re:Renting Points Rules

Stepping back a bit, it does seem to me that the DIS always has projected a bit of a mixed message regarding rentals. It's as though The Powers That Be do not want to be involved in anything that approaches "mere commerce"---for example, the various rules to try to eliminate any possibility of spec renting, or the users who "are only here to rent." There also seems to be a desire to make sure rentals "go well".

The problem is that actually coming up with a set of mechanisms that enforces these principles has proven to be exceedingly difficult. Ultimately, I suspect that the "six month rule" will be found insufficient as well, and some new rule will take its place. Worse, in the midst of all of this, David's service (which used to be practically a Dirty Word on DISboards) is now a sponsor, further muddying the waters.

From where I sit, I think it would be better if the DIS administration would accept that, yes, renting is ultimately "commerce" at some level, and trying to avoid that is impossible. Once you reach that conclusion, you either decide to accept that some people will be there only to benefit, or you just forbid it entirely, and let other sites (TUG, Redweek, By Request, MRN, etc.) take over the task of establishing a marketplace.

But, it's not my site, so if The Powers That Be want to try to continue to walk the line, more power to them.
 
Anyone who takes a minute to actually review the posts of some posters on this thread is probably :lmao:!

Although...it does help explain the intensity and desire to keep the thread alive and boost the post count.

Perfect example of quality being a meaningful criteria.
 
My posts are "lumpy"... I posted very often prior to the 2007Panama Canal Cruise... and again in 2009/2010 when I was shopping for a DVC on the resale market.

In between I post, but not alot.

While I am not an "every day" poster, I am an everyday lurker and podcast listener. And while I have no immediate plans to rent my points, is there a way to tell if I already meet the 50 post limit? Is the 6 months a rolling six months?

If it is a rolling 6 months, maybe they should soften the count so anyone with over some amount of posts since inception (say 500 or 1000 or 2000) need not satisfy the 50 post limit... Think of a long time DISer that gets ill or something... so they dont post for a while... then realize they have to rent their DVC points. Should they be shut out of the board?

While I totally get why the 50 post limit is being instituted, their should be an additional Dis-Veteran exception.

My 2 cents.
 
While I am not an "every day" poster, I am an everyday lurker and podcast listener. And while I have no immediate plans to rent my points, is there a way to tell if I already meet the 50 post limit? Is the 6 months a rolling six months?

I'm in the exact same boat only with a significantly smaller number of posts. My first introduction to DVC was through the rent/trade board and I've been mostly a lurker since. I prefer to do forum searches rather than opening new threads to ask questions and most of the time I find what I need. I'm not a "me too" or "I agree" person because I like what I post to count. I've recommended the disboard to numerous people and I've used it's sponsors. All in all, I consider myself a member of this community but my posting history doesn't support it.
 

My posts are "lumpy"... I posted very often prior to the 2007Panama Canal Cruise... and again in 2009/2010 when I was shopping for a DVC on the resale market.

In between I post, but not alot.

While I am not an "every day" poster, I am an everyday lurker and podcast listener. And while I have no immediate plans to rent my points, is there a way to tell if I already meet the 50 post limit? Is the 6 months a rolling six months?

If it is a rolling 6 months, maybe they should soften the count so anyone with over some amount of posts since inception (say 500 or 1000 or 2000) need not satisfy the 50 post limit... Think of a long time DISer that gets ill or something... so they dont post for a while... then realize they have to rent their DVC points. Should they be shut out of the board?

While I totally get why the 50 post limit is being instituted, their should be an additional Dis-Veteran exception.

My 2 cents.

Remember, the 6 month requirement doesn't start until February 1, 2011.

However, the way to tell is to use the board search function. Pull up your posts (not threads) for the last 6 months, less any Rent/Trade posts and posts on the "Test" sub-board of the Tech board.

And hopefully those posts are fairly well spaced out over several of those 6 months, as we realize people may be away on vacations or have family situations from time to time, and unable to post every single month. But we do will be looking to see a history that shows consistency versus a large posting blitz to make the minimum requirement.
 
Remember, the 6 month requirement doesn't start until February 1, 2011.

However, the way to tell is to use the board search function. Pull up your posts (not threads) for the last 6 months, less any Rent/Trade posts and posts on the "Test" sub-board of the Tech board.

And hopefully those posts are fairly well spaced out over several of those 6 months, as we realize people may be away on vacations or have family situations from time to time, and unable to post every single month. But we do will be looking to see a history that shows consistency versus a large posting blitz to make the minimum requirement.

I have 89 posts! Whoo hoo!

Er, make that 90.
 
Honestly-I am all for the new rules. It makes me feel a lot better as a renter. I am always a bit hesitant responding to a 1st time poster renting points. And I know that some people find themselves in a situation they have never been in-with points to rent for the first time-but I still think the new rules are fair.

