Recent Budget Threads and SAHMs

[susan1]

hi
did the best of best world thing! worked night duty at the local hospital, 8pm till 8am. was there all day for ds and to put him to bed at night and there to get him up in the morning. when he was school age same . was there to see him off and back home again. when he went to university the extra money was useful towards fees. now i have no excuse for night duty, just a habit i guess lol

 

[sara74]

Lots of good points going on here!

One thing that I had previously not considered...the business travelling husband. Because we are both in dentistry (DH is a periodontist) we don't really travel for work. The annual convention is about it and we don't even make it to these things every year. I think I have discounted in my mind the number of people who do overtime (paid and unpaid) and who have to travel for their jobs. When DH needs to 'work late' it is letters that he can write at home once the kids are asleep. If we had the types of jobs that people had described here, I would feel that one of us would need to be at home full time too. I guess this is my plug for healthcare jobs! Seems like we have lots of flexibility - nurses, dentists, etc.

Some other posters have mentioned another good point that I'd like to repeat as well. My pediatrician told this to me as well. One's future as a SAHM or WOHM is not set in stone. Our situations change and with them our needs change too. He suggested, like some other posters did, that we reassess our family every year to see if what we are all doing is working for us. For some that means working more one year, less another. His professional opinion was that if we were happy then we were doing it right and that no one else could tell us how to do it.

I am feeling so nice with this thread in that there is a discussion going on and my blood pressure seems to be staying pretty normal! It is so nice to have an open dialogue about this stuff.

 

[sara74]

I, too, am a self-employed, work-from-home parent and I can't even tell you how interesting it is to be neither here-nor-there with regards to this whole mommy war thing. I've been viewed with suspicion by both camps and, I have to say, it's so amusing. We as a society have become invested in having individuals' own ways of living their lives acknowledged as "right" that it's almost impossible to get anyone to admit that there may be more than one True Path.

I do think that the debate is "uniquely American". We're especially gifted at this kind of naval gazing and insistence on external validation. What we seem to miss is that, while we're busy sniping at each other about whose choices and arrangements are better, we're not working together to put pressure where it needs to be to make sure that all our children recieve the rights - appropriate education, medical care, access to food and proper housing, etc. - that they deserve. It's a lot easier for us to sling arrows back and forth at each other, after all, than to stand together in our differences and work for changes that would benefit everyone, no matter how they organize their families.

Sounds like we have a pretty similar situation! Now if we could just change the world...

Pretty much just quoting you so that more people read your post as I think it is really well written and makes some important points!

 

[sara74]

THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO SAY!!!! Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Seems everyone wants to just jump over me cuz I said the same basic thing. Some people read into things just want they want to read.. I stated over and over, i have NO PROBLEM with working parents, My problem lies, when parents work 10 hrs a day and leave their kids in daycare/school after care- all day, then pick them up at 6pm, (after leaving at 7am) and then feed them supper, tuck them in bed and thats it.. 5 days a week. In MY opinion, that is not fair to the child. That is exactly what i meant!!!!!
To those who said i sounded offensive.. Hey, what can i say, read into it what you want, i am not going to keep defending my point of view, just remember, what is "offensive to you" might be just as others are thinking. And what you say could easily be "offensive to me".. Take it or leave it. That's what makes the world go round..
If you knew me in person, you would see i am the LAST one who personally attacks people or trys to hurt others!! If you read into my posts for more than what were intended, i am sorry.. really!
This is my honest opinion. I also NEVER said that the route of ALL misbehaved kids lies due to working parents.. jeez! However, with that being said,I am SURE that some kids would have turned out better mannered if they had a constant parent around! Operative word here is SOME kids.

So, Treboats, i am sorry if you are so offended of my posts! But, This is my honest true to myself opinion.. and from reading the following posts after mine on pages 8 & 9 , i am obviously not alone!

Sara74, Again, please read my above post.. Moms who work 2-3 days a week, or even 5 days a week are not my problem!!!!!!!!!!! My problem are moms or dads that work 5 days a week 10-12 hrs a week and see their kids for 2 hrs a day!!! That is what i am trying to say in all this mess!

Whew. Honestly..I AM a nice person!! I am a WORKING MOM - rasing a daughter!!

