re:Renting Points Rules

[JimMIA]

How about taking comments/suggestions from the community? Any reason the community has no input? Since this forum is for the benefit of the community, that might make the evolutionary changes a bit more palatable.

Actually, input and discussion of the new rules is the ONLY reason for this thread.

You will see other threads on other DVC forums where the rules are stated, and the thread is locked to prevent discussion in order to focus all discussion in one place. THIS is that place. The ONLY reason for this particular thread is to ENCOURAGE discussion of the rule changes!

*****
In addition to creating a specific thread to facilitate discussion, the Mods have provided an extraordinary amount of explanation of the changes -- much of it repetitious because a tiny minority of posters just want to stir the pot ad nauseum.

Any rational person who wants to understand the changes can certainly find the answers easily here. If they can't understand it, or don't agree, they have to option to go somewhere else to rent their DVC points -- if, in fact, they even own DVC points (some of our best posters on these boards do NOT own DVC).

Or... go start another website and make it into something that adds to the party and develops into a very useful, constructive part of the Disney landscape. You won't be the first, and you probably won't be the last.

 

[Brian Noble]

We will have to agree to disagree about whether that represents a moving target or not and the real proof will ultimately result from the ability of the Rent/Trade Board to continue to remain a viable avenue for DVC rentals. My mickeybar bets it will.

For what it's worth, I don't think the underlying principles are a moving target. And, I think the R/T board will remain viable---and probably more than just viable. But, I suspect in the end that any mechanisms won't quite capture the sense of "community" that they are meant to impose. They might come close, and that might be good enough. We'll see with time, and I hope that they do.

Thought I would save everyone some time.

Off topic, but that course was my favorite class in college (and no, I wasn't a philosophy major). For those who haven't taken it, the general thrust is to explore whether or not we can "know" (or, equivalently, "prove") anything at all regarding things in the natural world. For example, how do you "know" that the next time you step on the floor, it will hold you up? How do you "know" that the lamp you see in the corner is really there, and not some illusion? How do you "know" that the other people you speak with are really people with souls, and not just clever automatons meant to look like people?

The course starts by showing that you really can't know any of this stuff---you have past experience, or personal frames of reference, but not absolute knowledge of the future or the external world; likewise you might know things you personally verified earlier, but they could have changed since you checked them, or your senses befuddled, etc. You then progress through a variety of attempts to refute this position. For example, you try to come up with alternate definitions of the word "know". In the end, though, none of this works.

So far, this was just very frustrating, but in an interesting sort of way. Until, that is, the last lecture. The professor (at Berkeley) who taught the class was Barry Stroud. At the time, he was the guy who "wrote the book" on epistemology---if you were taking the philosophy of knowledge at a reasonably serious university, chances are good that Stroud's book was in your reading list---probably at the top.

So, it was extremely cool when he concluded his course with the following observation. I am paraphrasing here, because it was 20 years ago, but I still remember where I was sitting in the lecture hall when he said it:

So, if you've been following along, you've come to the inescapable conclusion that we don't really "know" anything. We've tried to redefine knowledge, and we've tried a variety of proof techniques, but none of those have actually worked. So, where does that leave us?

In my opinion, that leaves us to conclude that philosophy, as a discipline, must be utterly worthless. Because of course we know things! How else could we get through life? Can you imagine what life would be like if every time you tried to open a door you first had to convince yourself that the doorknob was really there? Ridiculous! So, clearly, philosophy is just dead wrong on this question.

And, this is my line of research; my life's work. To understand why philosophy is so broken as to not be able to make statements about these most elementary of truths.

You could literally hear the brains exploding in the room. The Man in epistemology just openly said what we all had been thinking all along---it was all a bunch of crap. It was very, very cool.

 

[360Joules]

Actually, input and discussion of the new rules is the ONLY reason for this thread.

