Re-sale gone wrong - Sellers lied - What do I do?

[ORD2KOA]

What's the rule of 4?

We just hope we get the original ownership status. Then we would be happy. I do think the prices will drop going forward, at least initially, so... but it's neither here nor there. We'll be happy.

We want to book in early November and worry we will not have the booking advantage by the time everything closes!!! Any advice?

Basically, the Rule of 4 is you can't decide to use your points outside DVC during the last four months of your use year unless you book those points in advance. DVC's explanation is that they can't sell/trade the space, blah, blah, blah. IMO, a load of garbage, but that's their party line. Why should it matter if the use years are spread among all of the club members? I know people with kids usually take a standard vacation, but many of us like to decide in February to do something in May. If your use year is June, you're locked out of anything except DVC.

My advice on November is to be flexible and ask to be waitlisted. The number of points required for the time you want to be there will be an indication of how busy it is.

Good luck!!

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I think you made the right decision and I hope, in the end, you have no regrets. If BWV had been there in 1994, that's where we would have purchased.

I had been sitting on that fence since the first time the stupid (I can't tell you how much I hate it) "rule of 4" screwed up my plans and finally decided that it was "now or never" to sell OKW and buy a smaller contract at BWV. So I jumped in mid-February.

The sale closed last week and the purchase passed ROFR yesterday. Now the dreaded wait until I can book our birthdays in December.

I'm curious how the rule of 4 made you decide to buy BWV and sell OKW? Was it just downsizing?

 

[TisBit]

I don't know if Disney even knows, and I doubt they care. I think virtually everyone who "jumped off the fence" purchased resale, and I doubt if very many of them were direct-purchase candidates.

Disney, like every other timeshare developer, is looking for the poorly-informed consumer who will make an impulsive, emotional purchase decision.

The new ability to show some tangible difference between direct and resale gives them a tool to confuse anyone who might have heard of the resale market. Given a little confusion, uninformed prospects will buy direct.

I agree that they made the changes to create confusion with buyers. I am not sure, if I were in the market for points I would want resale points....because of the changes. Not that I am uninformed, but because now that Disney has made a distinction in points, what changes might come down the road. What if DVC adds additional options (new vacation options, change in point structures which make them better deals, etc) to the "privileged" contracts and excluded the already limited contracts. While I doubt it will ever be significant, but it is possible and that uncertaintity would make me pause and think hard before making a purchase decision. But, that is the confusion they are hoping to create.

 

[ORD2KOA]

thank you for helping me understand. now i see why all the fuss before 3/20 close date. i hope everyone got what they wanted.

doesn't seem fair disney would get involved with there customers ....who may for one reason or another need to sell points.

When we talk about rule changes, etc., this is a perfect example, IMO, of how they can screw with people. DVC won't buy your points back from you, but they do require ROFR and now they've changed the rules for resale contracts.

It's a Catch-22 for the buyer and the seller. [This part of my comments are wrong as pointed out by JimMIA: If you want to buy at OKW or BWV, you can't buy the original resorts directly from DVC.] The only choice you have is to purchase resale, but now they've created a separate category of membership for resales.

As a life-long cynic, I'm beginning to wonder what they're going to do to the heirs when titles are transferred upon the death of an original member.

 

[JimMIA]

If you want to buy at OKW or BWV, you can't buy the original resorts directly from DVC.

This is incorrect.

You can buy points at ANY DVC resort direct from DVC, provided they have points in inventory. And they usually do. BCV is usually the only one where they might not have points available in a certain UY.

For example, several years ago DVC sent around a series of emails telling owners how many points they had at OKW in the various UYs. Here on the DIS, folks posted that info and the total was well over 100,000 OKW points available.

 

[ORD2KOA]

This is incorrect.

You can buy points at ANY DVC resort direct from DVC, provided they have points in inventory. And they usually do. BCV is usually the only one where they might not have points available in a certain UY.

For example, several years ago DVC sent around a series of emails telling owners how many points they had at OKW in the various UYs. Here on the DIS, folks posted that info and the total was well over 100,000 OKW points available.

I'm obviously misinformed. My bad. Thank you.

 

[JWG]

This is incorrect.

You can buy points at ANY DVC resort direct from DVC, provided they have points in inventory. And they usually do. BCV is usually the only one where they might not have points available in a certain UY.

For example, several years ago DVC sent around a series of emails telling owners how many points they had at OKW in the various UYs. Here on the DIS, folks posted that info and the total was well over 100,000 OKW points available.