JHMO:confused3
 
I too have been a member of the boards for a number of years. I do not post a lot lately but probably review the DVC area at least 3 to 4 times a week. I do not frequent Disney World or cruise the number of times that other people do in a year, therefore my need to ask questions and research is much less then many. I also find that many people's questions are answered almost immediately by those that seem to be on these boards a lot so a response to assist someone is often not necessary. In addition I have at times taken part in some of the "heated" DVC discussions only to have retreated because of the way some of the disboard members react and respond to other's opinions. I am generally not a bit fan of controversy.

Despite being a long time loyal user of the disboards and at times a poster, I do find it rather disappointing that if I were to need to rent in the future I would be penalized for not being verbally active.

Thanks for listening/reading.

maminnie
 
Honestly-I am all for the new rules. It makes me feel a lot better as a renter. I am always a bit hesitant responding to a 1st time poster renting points. And I know that some people find themselves in a situation they have never been in-with points to rent for the first time-but I still think the new rules are fair.

JHMO:confused3

Remember, though, that as the owner renting out your points, you have to start somwhere. I remember my first rental ... I had had a far amount of communication with him prior to his deciding to rent, and he then asked about references. I was honest and explained to him that this was my first time doing so, and that was exactly what he said ... "well, you've gotta start somewhere". By that time, we had already established some trust with each other, he had reviewed a draft of my contract, etc. The rental went perfectly - he was happy, I was happy. I hadn't posted much at that time, still don't, but like I said in another thread, I treated him honestly, communicated, and probably worked more on that rental to earn his trust than most people do who are multi-posters, multi-renters.
 
Remember, though, that as the owner renting out your points, you have to start somwhere. ....

That's why you need to post those 50 messages. The person renting your reservation already has an idea of who you are because of your posts. They know where you stay, your opinion of your home resort or other favorite place to stay, where you like to dine at WDW or maybe even offsite, what your favorite attractions are....
 
Stepping back a bit, it does seem to me that the DIS always has projected a bit of a mixed message regarding rentals. It's as though The Powers That Be do not want to be involved in anything that approaches "mere commerce"---for example, the various rules to try to eliminate any possibility of spec renting, or the users who "are only here to rent." There also seems to be a desire to make sure rentals "go well".

The problem is that actually coming up with a set of mechanisms that enforces these principles has proven to be exceedingly difficult. Ultimately, I suspect that the "six month rule" will be found insufficient as well, and some new rule will take its place. Worse, in the midst of all of this, David's service (which used to be practically a Dirty Word on DISboards) is now a sponsor, further muddying the waters.

From where I sit, I think it would be better if the DIS administration would accept that, yes, renting is ultimately "commerce" at some level, and trying to avoid that is impossible. Once you reach that conclusion, you either decide to accept that some people will be there only to benefit, or you just forbid it entirely, and let other sites (TUG, Redweek, By Request, MRN, etc.) take over the task of establishing a marketplace.

But, it's not my site, so if The Powers That Be want to try to continue to walk the line, more power to them.

"Muddying the waters" Id say so!! Its pretty obvious whats going on..Its all about $$
 
"Muddying the waters" Id say so!! Its pretty obvious whats going on..Its all about $$

If it's all about money, then why don't they just charge a fee to post to the RTB?

I don't use this site to rent points. As a frequent poster, it would be too self serving so you will be hard pressed to find a "for rent" post by me

How hard is it to share an opinion, express a feeling or share an experience? So you don't have carte Blanche to a piece of this site that is reserved for those that can figure out how to contribute to the community twice a week?
 
"Muddying the waters" Id say so!! Its pretty obvious whats going on..Its all about $$

We are stopping no one from renting their points, they simply will not be allowed to use the DIS to do so without meeting our posting requirements. If they are unwilling to do so, they are always free to seek out other rental venues, and there are lots of them available. Some of them do charge service fees.

If it were "all about the $$" it would be pretty simple to restrict all access the R/T Board so it could be viewed by only people that paid specific fees for that access. All we are asking is that people post, and create a verifiable history on our boards, to be able to offer their points.

Again, there have been people over the years post several hundered posts, ALL of them on the Rent/Trade board. It was never the intent of the DIS to provide a rental outlet for the world wide web, but to provide a place where regular posters here could exchange their points when they had extra, or had to cancel a reservation last minute.
 

Yes Really..let me clarify my post..ive been a "lurker" long enuff to know that mr Noble is a well respected member of this community. He brought up some very valid points, that were never addressed by a " mod" .

Davids points rental service pays this site to advertise.

This new policy will steer alot of new business in his direction, thus increasing revenue to the owners of this site.

Liferbabe...i think they should charge a fee to advertise, thats a great idea, fair to everyone involved.
 
For a bunch of lurkers who just can't find the time to post and who don't like to repeat the same thing someone else just posted, you are doing a pretty good job. ;)
 
Stepping back a bit, it does seem to me that the DIS always has projected a bit of a mixed message regarding rentals. It's as though The Powers That Be do not want to be involved in anything that approaches "mere commerce"---for example, the various rules to try to eliminate any possibility of spec renting, or the users who "are only here to rent." There also seems to be a desire to make sure rentals "go well".

