Reassurance about Fidelity please! Final update page 8--we are in!

[hauntedcity]

I'm in the middle of a purchase through Fidelity. I had heard that they were moving very slowly because of the 3/20 brouhaha, which is understandable, so I just planned on it. However, I must admit that the process has been even slower than I expected.

That said, despite some confusing moments, the purchase is still moving forward. As long as I have my DVC in the end (hopefully SOONER rather than LATER), I'll be happy.

Doug

 

[bdtracey]

Sorry to dig this back up again but DW told me to research into Fidelity. I'm thinking about making an offer on one of their contracts that is $10 less per point than anything else they have on there. Hopefully it isn't anything messy.

If we have a trip planned at the end of September would it be advisable to go through Fidelity or should we just try and negotiate on a TSS contract? We'd offer exactly what the Fidelity contract is asking. Do you guys think this is cutting it too close?

Thoughts?

 

[JimMIA]

Sorry to dig this back up again but DW told me to research into Fidelity. I'm thinking about making an offer on one of their contracts that is $10 less per point than anything else they have on there. Hopefully it isn't anything messy.

If we have a trip planned at the end of September would it be advisable to go through Fidelity or should we just try and negotiate on a TSS contract? We'd offer exactly what the Fidelity contract is asking. Do you guys think this is cutting it too close?

Thoughts?

I would look at the long term, rather than focusing either on a September trip or squeezing every last penny out of a contract. I mean, how important is a couple hundred bucks in the context of a 30 year ownership of DVC? And it would be a shame to find a "perfect" contract for you and lose out for a small amount of money.

Generally speaking, if a contract is priced $10 pp below similar contracts there's a reason why. It might be stripped, the points might be messed up...who knows? I'd sure look at a contract like that very closely and find out why it's priced so low.

Given the choice between The Timeshare Store and Fidelity, I would jump at the Timeshare Store in a heartbeat.

For your September trip, you are cutting it very close and it's likely that you won't be able to find much availability by the time you close. You're looking at 6-8 weeks -- maybe more -- for the whole process. So if you're going to get anything in Sept, you're going to need a good bit of luck and a lot of flexibility.

I certainly would NOT do anything based on trying to make that September trip happen. Don't throw your common sense away for a trivial gain.

 

[bdtracey]

I would look at the long term, rather than focusing either on a September trip or squeezing every last penny out of a contract. I mean, how important is a couple hundred bucks in the context of a 30 year ownership of DVC? And it would be a shame to find a "perfect" contract for you and lose out for a small amount of money.

Generally speaking, if a contract is priced $10 pp below similar contracts there's a reason why. It might be stripped, the points might be messed up...who knows? I'd sure look at a contract like that very closely and find out why it's priced so low.

Given the choice between The Timeshare Store and Fidelity, I would jump at the Timeshare Store in a heartbeat.

For your September trip, you are cutting it very close and it's likely that you won't be able to find much availability by the time you close. You're looking at 6-8 weeks -- maybe more -- for the whole process. So if you're going to get anything in Sept, you're going to need a good bit of luck and a lot of flexibility.

I certainly would NOT do anything based on trying to make that September trip happen. Don't throw your common sense away for a trivial gain.

I hear ya...I really do.

The thing that I am concerned about is that if we can use points to pay for our September trip we'll be able to stay at a DVC resort rather than CBR and we could put the $1500 from that reservation towards our DVC contract.

I agree that I need to be skeptical of this contract. It has over 200 points from 2010, all 2011 points, nothing borrowed AND over $10 cheaper per point. I'm smelling divorce but you never know. Hopefully Rachel can give me some info regarding this. If it's something messy I'll likely just stay away from it and go through TSS.

 

[rock_doctor]

It probably is a divorce or near foreclosure. That is the deal when you deal with Fidelity. It is commonly known that the majority of their contracts are distressed and the reason they are cheaper. If you do go for it you must stay on top of the time line. If something gets close call and if something starts to slip keep calling until something starts moving again. I would also look up the deed on Orange Counties website to make sure nothing is going on. If it is a good deal then it is worth the extra trouble. Practice patience and use the redial button frequently.