I also believe (thought they haven't recently) that they would use ROFR to get those points for you if they could. I remember when my parents wanted to add on to BWV, they did not have the requisite # of points in the correct use year. But, sure enough, within weeks or a couple of months they did.

I imagine they bought and resold points to get that inventory (or someone defaulted on a loan, turned them in, etc.).

I am willing to bet that Disney will find a way to uncover points to a resort if you're committed to that resort. It likely won't be without heavy push to purchase at a readily available location, but a sale is a sale.

 

[Dean]

When we talk about rule changes, etc., this is a perfect example, IMO, of how they can screw with people. DVC won't buy your points back from you, but they do require ROFR and now they've changed the rules for resale contracts.

It's a Catch-22 for the buyer and the seller. [This part of my comments are wrong as pointed out by JimMIA: If you want to buy at OKW or BWV, you can't buy the original resorts directly from DVC.] The only choice you have is to purchase resale, but now they've created a separate category of membership for resales.

As a life-long cynic, I'm beginning to wonder what they're going to do to the heirs when titles are transferred upon the death of an original member.

Their view, and that of essentially every other timeshare developer, is that once you buy, you're locked in with limited ways out and limited return. The state of FL requires they tell you essentially this and DVD goes further than the state requires in making this clear in the documents. Timesharing requires the ability to hold your nose regarding some components of the system, esp sales.

 

[Terri2007]

I am certainly not as expert as many on this board and I always enjoy reading replies from experienced/intelligent DVC Operations posters... We purchased resale years ago now. It was not surprising to me that Disney made the resale/direct purchase change. There needed to be some difference to justify the large difference in resale vs. direct purchases. It certainly seemed making such as distinction was a common practice with other higher-end TS products out there (e.g. loss of Marriott vacation points with resale purchases). As a company, it seemed that one could rely on impulsive/inexperienced purchasers only so much (esp. with the downturn in the economy).


I see many people worrying in this and other threads about what other things Disney may do to resale purchases down the line. While some may think it is folly, I would not be too worried about further limitations on resale contracts. I would expect that if they need to make further distinctions to lower the "value" of resale contracts and shunt new buyers toward direct purchases, the process will be exactly as it has gone with the 3/20 changes: a future date for the changes to take effect and a grandfather clause such that only resale contracts purchased after this date would be subject to the newer limitations.

To me this is the only way to accomplish decreasing resale value and keep current resale owners out of court and instead happily in the Parks spending money. I know that based on the written legal word they can do anything short of denying booking your home resort, but I just don't think that it would be done. To me it doesn't make good business sense. JMHO.

Since we only use our DVC points to stay at DVC resorts, I would still happily buy resale and may do so again if the prices drop further since the 3/20 change.

 

[suebeelin]

I wonder what's happened with Norman Girls and her contract?

On my side, we have another hiccup. on 3/28 we passed ROFR. Our deposit was charged on our credit card on 4/2. We email/call/email/email/email and hear nothing from our brokers for 2 weeks.

We wanted to find out if we are grandfathered into the 3/20 deadline but no response. Not even a "we're still waiting for a response from Disney".

So, feeling a bit concerned, I cancel my credit card charge/deposit as the services are not being rendered.

Now they want a certified check. They FINALLY call us back ONLY when money (for them) is at stake. I mean, seriously? I wait 2 weeks and no response, so I figure this whole situation is going awry so I cancel the charge on my credit card.

Anyway, I am so scared of proceeding given all the times we feel like we've been burned here. Any advice?

I am really getting tired of this. I can survive without a DVC membership, although I have a lot of cash making 0.9% interest, and figured, hey, why not just buy something with cash that's decreasing in value for something that might be fun and family oriented. That's why I wanted the DVC membership... b/c my money is doing nothing right now. Anyway. Sigh.

 

[Normangirls]

OP here, with some news: we just passed ROFR!

Rachel at Fidelity helped us broker a deal with the sellers for a credit of $1080 ($10/point for the 108 "missing" points). Disney allowed it to go through without a new submission for ROFR, so we preserved our pre-3/20 status.

We haven't closed, and I am proceeding with caution, but I did see the e-mail from DVC to Rachel confirming our pre-3/20 status. I was waiting until now to post because I keep waiting for things to fall apart, but so far so good.

Thank you to EVERYONE for the good wishes and support and great advice!

