Outside of the possibility of negative press regarding the Happiest Place on Earth, why do you think Disney reversed their position of what is going to be defined as "grandfathered"?

I received "the" email in earlier this evening from the TSS explaining the Mouse's change of heart. I have a purchase that is waiting on estoppel. I assume TSS sent this to all buyers of open contracts as this was just an add on for me.

I think it was either just plan miscommunication which Disney is famous for. They never seem to coordinate these things. Or else as ScubaCat said, it was take away everything; wait a day and give them back a morsel and they will be happy.

 

[tjkraz]

To take the Jeep analogy one step further, imagine the Jeep dealership essentially took that used Jeep Wrangler, removed all the Jeep badging and said "Here you go. We can't stop you from buying a Jeep, but we certainly don't want anyone to know you have it. Don't ever show your face at a Jeep dealership or waive to another Jeep owner. You're most certainly NOT one of us." It's such a slap in the face to someone who just signed a contract agreeing to pay you annually for the next 41 years.

This is a ludicrous misapplication of my analogy.

I can only assume this relates to the lack of an ID card for resale buyers. The card's SOLE PURPOSE over the years has been for the application of discounts. If an individual is not eligible for those discounts, they really have no use for a card. Members do not walk down Main Street, flashing their ID cards at one-another and high-fiving. There is no secret handshake.

The card is not used at check-in. Showing it to housekeepers won't get us extra shampoo. Having a card doesn't net you extra fast passes, early theme park admission or free Dole Whips.

Resale buyers will still receive a membership kit from DVC. They will have access to the website. DVC WILL actually take phone calls from resale owners...and treat them with the same degree of politeness as direct buyers. And yes, they'll even let you show your face in the resort hallways.

The so-called "Membership Extras" are funded by the sales division of DVD and should be considered a perk of paying the higher rates to buy direct. Buyers who would rather pay less should still go resale and laugh all the way to the bank.

 

[tjkraz]

I think it was either just plan miscommunication which Disney is famous for. They never seem to coordinate these things. Or else as ScubaCat said, it was take away everything; wait a day and give them back a morsel and they will be happy.

As I understand it, the original intent was to use pre-4/4 closings at the cutoff. The first message to resale brokers on Monday--stating that in-process contracts would be grandfathered--was a miscommunication.

The second message--that contracts had to close before 4/4 to be eligible--was how DVD initially planned to proceed.

Not sure what prompted this (apparent) most recent reversal but it's obviously the more consumer-friendly alternative.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

The card's SOLE PURPOSE over the years has been for the application of discounts.

I always thought the main purpose was so I knew my number to give to MS when I called in. It had other purposes too but I was lost if I didn't have it when calling. Honestly being serious too. Everything I'm a member of that has a number I've gotten a card for. Hotels memberships, rental car membership, airline memberships. I guess there may be things I could show them to get something for but the main reason is to have my number afaik.

 

[Lorilais_mommie]

I'm confused-does Disney charge different amounts for different tiMe periods for the dining plan? I thought it was a set price until they decide to raise it permanently. DVC has gotten a "discount" in the past when they raised it in the middle of the year since the rate for the year for DVC had already been set.

My understanding is that Disney changed to having different prices for high season some time ago but the DVC structure keeps the same price year round..

The DDP price does change based on which season your visit is in.. (For stays booked through WDW resorts)
I know this b/c i had to call WDW resorts to pricing out a trip out for a mother last year...
1st week of Nov. Vs. Thanksgiving week.. I had the cm break down everything for them... Room, tickets, DDP

So my thinking is DVC members save couple hundred $$.... If your going during peak times.

The the big questions is will DVD consider that a perk?

 

[ziravan]

This is a ludicrous misapplication of my analogy.

I can only assume this relates to the lack of an ID card for resale buyers. The card's SOLE PURPOSE over the years has been for the application of discounts. If an individual is not eligible for those discounts, they really have no use for a card. Members do not walk down Main Street, flashing their ID cards at one-another and high-fiving. There is no secret handshake.

The card is not used at check-in. Showing it to housekeepers won't get us extra shampoo. Having a card doesn't net you extra fast passes, early theme park admission or free Dole Whips.

Resale buyers will still receive a membership kit from DVC. They will have access to the website. DVC WILL actually take phone calls from resale owners...and treat them with the same degree of politeness as direct buyers. And yes, they'll even let you show your face in the resort hallways.

The so-called "Membership Extras" are funded by the sales division of DVD and should be considered a perk of paying the higher rates to buy direct. Buyers who would rather pay less should still go resale and laugh all the way to the bank.

The card itself IS like a secret handshake. It says I'm a member of the club. I remember how cool it was when I FINALLY got my card in the mail.

More important, not giving a card sends a potent message that goes beyond 'you don't need one since you don't need to show one anywhere'.