 

[Cheltenham]

Without jumping into the good/bad Fidelity debate, you should know that several of the other brokers have the ability to submit offers on contracts listed on Fidelity's website.

If you're not comfortable with Fidelity, I'd just contact another broker and handle the purchase and closing through them.

How does this work? Do I just call the Timeshare Store, for example, and tell them I am interested in making an offer on a particular Fidelity listing and the Timeshare Store makes the arrangments? Do they take over the whole process from Fidelity or are they just a go between, with Fidelity still actually handling the paperwork? I presume they somehow split the commission.

 

[bdtracey]

It probably is a divorce or near foreclosure. That is the deal when you deal with Fidelity. It is commonly known that the majority of their contracts are distressed and the reason they are cheaper. If you do go for it you must stay on top of the time line. If something gets close call and if something starts to slip keep calling until something starts moving again. I would also look up the deed on Orange Counties website to make sure nothing is going on. If it is a good deal then it is worth the extra trouble. Practice patience and use the redial button frequently.

Thanks for the info! What type of information do I need to look up the deed on the Orange County website? Also, what is the web address for it?

Thanks!

 

[JimMIA]

How does this work? Do I just call the Timeshare Store, for example, and tell them I am interested in making an offer on a particular Fidelity listing and the Timeshare Store makes the arrangments? Do they take over the whole process from Fidelity or are they just a go between, with Fidelity still actually handling the paperwork? I presume they somehow split the commission.

I'd call the Timeshare Store directly to be sure, but I do not think they co-broker with Fidelity. But other brokers do, including some often mentioned here and others who can't be mentioned.

The process is your broker represents you and Fidelity represents the seller. Your broker handles all the contacts with Fidelity, which is helpful. Once everything is agreed and the contract passes ROFR, it goes to a separate closing company for closing.

And yes, the two brokers split the commission...which is paid by the SELLER incidentally.

 

[DVCconvert]

I'd call the Timeshare Store directly to be sure, but I do not think they co-broker with Fidelity. But other brokers do.

This is the only way to go IMHO.
I've done this and it's worked great!
I've repeatedly (in the past) been 'hung out to dry' by Fidelity (specifically broker "R" ) when I've called them directly

 

[JimMIA]

Thanks for the info! What type of information do I need to look up the deed on the Orange County website? Also, what is the web address for it?

Thanks!

Near the top of the DVC Operations Board thread listings, you will see a "Sticky" entitled DVC Resource Center. It's priceless, and one of the things you'll find there is a link to the Orange County Comptroller's site.

To use that site, you must know the seller's name and you must enter it exactly as the site instructions tell you to or you'll get nothing.

I would search for everything, and some of the things that would set off alarm bells for me are:

• judgements
• liens
• Lis Pendens - a legal filing indicating the intention to file suit which establishes the filer's place in line for claims on that asset
• mortgages
• deed in lieu of foreclosure (This would actually mean that the "seller" has given the DVC contract back to Disney and no longer owns it! There's been at least one case like that with Fidelity very recently)
• any other document that looks like it might encumber the ownership in any way

You should also find there the original deed to the seller as well as mortgages and mortgage satisfactions, and lots of other stuff.

You will NOT find divorce or probate information there, however. Those would be found on the website of the Orange County Clerk of the Courts, which you may have to Google.

 

[heynowirv]

We bought a 25 point contract near the 3/20 deadline thru sharon and everything worked out as well as our first contract thru TTS. Yes i'd buy from them again in a heartbeat .

 

[JimMIA]

It is commonly known that the majority of their contracts are distressed and the reason they are cheaper.

I don't know if it's accurate to say that the majority of their contracts are distressed, but certainly a LOT of them are. The reason for that is that Fidelity has a contract with DVC whereby DVC refers owners who want to sell to Fidelity in return for 50% of the sales commission. Often those owners are selling because they HAVE to rather than want to, and that can be a serious problem for the prospective buyer.