No harm, no foul. Honestly, I'm sure you are a nice person! I think that the people who participate in these threads are generally all nice people! Sometimes (self included) we get fired up and sometimes a tone is hard to get across while typing! We are all just trying to do what is right and it is hard to accept (again, self included) that what works for us may not work for everyone else, and what works for someone else might seem terrible to us and be just great for them.

 

[Reflection]

Originally Posted by MrsPete
When my kids were younger, I found great day care for them. I felt good about where they were during the day. When I picked them up, they'd run to me with a big smile and lots to say about what they'd done. However, GOOD day care doesn't come cheap, and everyone can't afford it -- it's cost, not availability.

I was fortunate with my daycare (inhome and at a center). I completely agree that it is cost and not availability when it comes to good day care.

Originally posted by Sk!Mom
...I do think that, as usual, more education tends to give you more choices.

Completely agree, again, and would hazard that the moms referenced by the OP for whatever reasons likely have limited education and as a result fewer choices.

 

[foofanella]

she professes to be a public relations professional, but in actualilty, she works about 5 hours a week - her one child is 13 years old, in school from 8 - 4 every day.

She takes all our friends handmedowns, but lives in a 2 br apartment in manhattan (NY) worth about 1MM.

She had to beg the directors at her DD's summer camp to give her a partial scholarship.

Her ex-husband pays child support but is now remarried and wants an accounting of her spending (he wants to support the DD, but NOT the D-ex-wife).

So I wind up buying the DD all of her Cool Clothes, taking her out to dinner etc.

Why? So she can say "oh, I could NEVER work at a full-time job, who would be home for my DD"?

I immediately think of my friend when I read these posts.

It's just irresponsible. To me, it's a lot more important for your child to feel secure that there are groceries in the cabinet, electric when you flick the switch and that Mom is a strong, secure woman who can make it on her own that physically "having" a body there 4 days a week for 3 hours.

It's just my $.02. My DH works 60-70 hours a week and often has to travel on a moment's notice so I sacrificed my career (advertising executive) and became a part-time fill in at agencies. I won't work more that 4 days a week and rarely get home after 6. Ideally I would rather work 3. And even my DH has commented that I am a better mom and wife when I am taking some time for myself...

 

[Caitsmama]

Thank you very much Sara74! Exactly what i was going to get at!! :O)

 

[jodifla]

No harm, no foul. Honestly, I'm sure you are a nice person! I think that the people who participate in these threads are generally all nice people! Sometimes (self included) we get fired up and sometimes a tone is hard to get across while typing! We are all just trying to do what is right and it is hard to accept (again, self included) that what works for us may not work for everyone else, and what works for someone else might seem terrible to us and be just great for them.

I'm consistently impressed with your posts and find myself agreeing with you most of the time.

I'm a SAHM now, but only because my husband got a job that he really, really wanted in his hometown, so we decided to relocate. I had to leave my job of almost 20 years. My DS,, 4, is in preschool..one a speech and language preschool, the other a traditional preschool, because it's best for his situation.

I was planning to go back to work, at least part time, after a year off, but as I look as his school schedule for the coming year, speech therapy, one preschool that's 3 hours a day, the other that's 6, well, it doesn't look possible. So I'm going to start freelancing to bring in extra money. I do plan to return to work when the time is right. I love what I do.

As the daughter of a SAHM, I find many women are quite naive. Mom was personally and financially devasted when my dad left her for someone younger than me. And because she hadn't worked most of her life, she had no retirement. She was counting on her and my dad's combined Social Security to get them by.

If you can afford to be a SAHM and have your retirement and college for the kids taken care of, that's great. Otherwise, you leaving your kids with a heavy burden....you. My parent's retirement fell to me.

Personally, I would have preferred it if my mom was bringing in income to take care of herself in her old age, not greeting me in the afternoons after school. Not always scraping by would have been helpful, too.

 

[offwegotoneverland]

I had to kind of think about this before posting and I'm still somewhat confused in my thoughts so I'm trying not to offend or be offended.

When DS was little I was still starting my career. DH and I looked at our "jobs" and realized he was paid more but was deadended (no where to go with it upward). I had lots of upward possible but would need to work at it. He worked shifts and so did I.

