Re-framing the Conversation

[dfb]

What is it exactly that this technology will allow them to do? Nobody's been able to answer that yet. Yes, I understand that they'll know where I spend my money, how I spend my time, how frequently I pee, etc., but will they be able to track where I DON"T spend my time and money? Will this really matter? With a price tag of $1.5 Billion dollars, how are they going to use this technology in a way that'll push Disney lightyears ahead of the competition?

I wish Disney would go back to focusing on the customer's vacation experience. While NFL is nice, it's really not "all that and a bag of chips." I am curious about the 7DMT, but other than that, what's been gained for all the years invested? Dumbo and Barnstormer already existed, there's a new kiddie Little Mermaid ride, and some places to eat and shop. Oh yes, and Storybook Circus, which is another iteration of video games, like the new interactive queues at HM, Pooh, TT, and the end of SE. All over the Disney parks, buildings stand empty. Experiences have been closed, reopening on the cheap, if at all. Look at how much of FutureWorld in Epcot is EMPTY. NOTHING. Yet $1.5 billion (with more to be spent, if the way things now work is any indication) spent on MM+ and FP+? I keep hearing about the "new technology" putting Disney on the forefront for years to come. HOW? WHAT are the applications of this new technology (other than to mess up many peoples' vacations right now)?

Basically! Technology Good! What disney does with technology...Good or Bad??? This type of technology in the long term will reduce cost - good for Disney maybe good for guest. This technology has alot of flexibilty in it's operational use...maybe good for Disney maybe good for guest???

I wish I were creative enough to give good examples of how it can enhance your visit but I'll leave that to the imagineers. I will use an example of a previous technology.

In the 80's micro computers made it into the home. At first the cost was prohibitive for most to get. The software available too limited to be of any benefit to most people. I used to keep a paper journal of my finances. Now I use speadsheet like software for not only budgets and finances but in many facets of my professional and personal life. I don't think you'll get too many people to return to paper journals.

Honestly I loved FP legacy and currently not a huge fan of FP+ but I do know it does have great potential whatever it may or may not result in. I hope it evolves into something amazing. That's why I don't plan on visiting the parks until 2015. Hopefully it will evolve a little by then!

 

[Mkrop]

I guess that's just a matter of perception and whether you are talking strictly about RIDES or including park experiences.

I went in October 2012 (last trip before that was September 2010), April 2013, September 2013, and will be there again in September 2014. During each of those trips I got to experience new things (some just new to me and some new to WDW) including the opening of New Fantasyland (new ride, 2 new M&G experiences, and a new restaurant), newly themed TT, updated Star Tours, introduction of Starbucks in the parks (meant nothing to me but my cousin...first timer...LOVED this), food kiosks at Flower and Garden Festival (an event that was also new to me), interactive queue at Haunted Mansion, Tangled bathroom areas, projection show on the castle, the Jack Sparrow thing at DHS, and when we go this September we will get to see the Mine Train and the new parade at MK. They are introducing new fireworks to Star Wars Weekend (which I won't get to experience but it's also a new thing) and last year had that Villains night at DHS. They have special event nights throughout the year. Sitting on their laurels? I don't think so. You may see it differently.

There are SO MANY things to do that (as people say over and over and over again on these boards) you can't do it all in one trip. Who else has that? They continue to add new things and every single trip I am able to experience new things. Universal feels tired to me and they are no where near approaching the amount of what Disney has to offer its customers. Now...whether you like or appreciate all that Disney has to offer...that I can't speak to. But just because these things don't mean anything to you or aren't what YOU want them to put in the parks...doesn't equate to them sitting on their laurels in my opinion.

Which I read was a complete diaster...too many people and traffic snarled for hours and people stuck in buses, missing park time and ADRs.

I think that people really underestimate the importance of technology and the role it plays in the success or failure of future endeavors. In years to come...Disney will be so far ahead of everyone else with what their technology will allow them to do and they will continue to advance and build upon the technology already in place to create amazing experiences. I would not want to be Disney's competition...trying to play catch up when that happens.

Technology is only great if it works...so far there are enough bugs in this system that someone should call Raid

 

[Planogirl]

Well, they have those really loud pool games constantly going on.