You will see other threads on other DVC forums where the rules are stated, and the thread is locked to prevent discussion in order to focus all discussion in one place. THIS is that place. The ONLY reason for this particular thread is to ENCOURAGE discussion of the rule changes!

*****
In addition to creating a specific thread to facilitate discussion, the Mods have provided an extraordinary amount of explanation of the changes -- much of it repetitious because a tiny minority of posters just want to stir the pot ad nauseum.

Any rational person who wants to understand the changes can certainly find the answers easily here. If they can't understand it, or don't agree, they have to option to go somewhere else to rent their DVC points -- if, in fact, they even own DVC points (some of our best posters on these boards do NOT own DVC).

Or... go start another website and make it into something that adds to the party and develops into a very useful, constructive part of the Disney landscape. You won't be the first, and you probably won't be the last.

Speaking of " ad nauseum" the advice to rent your points somewhere else has been repeated over and over

and over........

and over.......

the tiny minority...gets it

 

[maburke]

I hope this will not create a lot of posts that are created just to maintain a minimum level of participation. I like to think that people are posting because they have something interesting to say.

It is likely though that there will now be posts that are posted just to post in order to meet the posting requirement. Not sure if this adds to the DIS community.

May I make a suggestion? A great place to post that is very helpful to the community is the availability board. People who are trying to rent points might have exactly this information, and it's helpful to the community of renters.

 

[Chuck S]

May I make a suggestion? A great place to post that is very helpful to the community is the availability board. People who are trying to rent points might have exactly this information, and it's helpful to the community of renters.

This is true, however, once the post with the info is processed, it is deleted from the system. So while it is hepful, it will not show in anyone's posting history. Thus posts on the Availability Board will not be considered toward meeting the R/T Board requirement.

 

[dvcbrad]

While I admittedly ride the fence on this topic (as someone who is able to rent via the Rent/Trade board), it doesn't negatively impact people wanting to rent too much. At the risk of breaking some posting rule I don't know, if you're not looking for more than $10 a pt. there are other avenues available to rent that probably protect you better then the R/T board. David's Rentals for example, last I knew, paid the renter $10/pt.

So, unless you want $11.00 or more, there are options that may be less risky and require less work.

And frankly, use your points!

JWG - good point on the pricing options. As to the 'use your points' comment, though, there are lots of reasons why people may want to rent their points ... not everyone can or wants to just use them. Those reasons can include the desire to do something non-Disney and use the rental to fund that (done it), the desire to use the rental to fund the Disney cruise (done it, and know that some agree and some don't as to that strategy, but that's not the point of this thread or response), financial and/or health constraints (thankfully haven't had to do it), etc. So to say 'use your points' is one of those things that sounds reasonable but for many isn't either desirable or practicable.

 

[JimMIA]

Speaking of " ad nauseum" the advice to rent your points somewhere else has been repeated over and over

and over........

and over.......

the tiny minority...gets it

That's true, but the difference between "rent somewhere else" and many of the pot-stirring comments is that "rent somewhere else" is factual, practical advice.

Instead of wailing about the perceived, hypothetical injustice of it all...check out other options. There are numerous other venues to rent DVC reservations.

 

[360Joules]

That's true, but the difference between "rent somewhere else" and many of the pot-stirring comments is that "rent somewhere else" is factual, practical advice.

Instead of wailing about the perceived, hypothetical injustice of it all...check out other options. There are numerous other venues to rent DVC reservations.

Thanks Jim for letting me know again that there are other venues that rent DVC points..LOL
My beef is that the powers that be need to come up with another way to measure ones contribution to this site
There are many active users that come here multiple times a day, that will be shut out of the R/T board. posting just to get a count up seems dumb to me.

Some folks may have a last minute emergency and have to cancel their reservation but cannot rent the reservation because of a low post count.
If it were me I would want to use all available sites and resources that are out there including this one.

 

[Deb & Bill]

Thanks Jim for letting me know again that there are other venues that rent DVC points..LOL
My beef is that the powers that be need to come up with another way to measure ones contribution to this site
There are many active users that come here multiple times a day, that will be shut out of the R/T board. posting just to get a count up seems dumb to me.