We found an amazing babysitter (homecare) for DS. He loves her still. Heck I love her still. With the shifts there were times where he was there for 3 hours others for the dreaded 10 hours (I worked a 8.5 hour day and had a long commute as well).

That time was required to get to a point where we don't live paycheque to paycheque, to a point in my work where DH could stay home at least 6 months each time we move, to vacation at disney yearly, to have a job I can both work at and support my family with..and leave to go to my son's school for a play or similiar with out an issue.

For us it was overwhelming the correct choice....even if to others at that time it didn't seem that way.

And my son is also very proud of what I do & the impact my role has in the community we live in. As proud of me as I was of my mostly stay at home mom who didn't return to work till I was 16.

I think the answer is that we need to know what the whole plan is and not just what may be happening now.

 

[jodifla]

I had to kind of think about this before posting and I'm still somewhat confused in my thoughts so I'm trying not to offend or be offended.

When DS was little I was still starting my career. DH and I looked at our "jobs" and realized he was paid more but was deadended (no where to go with it upward). I had lots of upward possible but would need to work at it. He worked shifts and so did I.

We found an amazing babysitter (homecare) for DS. He loves her still. Heck I love her still. With the shifts there were times where he was there for 3 hours others for the dreaded 10 hours (I worked a 8.5 hour day and had a long commute as well).

That time was required to get to a point where we don't live paycheque to paycheque, to a point in my work where DH could stay home at least 6 months each time we move, to vacation at disney yearly, to have a job I can both work at and support my family with..and leave to go to my son's school for a play or similiar with out an issue.

For us it was overwhelming the correct choice....even if to others at that time it didn't seem that way.

And my son is also very proud of what I do & the impact my role has in the community we live in. As proud of me as I was of my mostly stay at home mom who didn't return to work till I was 16.

I think the answer is that we need to know what the whole plan is and not just what may be happening now.

This is very true. My DH became a freelancer when DS was just born so he could be based at home, and I worked at a job downtown. Now, we've switched roles. But if finances dictated, then I'd be back to full-time work in a heartbeat.

To me, some of the SAHMs stay out of work even when it's not the best choice for their family. Money isn't "everything" but it's pretty darn important. At some point, it IS more important to have money coming in to fund retirement and college funds than to be doing arts & crafts projects with your kids.

 

[dvcgirl]

This is very true. My DH became a freelancer when DS was just born so he could be based at home, and I worked at a job downtown. Now, we've switched roles. But if finances dictated, then I'd be back to full-time work in a heartbeat.

To me, some of the SAHMs stay out of work even when it's not the best choice for their family. Money isn't "everything" but it's pretty darn important. At some point, it IS more important to have money coming in to fund retirement and college funds than to be doing arts & crafts projects with your kids.

No kids here, but both of my sisters have infants. Both have decided to continue with their work One sister is a very successful executive with a company that does billions in revenue each year. Her spouse is now working from home and they have live-in help. So at least someone is almost always there with my nephew. Ultimately, that sister plans to go out on her own and begin her own consulting firm, but right now there's too much money on the table for her to walk.

My other sister works in the pharmaceutical industy and went from full-time down to 4 days per week and works from home about 80% of the time. She lives near my parents and so if there is overnight travel one of them, grandma or grandpa helps out . My little niece does go to daycare occasionally, but only for a few hours at a time.

And so for them, it's worked out so far. I know that it's not always easy, but they felt that it was important to continue working and saving towards retirement and for college down the road.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

As a teacher, if there's one thing I've learned, it's that nothing works for everyone. That's why absolutes in education policies drive me crazy (they should drive all parents equally crazy!).

There is no one correct answer for every family - whether you are talking about being a SAHM, or what shoes to buy, or which Math class your child should take. We are lucky to live in a society where moms CAN work if they need to. I'm a little scared that many families won't be able to afford to have a stay at home mom, but that is me. It appears that many households can still afford to make this choice.

I do think that if someone is getting in debt, can't afford basics for their children, then maybe they need to rethink the SAHM choice. On the other hand, I think that some families are making a big sacrifice having someone else take care of their very young children so that they can have an expensive car, a big house, etc...and maybe that isn't the best choice for their children's sake either.