 

[jekjones1558]

OP here, with some news: we just passed ROFR!

Rachel at Fidelity helped us broker a deal with the sellers for a credit of $1080 ($10/point for the 108 "missing" points). Disney allowed it to go through without a new submission for ROFR, so we preserved our pre-3/20 status.

We haven't closed, and I am proceeding with caution, but I did see the e-mail from DVC to Rachel confirming our pre-3/20 status. I was waiting until now to post because I keep waiting for things to fall apart, but so far so good.

Thank you to EVERYONE for the good wishes and support and great advice!

What great news! Be sure to post again when everything is final.

 

[ORD2KOA]

op here, with some news: We just passed rofr!

Rachel at fidelity helped us broker a deal with the sellers for a credit of $1080 ($10/point for the 108 "missing" points). Disney allowed it to go through without a new submission for rofr, so we preserved our pre-3/20 status.

We haven't closed, and i am proceeding with caution, but i did see the e-mail from dvc to rachel confirming our pre-3/20 status. I was waiting until now to post because i keep waiting for things to fall apart, but so far so good.

Thank you to everyone for the good wishes and support and great advice!

yay you!!!

 

[Normangirls]

I wonder what's happened with Norman Girls and her contract?

On my side, we have another hiccup. on 3/28 we passed ROFR. Our deposit was charged on our credit card on 4/2. We email/call/email/email/email and hear nothing from our brokers for 2 weeks.

We wanted to find out if we are grandfathered into the 3/20 deadline but no response. Not even a "we're still waiting for a response from Disney".

So, feeling a bit concerned, I cancel my credit card charge/deposit as the services are not being rendered.

Now they want a certified check. They FINALLY call us back ONLY when money (for them) is at stake. I mean, seriously? I wait 2 weeks and no response, so I figure this whole situation is going awry so I cancel the charge on my credit card.

Anyway, I am so scared of proceeding given all the times we feel like we've been burned here. Any advice?

I am really getting tired of this. I can survive without a DVC membership, although I have a lot of cash making 0.9% interest, and figured, hey, why not just buy something with cash that's decreasing in value for something that might be fun and family oriented. That's why I wanted the DVC membership... b/c my money is doing nothing right now. Anyway. Sigh.

Well, this is just ridiculous. I'm so sorry you're going through this.

When they called you, did they say what the hold up was?

 

[Normangirls]

what great news! Be sure to post again when everything is final.

yay you!!!

Thanks!


Happy Easter everyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[mdsd8700]

OP here, with some news: we just passed ROFR!

Rachel at Fidelity helped us broker a deal with the sellers for a credit of $1080 ($10/point for the 108 "missing" points). Disney allowed it to go through without a new submission for ROFR, so we preserved our pre-3/20 status.

We haven't closed, and I am proceeding with caution, but I did see the e-mail from DVC to Rachel confirming our pre-3/20 status. I was waiting until now to post because I keep waiting for things to fall apart, but so far so good.

Thank you to EVERYONE for the good wishes and support and great advice!

Have been reading along to see how things are going. Glad to hear that you have passed ROFR!! Please do let us know when everything is final!

 

[DonDon]

OP here, with some news: we just passed ROFR!

Rachel at Fidelity helped us broker a deal with the sellers for a credit of $1080 ($10/point for the 108 "missing" points). Disney allowed it to go through without a new submission for ROFR, so we preserved our pre-3/20 status.

We haven't closed, and I am proceeding with caution, but I did see the e-mail from DVC to Rachel confirming our pre-3/20 status. I was waiting until now to post because I keep waiting for things to fall apart, but so far so good.

Thank you to EVERYONE for the good wishes and support and great advice!

Like many others here, I've been following your story. Looks like you're going to be ok Don't be too surprise if it takes another3-4 weeks to close. The title company that Fidelity is using is still very backed up. Follow up with phones calls, not e-mail. Hang in there

 

[cel_disney]

So glad to see that things are looking good for you Normangirls!!! Hope you are a member soon!!!

 

[BlackRock]

I would start over; there are plenty of resales out there. I have four contracts and I know what is going on with all my points.

If someone is going to list points for resale; don't you think they would have checked to see what points they had to sell?

BlackRock

 

[Presley]

I would start over; there are plenty of resales out there. I have four contracts and I know what is going on with all my points.

If someone is going to list points for resale; don't you think they would have checked to see what points they had to sell?

BlackRock

I agree with that. I wouldn't want to do business with them.