And this goes to the heart of my complaint:

Denying a card says "you don't belong". We won't show you the secret handshake. You're not part of the club.

Except for the AP, the perks are so so. I understand the move itself even though I don't think it's good business.

But the second class status is not only unnecessary, it's poor form on Disney's part.

I said this before. Even my grocery store gives me a membership card. Hell, two different Presidential campaigns have made me a member, official embossed card and all.

 

[southerngirl528]

Folks, timeshare companies all over creation put stipulations and restrictions on their resale owners. It's de rigueur in the industry. And it's not a new thing for DVC. They first input differentiation for resales in early 2011. The bottom line is that no matter how one buys into DVC, we are all buying the exact same thing: an interest in DVC that provides the ability to book DVC resorts on points vs cash. That is ALL than any owner is guaranteed. I have no member card with another TS I own and I did buy part of my weeks direct. The good news is that DVC has apparently decided to grandfather all contracts they have received by 4/03/16.

 

[tjkraz]

I always thought the main purpose was so I knew my number to give to MS when I called in. It had other purposes too but I was lost if I didn't have it when calling. Honestly being serious too. Everything I'm a member of that has a number I've gotten a card for. Hotels memberships, rental car membership, airline memberships. I guess there may be things I could show them to get something for but the main reason is to have my number afaik.

It's 2016. The record keeping use for plastic ID cards gets less and less important with each passing day.

The ID number is not used to access the member website, which is where the majority of the reservation and customer service traffic now originates. And Member Services agents can locate a member's account without the ID.

Resale buyers will still have an ID number. It will be viewable on the member website, can be obtained from Member Services, etc.

The card itself IS like a secret handshake. It says I'm a member of the club. I remember how cool it was when I FINALLY got my card in the mail.

Personally, I've never felt even a twinge of affection for my Disney Vacation Club ID card. It's a tool...not a source of pride.

I said this before. Even my grocery store gives me a membership card.

Mine doesn't. It's a bar code on my smartphone. (Does that mean they don't love me?)

 

[ziravan]

Folks, timeshare companies all over creation put stipulations and restrictions on their resale owners. It's de rigueur in the industry. And it's not a new thing for DVC. They first input differentiation for resales in early 2011. The bottom line is that no matter how one buys into DVC, we are all buying the exact same thing: an interest in DVC that provides the ability to book DVC resorts on points vs cash. That is ALL than any owner is guaranteed. I have no member card with another TS I own and I did buy part of my weeks direct. The good news is that DVC has apparently decided to grandfather all contracts they have received by 4/03/16.

And again, "All timeshares do it" is a disastrous business model for DVC.

DVC turned timeshares on its head. Their business model used to be based upon being truly different, not just as a marketing concept, but in point of fact.

The REASON why DVC resales are far higher than industry standard is BECAUSE they aren't "just another timeshare".

"Everybody does it" is the death of DVC. Yes, that's exactly how my other timeshare does it, and that's WHY I bought it for pennies on the dollar from EBay.

 

[southerngirl528]

ziravan, I hear what you're saying but DVC still IS different. I own other TS. I have to stay for 7 nights. I have to check in on a weekend day. I have to pay $85 to lock off my 2 bdrm villa so I can stay 2 consecutive weeks. I do not get a member card with them. And I'm talking about Marriott Vacation Club which has a fabulous collection of TS resorts. I would put most of them against any DVC resort.

One can choose on what IS still great or only focus on the downsides. If I focused on my restrictions with my resale week with MVC, how I can't call as early to book, how I can't exchange my week for Marriott points (not that I ever would anyway), than I would miss that I got a very good buy on a fabulous property that I now get to stay at an extra week. And for us, that is AWESOME!!!

 

[sgtdisney]

Folks, timeshare companies all over creation put stipulations and restrictions on their resale owners. It's de rigueur in the industry. And it's not a new thing for DVC. They first input differentiation for resales in early 2011.

That is why this is concerning to many. Disney differentiated themselves, in a number of ways, as not like another timeshare company from all over creation. They were different, unique, innovative. We are members of a club. That's how they promote and present themselves. Many people are now finding out, it was really just a selling point and DVC is just like any other timeshare company, except charging a premium for the magic and proximity to a themepark.

 

[tjkraz]

The REASON why DVC resales are far higher than industry standard is BECAUSE they aren't "just another timeshare".

I thought it was because DVC represents a lower-cost alternative for on-site Disney accommodations.

People aren't paying $120 per point for 25 years at the Beach Club because "Disney is different"...they're doing it because of the proximity to Epcot, existence of Stormalong Bay and the fact that the net cost will be far less than the +/- $600 per night they charge for BC hotel rooms.