 

[DVC Sadie]

I'm a SAHM now, but only because my husband got a job that he really, really wanted in his hometown, so we decided to relocate. I had to leave my job of almost 20 years. My DS,, 4, is in preschool..one a speech and language preschool, the other a traditional preschool, because it's best for his situation.

I was planning to go back to work, at least part time, after a year off, but as I look as his school schedule for the coming year, speech therapy, one preschool that's 3 hours a day, the other that's 6, well, it doesn't look possible. So I'm going to start freelancing to bring in extra money. I do plan to return to work when the time is right. I love what I do.

As the daughter of a SAHM, I find many women are quite naive. Mom was personally and financially devasted when my dad left her for someone younger than me. And because she hadn't worked most of her life, she had no retirement. She was counting on her and my dad's combined Social Security to get them by.

If you can afford to be a SAHM and have your retirement and college for the kids taken care of, that's great. Otherwise, you leaving your kids with a heavy burden....you. My parent's retirement fell to me.

Personally, I would have preferred it if my mom was bringing in income to take care of herself in her old age, not greeting me in the afternoons after school. Not always scraping by would have been helpful, too.

I do understand exactly what you are saying. I can't tell you how many neighbors in my old neighborhood up in Maryland that found themselves having to look for a job because their husband left them either for someone else (90%) or because they just didn't want to be married anymore. Some of the women went to live with their children and others were forced to get jobs for the first time since they had children. It was absolutely devastating to them and worse their children. Now some of these moms are just scraping by and just starting to try to save for their own retirements in their late 40's early 50's.

It will be the children taking care of the parents and that will be hard for both the parent and the children who take them in.

I guess what I am trying to say is if a person chooses to be a SAHM I hope that she continues to fully fund her own retirement account as well as putting money aside for the college fund.

Be it SAHM or WOHM I just want them to be fully vested in their own retirements and be able to take care of themselves if ever the need arises.

 

[ElizaB39]

I have tried to stay away, really! I am a SAHM and a WOHM. I currently work for my DH in is office, as an office manager. I only work when the kids are in school. I have all breaks and summers off and I meet the school bus in the afternoon.

I started working for him the day my DS went to full day parochial school Kindergarten. Prior to that I was off full-time for two years and prior to that worked for 14 years for the Fed Govt.

During my time as a fed, I worked part-time after my DD was born, I went to 80% of full time; I had 4 months maternity leave, paid in various forms (sick leave and annual leave). Then I had DS 3 1/2 years later, I took 6 months off, and went back to work 4 days a week. Two years later I went to 3 days a week. Then DH started working and travelling more and more and we decided the stress of me working was costing our family too much in too many ways. I went in to meet with my boss, and said I was leaving, and she did all she could to keep me there; offers of the summer off, then down to 2 days a week with no managerial responsibility and etc. WE TURNED THAT GREAT OFFER DOWN! What was I thinking? ...of my family and our quality of life.

It has worked out great for us. I get calls occasionally from people I used to work with and they ask me to come back to work! And, I just got a job offer today from my church.

When I decided to quit my job, I told DH that I didn't care if we never moved from our townhouse (we really wanted to move to a SF) I was quitting and he totally agreed with me! Now 5 years later we have bought a great home (been living here for a year and a half). Financially we are doing fine. I think what happened FOR US is that when we finally made the commitment to our decision, everything else fell into place (financials). Do I miss certain spending? Yes, everything is a bargain for me. That is why I am using a 30 year old leather recliner from my in laws and I just put my finger through a soft spot; my tables are old and cheap, and I consider decorating new paint on the walls.

We have been SO HAPPY with our decision. Whenever we discuss a new career or job opportunity for me, it is with much deliberation over what we now know we would be giving up. We previously didn't know what we would be missing and now we do (since I have been "staying home").

The funny thing is I always call myself a SAHM even though I work 30 hours a week when I am working, which IS the majority of the year! I guess that is because of my mindset?

 

[DVCLiz]

I do understand exactly what you are saying. I can't tell you how many neighbors in my old neighborhood up in Maryland that found themselves having to look for a job because their husband left them either for someone else (90%) or because they just didn't want to be married anymore. Some of the women went to live with their children and others were forced to get jobs for the first time since they had children. It was absolutely devastating to them and worse their children. Now some of these moms are just scraping by and just starting to try to save for their own retirements in their late 40's early 50's.