I don't think the deluxes are much more interesting than the mods or values (with the exception of AKL). The best part of most of them is the easier access....to the parks.

I was just thinking about AKL when I left out the deluxes. We once stayed at AKL for several nights and only visited a Disney park one day. I won't mention what we did the other days but the point is that we sought out the AKL as a destination of its own. I don't know that I would do that with the other resorts. (Maybe Fort Wilderness..)

I agree that only time will tell. But any business that ignores their loyal fan base in pursuit of a new golden goose takes a risk.

Back to that word of mouth discussion IMO. Good word of mouth can really sell something and I would bet that the loyal fan base provides way more of that than anyone else. I can only go by those I know but these people have been to WDW and they enjoyed it but they never talk about it or go back. I suspect that MOST newbies will be like that.

Look at the number of people who complain that they don't get towel animals from Mousekeeping. Some people go so far as to say that one, insignificant seeming little factor puts a huge damper on their trip. If one person gets something, even that little, everyone is disappointed if they don't get them as well.

In several trips, we've gotten one towel animal. One! If I cared about such things, I imagine that it would be something that I'd rant about and I might even claim that my trip was ruined. I've seen such comments.

I agree. The technology of MM+ has such great potential to really enhance the guest visit. Unfortunately for many it's introduction has been too restrictive and too faulty, therefore many peolpe feel it's only another money making tactic with no guest benefit.

I feel Disney has done a poor job in presenting this technology. I hope they evolve with the necessary changes to make it a real enhancement to visitors.

I hope that you're right. It's ugly to me right now.

 

[Amy&Dan]

Very interesting thread with so many good and valid points made on both sides.

I will say that having been to Disneyland post billion dollar redo of DCA I can vouch for what a billion dollar overhaul of a park will do for you. A whole new land with more than one ride, one of which is so incredible it blew this long time visitor and frequent AP Disneyland holder away and then some. I mean most of the park has been revamped, new restaurants, theme, shops, land, rides, nighttime show, turnstiles, you name it. And it was a pain while they did it but I haven't seen one person on any message board including this one who has been there before and after, and who went while it was happening not say it was worth everything they did. And DL tickets went up in price and you know what, I am okay with that because I feel like I got something for that increased price.

Now I will visit WDW for the first time in two years. I'll have a new mine train to ride and I am pretty excited about it. But fp+ and whatever else they have rolled into this 1.5 billion dollar investment isn't likely to have the same impact on me that all the new things they did out in California and the new FL did/will do. Its been so long since I've been to MK when it hasn't been torn up and now I found out the hub will be under construction when we are there. Which from what I've seen will be a huge improvement but still kind of stinks because I was looking forward to seeing MK without a bunch of walls up. Still I am always happy when they spend money on stuff inside the parks and improvements and new things. I do love the new FL at MK, but I do have to say it pales to Cars Land at DCA. And guess what, the billion they spent in CA appeals to first time guests, long time guests, off and onsite guests, locals and everybody else because they did it right. Like they should have done years ago. But didn't for many reasons, some justified some because they were cheap and stupid and forgot Disney parks shouldn't look like crappy six flags type parks. But they made it right.

I just think that as someone who has done just under 40 trips in 11 years, split almost evenly between DL and WDW, I will be comparing these two, billion dollar investments and my magic band and three fp's a day won't come out the winner. But if some of you are right, the long term pay off may be worth it. Or not. I guess we'll just have to see.

I also have to say, that I am all for Disney being the first one to the "teched up" table. But I'd be more excited if I thought they could handle the tech aspect of this given that half the time I can't even get their website to work! In December it took me an hour to get the information I needed to price out three resort alternatives for our upcoming trip. It kept messing up and that is nothing new. I've had ADR's go missing more times than I can count on their crappy website. That same day, it took not even a fourth of that time to order a large number of Christmas presents on Amazon on my phone. It was so ridiculously easy following my still fresh Disney website experience I couldn't help but laugh. Apples to oranges comparison but still, if they can't get a website that works, can't train their phone cm's to offer consistent and accurate answers to simple questions, why am I supposed to be excited about this magic band thing and fp+?