 

[ziravan]

ziravan, I hear what you're saying but DVC still IS different. I own other TS. I have to stay for 7 nights. I have to check in on a weekend day. I have to pay $85 to lock off my 2 bdrm villa so I can stay 2 consecutive weeks. I do not get a member card with them. And I'm talking about Marriott Vacation Club which has a fabulous collection of TS resorts. I would put most of them against any DVC resort.

One can choose on what IS still great or only focus on the downsides. If I focused on my restrictions with my resale week with MVC, how I can't call as early to book, how I can't exchange my week for Marriott points (not that I ever would anyway), than I would miss that I got a very good buy on a fabulous property that I now get to stay at an extra week. And for us, that is AWESOME!!!

Even though we aren't affected by this change, I'm highly annoyed by it.

We're "going to Disney" later this month, except now, maybe not nearly so much. We were already staying offsite in my other timeshare off I-drive. Now, largely because of this move, we're planning to buy APs from Universal and go from there.

This is how it happened with Microsoft for me. Win8 didn't just suck, they actively preventing my ability to interface in a familiar way. They were going to "train me" to use their new interface. Instead, they trained me how to use an IPad and now, IPhone, my first of both.

In both cases, I perceive disloyalty bordering on spite. Yes, Disney has to do what's best for Disney, but an essential component of that is respecting its customers.

Now. After 6 trips to WDW as members in the last two years, we're going to try Universal for the first time. If we like it, well DVC rooms will work for Universal Trips, too.

 

[southerngirl528]

DVC is just like any other timeshare company, except charging a premium for the magic and proximity to a themepark.

Actually DVC IS still different in many respects. Wish I had copied and pasted a post I just did on this very, very same thing.

DVC is a points-based system so we can stay as little as 1 night or stay for weeks if we have the points and it's available.
DVC allows any day of the week check-in. Other TS often require weekend check-in days
DVC does not charge to bank or borrow. Some TS do.
DVC does not charge to "lock-off". Marriott does.
DVC offers free transportation from MCO for WDW DVC resorts. Seriously? Can you get that at another TS?

I know there are more differences, but those are a few. Anyone that says DVC is just like other TS does not know other TS.

 

[ziravan]

I thought it was because DVC represents a lower-cost alternative for on-site Disney accommodations.

People aren't paying $120 per point for 25 years at the Beach Club because "Disney is different"...they're doing it because of the proximity to Epcot, existence of Stormalong Bay and the fact that the net cost will be far less than the +/- $600 per night they charge for BC hotel rooms.

We love BCV.

I'm discovering more and more that I also love Bonnet Creek.

 

[tjkraz]

They were different, unique, innovative. We are members of a club. That's how they promote and present themselves.

...and Camel cigarettes were once promoted as being good for our health.

Many people are now finding out, it was really just a selling point and DVC is just like any other timeshare company, except charging a premium for the magic and proximity to a themepark.

THAT is really the true issue here: perception vs. reality.

Who is really at fault, though: Disney for not living up to some individuals' expectations, or individuals who are now discovering that Disney truly is "just another timeshare" which happens to be repped by a mouse and built at a theme park's doorstep?

 

[sgtdisney]

I know there are more differences, but those are a few. Anyone that says DVC is just like other TS does not know other TS.

Just repeating what I've been reading from others saying that Disney is a timeshare company and all other timeshare companies do the same things. Yes, Disney does many things differently, which is why we bought, but in my opinion they are moving toward the competition as opposed to pulling away from them.

Just want to reiterate, I understand why Disney is doing what they are doing, I just really don't like how they are doing it. Also, everyone can say what they want about resale pricing, but until I see otherwise in upcoming years, I see this as negatively impacting it, at least in the short term.

 

[tjkraz]

This is how it happened with Microsoft for me. Win8 didn't just suck, they actively preventing my ability to interface in a familiar way. They were going to "train me" to use their new interface. Instead, they trained me how to use an IPad and now, IPhone, my first of both.

...

Now. After 6 trips to WDW as members in the last two years, we're going to try Universal for the first time. If we like it, well DVC rooms will work for Universal Trips, too.

What happens when Apple and Universal irritate you? We all have our proverbial lines in the sand. But if we draw too many, we run out of beach.

Maybe this move will blow-up on Disney. Perhaps sales will suffer. And if that happens, Disney will adapt and change. Maybe we will see this decision reversed in a few years. And if that happens, everyone who hated the idea can laugh and laugh, and whip out their "I told you so"s. I can voice my opinions about success or failure...but at the end of the day, I really don't care about the outcome.

Probably the two most oft-repeated lines in the 15 years (gasp) I've been reading this forum are "buy where you want to stay" and "don't buy DVC for the perks!" Limiting perks--to a group who never had them in the first place--seems like an odd place to make a philosophical stand.