It will be the children taking care of the parents and that will be hard for both the parent and the children who take them in.

I guess what I am trying to say is if a person chooses to be a SAHM I hope that she continues to fully fund her own retirement account as well as putting money aside for the college fund.

Be it SAHM or WOHM I just want them to be fully vested in their own retirements and be able to take care of themselves if ever the need arises.

I had a meeting today with my estate attorney, who is also a former neighbor. We started talking about all the couples we grew up with in that neighborhood. We met when we were young marrieds, and lived in the same neighborhood until our youngest children were born. I'm guessing it was 15 - 20 years ago.

I should add that this was a "starter" neighborhood for couples who were going to be rising professionals. We had lots of lawyers, family business "heirs", etc. (DH and I were there because we rented instead of owned a family property - the house I had grown up in.) It was a tough crowd - all the moms were SAHM, all the young couples belonged to the Country Club, there was lots of social spending, etc. I was the only one who had to work, which I did full-time. I took a lot of grief ("When is your DH going to get a better job so you can stay home?") and it made me feel bad about us for a long time.

So, let's see, where are they now?? I'll choose the five I knew best, who lived on my block...

My best friend -she was and is a delight, but she was (and still is) married to a man who literally patted her on the leg once and said, "We just don't NEED DW to work." He lost his well-paying job in a specialized industry. Now he teaches school, after going back for a degree. His wife? She's been workign for 8 years now - she also went back to get a new degree, and now she's a semester away from a Master's. She'll be working until retirement to replace the debt they ran up after he lost his job. Two children.

My former next-door neighbor. BIG family money, heir to a family business. Still married, but only because they were able to work through her alcohol addiction and extra-marital affair. She's gone back to school in order to obtain a degree - she'll be working at least part time. Not for the money, but to give her some purpose other than waking up every day wondering how she'll spend his money. Four children.

The perfect couple down the street - We all loved them. They were cute, they were fun, they saved their money and worked hard, they gave up some things so she could stay at home. He left her last summer after 20 years and three children. Just came in and said he didn't want to be married anymore. The next day he drove up to her driveway on a motorcycle wearing black leather pants. Sh's gone back to work, too - using her professional degree. Three children.

The ditzy blond. Married to old family money, talked in a breathy whisper and was so sweet and sincere it kind of made your teeth hurt. Just beautiful. We thought they were the cutest couple. He just left her about 3 months ago, 2 children. She dabbled in a aprt0time hobby job for a while, but I just heard she's takebn a full-time job at a local college. Two children.

And my 2nd best friend. Another family business heir. Except it didn't work out, and he was fired from the family business. They struggled when he couldn't really find himself in any new career, they almost separated two or three times, but seemed to be able to stick out the bad times. I really did think they would be the ones to stay together forever. He left her last summer, too, after some sordid details which have had the enite town talking all year. She's humiliated - he spent their savings, unbeknownst to her, and now she's interviewing for a full-time job, too. Three children.

I know this is really long, but I've been thinking during this and the other SAHM threads. I do think you can't have this hindsight if you're parenting young children - there just hasn't been enough time pass to see these outcomes. Really sad. I hope no one ever has to go through this - but the numbers are there, and unless there are some dramatic changes, there will be half of us who have marriages that fail. I hope all of the moms on this thread who say, "That will never be us" are absolutely right - I hope it's not you, either.

 

[Tracey1974]

I get sad reading about how the SAHMs get to be home with thier kids all day, cook for thier hubbys and run errands all day. I work 4 days a week and am home on Fridays and weekends. I get to pretend I am a SAHM 3 days a week. I have to work, I just have to. DH makes a nice salary but we just can't do the house, student loans, car payment, ect on one right now. DS1 stays with my aunt and we pay her a pittance compared to what it is worth to us for it to be her that watches him. I really want another baby next year- I thought it would be easy to have 2, then I could stay home for 5 years and go back but now I don't know if we can do that. DH says he is happy with one and that is all we can afford. Together we make over 100K- it just isn't enough and we don't spend like crazy.