This problem is compounded by the fact that, unlike other brokers, Fidelity apparently does zero due diligence before listing a contract. They don't know a contract is a mess until either Disney tells them the points are wrong or there are payments past due, etc; the seller can't get the paperwork done because of legal complications (divorce, probate, lawsuits, etc); the prospective buyer finds out (like the one where the seller didn't even own the contract!); or when the seller needs to bring cash to closing and can't.

Any of those situations (and that's certainly not a complete list of all the problems that could be present) can really mess the buyer up. You won't lose money, but you could lose out in other ways. Best case scenario, you lose up to two months of time. Worst case, you're chasing a contract that can't close and other attractive contracts are being snatched up by other buyers.

This apparent lack of due diligence is a big problem for prospective buyers, and you really have to protect yourself with this company to avoid disappointment.

 

[bdtracey]

Alright, so here's the situation I'm in now. First off, so far so good with Fidelity. Decent communication but the process only started yesterday.

Found 250 points at SSR at $52/point. Asked why so cheap and it sounds like the sellers are in financial trouble and need to unload it. Also found out that they have not paid their 2011 dues but did pay the 2010 dues. According to Fidelity all of this gets taken care of before the seller gets their money.

According to Fidelity:
- All I'm doing to pay is the $52/point x 250 points = $13,000 + $475 for full closing = $13,475.
- The 2011 dues which have not been paid will be paid for out of the $13,475 at the time of closing before the seller gets their money.
- There is no reason why anything would get held up due to the unpaid dues/maintenance fees

JimMIA - thanks for the help with the Orange County website stuff and my apologies for not searching harder...sure sounds like I have my work cut out for me.

I'm still a little nervous about going directly through Fidelity; never thought about having TSS as my agent going through this. That probably would have made it A LOT easier. Oh well...here we go! See what happens. The way that I'm looking at it is if this goes sideways (1) I've learned something (2) it wasn't meant to be (3) I'm still going in September regardless of DVC membership (4) Something else will turn up again.

Positive thinking and patience will prevail!

Any and all thoughts, comments and concerns would be greatly appreciated!

 

[JimMIA]

According to Fidelity all of this gets taken care of before the seller gets their money.

I took this out of context because I want to give you a longer answer to the first part. THIS part is true.

Found 250 points at SSR at $52/point. Asked why so cheap and it sounds like the sellers are in financial trouble and need to unload it. Also found out that they have not paid their 2011 dues but did pay the 2010 dues.

Several comments. First, I assume $52 is the asking price. That's a low price, but other contracts have cleared ROFR lower ($47-48). So you have some room to go lower, and if they listed it low, it's likely they'll go a little lower. I wouldn't go crazy with that, but there should be a little room to negotiate.

With a seller in financial trouble, there are a couple of potential problem areas. That's not to say problems WILL occur, but there are a couple of likely risks.

First, you didn't mention the Use Year, but there is an issue there that could present problems.

If the contract is approaching the banking deadline (8 months into the UY), the normal practice is to ask the owner to bank the points to avoid the possibility of losing them. If the dues are not paid, they will not be allowed to bank. Since the whole process is going to take two months or so, you could slip past the banking deadline with no way to save the points.

The big risk with sellers in financial trouble, though, is that they sometimes just can't close. This is especially true if they financed their DVC contract. If they bought in the last 2-3 years at around $100 per point and financed, they are likely underwater on their mortgage. In order to close, they will have to pay off the mortgage, AND pay the dues.

At $52 per point, their gross proceeds are going to be about $11,500. If they owe more than that on their loan (which might have started out at $20,000+), and they have to pay the dues, they could be looking at PAYING IN $5,000-$6,000 (or more) to close.

Obviously, if they're in financial trouble, they may not be able to do that and the deal would fall through. You wouldn't lose any money, but you would have wasted two months.

That underwater/needing cash-to-close issue is one that Fidelity tends to turn a blind eye to, apparently hoping things will work out. There have been several cases of things not working out.