Some folks may have a last minute emergency and have to cancel their reservation but cannot rent the reservation because of a low post count.
If it were me I would want to use all available sites and resources that are out there including this one.

Would you ask E-bay to let you sell your reservation for free? Would you ask Redweek to let you sell your points without paying for membership? The fee for selling your points on the DIS is active posting.

By the way, good post, Jim.

 

[kmsimone]

This is true, however, once the post with the info is processed, it is deleted from the system. So while it is hepful, it will not show in anyone's posting history. Thus posts on the Availability Board will not be considered toward meeting the R/T Board requirement.

I had suggested (in jest) that it would be helpful to know which post count and which do not. Now additional types of post are not counted.

So far I am aware of the following
1. No posts that are "Agree", "Thanks" or "Thank you"
2 No posts to the tech board
3. No posts to the availability board. Thanks for clarifying. I had not known this until today.

Question - how about the threads that are games/dirversions and ask members to add to a chain with a single letter or word.

Some may argue that these are similar in contribution value to the "Agree", "Thanks" or "Thank you" posts, but others may suggest that these have more value.

I think they should count, but becuase some of the rules seem arbitrary, I am not sure how these posts will be counted.

 

[360Joules]

Would you ask E-bay to let you sell your reservation for free? Would you ask Redweek to let you sell your points without paying for membership? The fee for selling your points on the DIS is active posting.

By the way, good post, Jim.

I would rather pay a fee to rent on the DIS...that seems fair to everyone

 

[JWG]

I would rather pay a fee to rent on the DIS...that seems fair to everyone

But then you have several other methods to do that. Including a major DISboards sponsor who, from what I've heard, is very successful renting points. So, you essentially can choose the for fee option and get all DISboard members plus more as your audience.

 

[CarolMN]

I had suggested (in jest) that it would be helpful to know which post count and which do not. Now additional types of post are not counted.

So far I am aware of the following
1. No posts that are "Agree", "Thanks" or "Thank you"
2 No posts to the tech board
3. No posts to the availability board. Thanks for clarifying. I had not known this until today.

Question - how about the threads that are games/dirversions and ask members to add to a chain with a single letter or word.

Some may argue that these are similar in contribution value to the "Agree", "Thanks" or "Thank you" posts, but others may suggest that these have more value.

I think they should count, but becuase some of the rules seem arbitrary, I am not sure how these posts will be counted.

The bottom line is that this is a judgment call by the mods. There is no set formula or hard and fast rules. We aren't going to make any, either.

My advice is to quit worrying about what counts and what doesn't. Just accept the spirit of the requirement. We want to get to know our community members and the only way we can effectively do that is through their posts. As already mentioned, that's the price to use the R/T Board to find customers to rent your points.

Rhetorical questions to ask yourself:
Would I rent from someone with my posting history?
Would I choose someone with only a few posts that are mostly "I agree" or "Test"?

OR

Would I (like most other people) first look for someone who has a reasonable history that I could read to get a sense of that person?


FWIW, I do consider posts on the RRA Board. The posts are removed, but the names of the contributors are listed in each thread. It's a quick search to see if a poster contributes there and IMO, it can make a difference when someone is "close".

 

[shreked]

Chuck
I just don't get it. Doess the DIS R/T board cause more work or cost more to administrate? I kind of see it as a service to DVC owners.I have used the board to rent or transfer small numbers of pts when I was short.

2 posts a week? I use my pts once a year and have been going since 94. I know the ropes. The R/T is what brought me to this site. I don't need to sort through questions about computers at Wall Mart or what is being taught in a school across the country. I can rarely add anything of significance.
I just think you would want to be inclusive rather than exclusive.

Good Luck

 

[CarolMN]

Chuck
I just don't get it. Doess the DIS R/T board cause more work or cost more to administrate? I kind of see it as a service to DVC owners.I have used the board to rent or transfer small numbers of pts when I was short.