The DIS DVC Rent/Trade Board was originally established as an opportunity for members of the DIS Community to rent excess points. It was never intended as an outlet for those seeking to benefit from renting speculative reservations. At one time Pete even proposed making the Rent/Trade Board a commercial "eBay" type of enterprise but was met by a resounding opposing outcry from those who liked it just as it was. For a number of years all registered users of the DIS were allowed to offer to rent existing reservations or to rent their points without regard to any timeline - contradicting the "the DIS has always projected a bit of a mixed message regarding rentals" comment, which has no basis at all.

In Spring 2007, on the same day MS began accepting AKV reservations from new owners, about 6 reservations for early December were offered for rent on the Rent/Trade Board - confirming the suspicion that some were using the board to rent reservations made without any expectation of personal use. While speculative rental is perfectly acceptable and specifically allowed by DVC, it did not fit with the true reason our Rent/Trade Board was established and a policy was created to allow reservations for rent posted only within 30 days of arrival when the points would already be compromised by the Holding Account. Some met this policy with creative means of bypassing the policy in an attempt to circumvent the intent of the board. We are aware that some of the reservations still offered for rent at this time are speculative and are we willing to accept that as long as they are posted within 30 days of arrival.

Since the mission of the Rent/Trade Board is to allow for DIS Community members to rent excess points, we have attempted to define what constitutes a DIS Community member based on their online participation in discussions within the Community. This began in July with the 6 months of registration and minimum of 50 contributory non-Rent/Trade posts and will be expanded to 50 contributory posts within 6 months for all registered users in February. While some here have taken the position that "they" are being penalized for not being more active, we look at it as those who actively participate in our discussion forums are being rewarded with the opportunity to rent points they otherwise are unable to personally use themselves. (Is the glass half empty or half full? Is the ability to post on a privately owned website a right or a privilege?)

As for making rentals "go well", we truly hope that they do "go well" and the few that did not might have had a different outcome if the current policies been in place at the time.

The problem is that actually coming up with a set of mechanisms that enforces these principles has proven to be exceedingly difficult. Ultimately, I suspect that the "six month rule" will be found insufficient as well, and some new rule will take its place. Worse, in the midst of all of this, David's service (which used to be practically a Dirty Word on DISboards) is now a sponsor, further muddying the waters.

Other than some discussion about implemetation among the moderators, creating policies to better define the intent of the Rent/Trade Board has not been difficult at all. It has certainly been an evolution over the past few years, but not difficult. I'm not sure where the "proven to be exceedingly difficult" comment comes from , but certainly not from the Rent/Trade Moderators. In addition, David has created a DVC rental service consistent with the original intent of the Rent/Trade Board and has been a very welcome addition to the family of DIS advertisers.

From where I sit, I think it would be better if the DIS administration would accept that, yes, renting is ultimately "commerce" at some level, and trying to avoid that is impossible. Once you reach that conclusion, you either decide to accept that some people will be there only to benefit, or you just forbid it entirely, and let other sites (TUG, Redweek, By Request, MRN, etc.) take over the task of establishing a marketplace.

But, it's not my site, so if The Powers That Be want to try to continue to walk the line, more power to them.

The internet is a big place and there has always been an opportunity for rental opportunities on other sites. As for "establishing a marketplace", we are confident that we have our own little niche where active members of our own DIS Community can benefit when they have points or reservations they are otherwise unable to use and renters can find benefit from those rentals right here on the DIS. We've been walking the line with DVC rentals for over 12 years now and are pretty secure with our position among the other rental opportunities on the internet.

Thanks for the vote of confidence.
 
I appreciate the efforts that are being made with the new rules. While it is no guarantee of a safe transaction it will give you insight into the person you are considering renting from.

While I have never rented points, I may in the future. I may use the R/T board and I may go with Davids service. Which one I use will depend on pricing and the availability on the R/T boards of members that I feel comfortable with. I have been on these boards for 6 years and their are people that I wouldn't question handing my money over to. The reason is that they have been active members for years. I have even had the pleasure of meeting various members from these boards at WDW, HHI, and here in the DFW metroplex. :)
 
I'm not sure where the "proven to be exceedingly difficult" comment comes from , but certainly not from the Rent/Trade Moderators.
It didn't "come from" anywhere, it's an observation. Given the fact that the rules have changed relatively frequently in recent times (the elimination of reservations wanted, and two different standards for posting points for rent) it would seem to me that you have not found it straightforward to come up with a set of mechanisms that enforces the principles you desire.

As I said, trying to walk the line that DIS seems to want to walk is a challenge, because at its core, renting reservations is commerce, not community. Trying to paper over the former with the patina of the latter doesn't change this fact. But, again, not my football.
 



















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