Before you make a solid offer, I would ask Fidelity how much (if anything) the sellers owe on their contract and try to figure out how realistic it is for them to close. I don't think they are required to give you that info, but I think you can see from the above that you have a legitimate practical reason to request it.

 

[bdtracey]

Thanks Jim! Use year is August which means that the 201 points that they have from 2010 are pretty much gone. There is no way that I can see getting around this which kind of sucks. Can think of any way that this is avoidable at all in the slightest? It's definitely not a deal breaker for us but would be a great perk to have.

Fidelity did offer up the info that there is NOT a mortgage on this property so that takes a bunch of the risk out of it. That's not to say that they didn't secure financing aside from Disney but that wouldn't affect sale...or at least to my knowledge it wouldn't. After talking with the folks at Fidelity they cannot foresee any issues with closing. I'm going for the "Full Closing" option and will also do all of my own checking to see if anything jumps out at me.

My initial offer was $50/point and then thought better of it and emailed Fidelity back and told them just to offer the $52/point. I don't know what it was but I just felt better giving them what they asked for. If they're in tough financial times an extra $500 might make a world of difference to them. Would I like to pay $500 less...definitely but it just didn't feel right. Kind of felt like kicking someone when they were down. I don't even want to imagine being in the situation where I have to sell something as special as this. I know that a person shouldn't put an emotional value on a timeshare/pre-purchased vacation but it's also difficult not to.

Well, that's enough from me for now. I'm going to go through this contract with a fine toothed comb and see if I can come up with anything suspicious. I'll report back if I find anything.

Thanks again!

 

[JimMIA]

My initial offer was $50/point and then thought better of it and emailed Fidelity back and told them just to offer the $52/point. I don't know what it was but I just felt better giving them what they asked for. If they're in tough financial times an extra $500 might make a world of difference to them. Would I like to pay $500 less...definitely but it just didn't feel right. Kind of felt like kicking someone when they were down. I don't even want to imagine being in the situation where I have to sell something as special as this. I know that a person shouldn't put an emotional value on a timeshare/pre-purchased vacation but it's also difficult not to.

$52 is a very good price for both of you. First of all, I don't think you spent too much at all. And if you did, you did so for the right reasons. It does us all good to put ourselves in the other person's shoes every once in a while.

Unfortunately, we don't see ethics like this every day, but it's nice when it happens. I'm proud of you, and I'm sure I'm not alone.

Good luck and smooth sailing!

 

[appleorchard]

We just closed and had no problems from start to finish. 60 pt add-on at BWV.

 

[paults]

We also used Fidelity but all our problems were with the sellers being lazy or forgetful. So far the sellers cost us 18 days wasted because of not sending papers back in a timely manner. On the closing docs they just sent back they missed having the witnesses sign the docs so now we are waiting again.

 

[hauntedcity]

I'm in the middle of a purchase through Fidelity. I had heard that they were moving very slowly because of the 3/20 brouhaha, which is understandable, so I just planned on it. However, I must admit that the process has been even slower than I expected.

That said, despite some confusing moments, the purchase is still moving forward. As long as I have my DVC in the end (hopefully SOONER rather than LATER), I'll be happy.

Doug

Okay, so now were into June... I finally got documents from the title company on Friday, May 27. I was able to review, sign, and notarize all of them in time to get them mailed out the same day.

So, we're back to waiting, although this delay probably has more to do with the Title company, and not Fidelity. This whole thing started with contracts signed back on March 29, well AFTER the 3/20 deadline. I was aware that it could take a month or two, but it will probably be close to 3 months before I have possession of the points.

Doug

 

[marie1981]

Well, I am with Fidelity presently. I received the closing documents same day as you, may 27. I filled and fax everything and send payment the same day.

Just received an email to-day from the closing cie telling me that closing is done and documents have been send to Disney and points should be in my account soon. Like you mentionned, it depends on the seller too. I guess, mine was looking forward to get his money !!!

Everything went very smooth, from the beggining to the end (I take for granted that Disney will not let me down on that smooth sailing contract ! ) .