 

[redrosesix]

I think that people really underestimate the importance of technology and the role it plays in the success or failure of future endeavors. In years to come...Disney will be so far ahead of everyone else with what their technology will allow them to do and they will continue to advance and build upon the technology already in place to create amazing experiences. I would not want to be Disney's competition...trying to play catch up when that happens.

In years to come the technology will be... obsolete. And unfortunately we'll probably be having this discussion all over again. I think it needs to go back to the OP -- how does WDW want to be perceived, how do they want to be talked about, what are they really offering to their guests.

JMHO, but with MM+ at least $1 billion over budget it should have been working properly by now...but it's not. And the execs have already hinted that it could go as high as $2 billion. I don't begrudge them their initial plan to spend $500 million on the new system, if it had worked and had been completed on time.

It's that extra amount -- the $1 billion to $1.5 billion over budget -- that is going to be cutting into future plans. It was more than enough to pay for everything in DCA, as stated below...

Very interesting thread with so many good and valid points made on both sides.

I will say that having been to Disneyland post billion dollar redo of DCA I can vouch for what a billion dollar overhaul of a park will do for you. A whole new land. A new ride/land that is magnificent in a way that blew this long time visitor and frequent AP Disneyland holder away and then some.

Now I will visit WDW for the first time in two years. I'll have a new mine train to ride and I am pretty excited about it. But fp+ and whatever else they have rolled into this 1.5 billion dollar investment isn't likely to have the same impact on me that all the new things they did out in California did. I still half wonder if we'll change gears and head to DL instead but I love WDW and don't want to throw in the towel until I try it out for myself.

I just think that as someone who has done just under 40 trips in 11 years, split almost evenly between DL and WDW, I will be comparing these two, billion dollar investments and my magic band and three fp's a day won't come out the winner.

I also have to say, that I am all for Disney being the first one to the "teched up" table. But I'd be more excited if I thought they could handle the tech aspect of this given that half the time I can't even get their website to work. In December it took me an hour to get the information I needed to price out three resort alternatives for our upcoming trip. It kept messing up and that is nothing new. I've had ADR's go missing more times than I can count on their crappy website. That same day, it took not even a fourth of that time to order a large number of Christmas presents on Amazon on my phone. It was so ridiculously easy following my still fresh Disney website experience I couldn't help but laugh. Apples to oranges comparison but still, if they can't get a website that works, can't train their phone cm's to offer consistent and accurate answers to simple questions, why am I supposed to be excited about this magic band thing and fp+?

great post

 

[Flora Fan]

We'll, I've just read all 6 pages of this thread and enjoyed it immensely.

Disney may be making mistakes or "hitting it out of the park". I don't really know which is true. All I know is that when I go to WDW I like the way it makes me feel. I can act like a child if I want to and I can act like an adult when I want to. I love listening to children laughing and playing. And I like never having to think about the outside world while I'm there. I like that I still get excited about planning trips and it makes me sad to leave. In the end I will continue to frequent Disney for these reasons.

Should Disney reframe things. I believe so. Change is important. But I believe that if Disney can keep in mind the original reasons Walt built DL, "a place for children and parents to play together", perhaps they can whether any storm.

I hope this wasn't off topic...please forgive me if it was.

 

[catra121]

Which I read was a complete diaster...too many people and traffic snarled for hours and people stuck in buses, missing park time and ADRs.



Technology is only great if it works...so far there are enough bugs in this system that someone should call Raid

Villains night at DHS...it was SO successful that it was a disaster...I'm still blown away by that. Worst case scenario would have been if they invested in it and NO ONE came. They had the opposite happen...EVERYONE came (well...not everyone...but so many that it might as well have been). I don't know that I would consider that a failure in the same sense you do...but they obviously were unprepared for how well received it was by guests. If they had even begun to guess at its success...they would have charged extra for it and made TONS of money on it.

 

[catra121]

We'll, I've just read all 6 pages of this thread and enjoyed it immensely.

Disney may be making mistakes or "hitting it out of the park". I don't really know which is true. All I know is that when I go to WDW I like the way it makes me feel. I can act like a child if I want to and I can act like an adult when I want to. I love listening to children laughing and playing. And I like never having to think about the outside world while I'm there. I like that I still get excited about planning trips and it makes me sad to leave. In the end I will continue to frequent Disney for these reasons.