Not Chuck, but as one of the R/T mods, I can say that we don't see it as a service to DVC owners. We see the R/T Board as a service to DVC members who are contributing members of the DISboards.

2 posts a week? I use my pts once a year and have been going since 94. I know the ropes. The R/T is what brought me to this site. I don't need to sort through questions about computers at Wall Mart or what is being taught in a school across the country. I can rarely add anything of significance.
I just think you would want to be inclusive rather than exclusive.

Good Luck

Look at it this way:

Why do people want to use the DIS to rent points? Primarily because the DIS is a very large community of Disney lovers/vacationers. And it's free of charge.

In our view, those who contribute to the community should be the first to benefit from it.

It's not about "fair" or "inclusive /exclusive" or the value of "lurkers". Think of the DIS as though it were a shopping mall. The malls welcome the public and even offer events to attract them, but they do not allow individuals to set up a booth and start selling things to those who visit the malls without meeting some criteria.

This is just about who gets to use the vast resources of the DISboards for free to post a thread on the R/T Board. To do so, you need to be a member of the DIS Community - as demonstrated by posting a minimum of 50 meaningful posts. (In February, 2011 those posts will need to be no older than 6 months).

Anyone can reply to an offer posted on the R/T Board if they are registered and logged in.

 

[rcchello]

Since the moderators are very active here and taking flack. I just wanted to say:

THANK YOU FOR ALL THE WORK
WE REALLY APPRECIATE WHAT YOU DO!!!​

PS. I don't care if this post counts or not

 

[CarolMN]

Thank you.

We welcome respectful discussion, even if it reflects opinions different than ours. (Don't really consider it flack, LOL). I am glad so many posters value the DIS.

Happy Thanksgiving!

 

[BWV Dreamin]

Thank you.

We welcome respectful discussion, even if it reflects opinions different than ours. (Don't really consider it flack, LOL). I am glad so many posters value the DIS.

Happy Thanksgiving!

Happy Thanksgiving back atcha!

Another question... although I have enough posts that I am not affected presently, I don't know if I will be posting 50 or more threads in the next 6 months. Is the rule 50 posts per 6 months regardless of past posting numbers? Another words once you meet the criteria, does one have to worry about future post counts?

 

[Chuck S]

Happy Thanksgiving back atcha!

Another question... although I have enough posts that I am not affected presently, I don't know if I will be posting 50 or more threads in the next 6 months. Is the rule 50 posts per 6 months regardless of past posting numbers? Another words once you meet the criteria, does one have to worry about future post counts?

Yes, as will only be checking the last 6 months of posting history. And again, the posts will need to be somewhat dispersed throughout those 6 months, not 50 posts in the last few days.

 

[jekjones1558]

Not Chuck, but as one of the R/T mods, I can say that we don't see it as a service to DVC owners. We see the R/T Board as a service to DVC members who are contributing members of the DISboards.

Look at it this way:

Why do people want to use the DIS to rent points? Primarily because the DIS is a very large community of Disney lovers/vacationers. And it's free of charge.

In our view, those who contribute to the community should be the first to benefit from it.

It's not about "fair" or "inclusive /exclusive" or the value of "lurkers". Think of the DIS as though it were a shopping mall. The malls welcome the public and even offer events to attract them, but they do not allow individuals to set up a booth and start selling things to those who visit the malls without meeting some criteria.

This is just about who gets to use the vast resources of the DISboards for free to post a thread on the R/T Board. To do so, you need to be a member of the DIS Community - as demonstrated by posting a minimum of 50 meaningful posts. (In February, 2011 those posts will need to be no older than 6 months).

Anyone can reply to an offer posted on the R/T Board if they are registered and logged in.

Great post (as usual), Carol! I love the way you are able to clarify an idea without any "edge" to your post. This tone is what makes the DIS my favorite forum site on the web.