It took me 8 years putting myself through school to get that piece of paper that hangs on my wall and another 10 for me to actually own it after paying off student loans. That degree is one of the most treasured possessions I have and is almost my greatest accomplishment in life second to my son. I would love to be able to stay home for DS every day and have dinner ready at 6pm and have my house clean all day, I really would but this is my life and I accept it and I'm thankful to have a job that affords me the flexibility of working 4 days a week rather than 5.

Don't know why I posted this, I just got sad reading the thread about never going back to work and wanted to get it off my chest.

 

[sara74]

I get sad reading about how the SAHMs get to be home with thier kids all day, cook for thier hubbys and run errands all day. I work 4 days a week and am home on Fridays and weekends. I get to pretend I am a SAHM 3 days a week. I have to work, I just have to. DH makes a nice salary but we just can't do the house, student loans, car payment, ect on one right now. DS1 stays with my aunt and we pay her a pittance compared to what it is worth to us for it to be her that watches him. I really want another baby next year- I thought it would be easy to have 2, then I could stay home for 5 years and go back but now I don't know if we can do that. DH says he is happy with one and that is all we can afford. Together we make over 100K- it just isn't enough and we don't spend like crazy.

It took me 8 years putting myself through school to get that piece of paper that hangs on my wall and another 10 for me to actually own it after paying off student loans. That degree is one of the most treasured possessions I have and is almost my greatest accomplishment in life second to my son. I would love to be able to stay home for DS every day and have dinner ready at 6pm and have my house clean all day, I really would but this is my life and I accept it and I'm thankful to have a job that affords me the flexibility of working 4 days a week rather than 5.

Don't know why I posted this, I just got sad reading the thread about never going back to work and wanted to get it off my chest.

You posted to get someone to give you a virtual hug and here it is All of this talk about different lifestyles can make people crazy - heck I was crazy enough to post on that other thread and it got me a good tongue lashing! It is enough to make one reconsider what they do if they aren't totally happy and you don't seem at all happy. Here's another hug
Don't get sad, consider the positives. No one can take your education away from you. Your DS is beautiful and you are the center of his world even if someone else wipes his nose some days. You sond like you have flexibility in your job, do you like your field? Do you achieve satisfaction from work as well as from the days you are home? My gut reaction is always that anyone who seems worried about their kids is already a good parent - it's the one's that never worry that scare me!

That said, if you are really sad about things, could you make a change? I think working or staying home are both great options...if what you do makes you happy! If you are unhappy is there a way to make things different? Don't feel obligated to work just because you worked so hard to get your degree. That degree is an accomplishment all its own! Here I am only part time with a doctorate and a ton of student loans too, but we're happy. Someone might say I should work more since I did so much to get the degree, many would say I shouldn't work since I have the kids. I say it works for us and I have a couple of sweet kids and another coming soon.

Please don't be sad, I don't think that it was anyone's intention to make anyone feel sad, and I hope you have a good night!

 

[sara74]

The funny thing is I always call myself a SAHM even though I work 30 hours a week when I am working, which IS the majority of the year! I guess that is because of my mindset?

That did make me laugh since in January I am going down to 2 days a week and yet with my paltry 15 hours of employment will call myself a WOHM just the same. It is all one's own perspective, isn't it? I guess all this stuff is one's own perspective. There are many ways to skin this cat (what a horrible phrase that is) and there are some of us that are in the middle, neither fully WOHM nor SAHM and we have to find *something* to call ourselves! Somehow we all seem to need to go beyond just 'moms' and make more labels/categories for ourselves. Why don't the DH's have these issues?

 

[ANNFMUR]

These posts are making me feel better and better about my situation. As I said earlier I have never fit in to the stay at home mom or work at home mom category. I am just trying to weave this (family, career etc.) into something beautiful.

I have to say that last year when I was going through a "I don't know if I want to work" phase Disney got me through. I'm not kidding. I am a pretty deep person but knowing my work was going to get my family to Disney was a major motivator. And it worked so well we are going back next year!!!!

Really, I love to hear how people make this all work.

 

[ANNFMUR]

Sara 74

I am wishing you health and blessings with the impending birth. How awesome!!!