Should Disney reframe things. I believe so. Change is important. But I believe that if Disney can keep in mind the original reasons Walt built DL, "a place for children and parents to play together", perhaps they can whether any storm.

I hope this wasn't off topic...please forgive me if it was.

I feel the same way you do about the parks. I love just BEING in WDW...I love the way I feel...it makes me incredibly happy to be there. Disney World is my ultimate happy place.

 

[Mkrop]

Villains night at DHS...it was SO successful that it was a disaster...I'm still blown away by that. Worst case scenario would have been if they invested in it and NO ONE came. They had the opposite happen...EVERYONE came (well...not everyone...but so many that it might as well have been). I don't know that I would consider that a failure in the same sense you do...but they obviously were unprepared for how well received it was by guests. If they had even begun to guess at its success...they would have charged extra for it and made TONS of money on it.

It was only successful if the guests that were there had a good time and it certainly wasnt successful for those guests who were stuck in a traffic nightmare who vowed never to return to WDW again

 

[carrie1626]

Getting into the mindset of a girl seems to play a large part, too. Makeovers, Princess character meals.
Having yourself made over at BBB, getting the Princess' autographs and pictures, these are all things that most girls will remember very fondly and when they are grown with families of their own where do they want to take them-WDW(DL).
We've seem a very slow progression for boys with pirate themed rooms and a Pirate party but boy or boy (pun) the guys are seriously overlooked.

Repeat guests are key. My husband's niece, husband and 2 boys went for the first time in NOV 2013. She LOVED it so much she wants to go back!!!!!!! She went on and on about the MB's. I never said one thing about them good or bad and their vacation was before mine so I had no experience with them to tell about anyway.
The guys had a good time, too. But I figure if she really, really wants to do it again, they will

 

[catra121]

What is it exactly that this technology will allow them to do? Nobody's been able to answer that yet. Yes, I understand that they'll know where I spend my money, how I spend my time, how frequently I pee, etc., but will they be able to track where I DON"T spend my time and money? Will this really matter? With a price tag of $1.5 Billion dollars, how are they going to use this technology in a way that'll push Disney lightyears ahead of the competition?

I wish Disney would go back to focusing on the customer's vacation experience. While NFL is nice, it's really not "all that and a bag of chips." I am curious about the 7DMT, but other than that, what's been gained for all the years invested? Dumbo and Barnstormer already existed, there's a new kiddie Little Mermaid ride, and some places to eat and shop. Oh yes, and Storybook Circus, which is another iteration of video games, like the new interactive queues at HM, Pooh, TT, and the end of SE. All over the Disney parks, buildings stand empty. Experiences have been closed, reopening on the cheap, if at all. Look at how much of FutureWorld in Epcot is EMPTY. NOTHING. Yet $1.5 billion (with more to be spent, if the way things now work is any indication) spent on MM+ and FP+? I keep hearing about the "new technology" putting Disney on the forefront for years to come. HOW? WHAT are the applications of this new technology (other than to mess up many peoples' vacations right now)?

The thing about technology and the way it advances is that you often can't see where it's going to take you. Someone said that in years to come this technology will become obsolete...but all future technology is built upon what we had before.

Anyone here ever watch Seinfeld? It wouldn't be nearly as funny if any of those people had...you know...cell phones. 30 years ago who would have imagined what we can do now with our phones. The writers of Star Trek I guess...Back to the Future sure got it wrong in the sense that we don't have FAX machines in every room of the house (or maybe that's just me?)...but seriously...30 years ago the technology we have now would have been considered science fiction.

I know at work...every new process or use of technology builds upon the previous thing. I've been with the company almost 13 years and the stuff we can do now is really amazing...but ALL of the technology and new processes were met with just as much resistance as I see with regards to MM+. There are always things you have to work through (bugs, things not going exactly as planned, etc) but when the dust settles you are better off. And the things we roll out now would not be possible without all those things that we got before. Should we just have shrugged our shoulders when we ran into road blocks and said, "It's too hard. Let's just forget about it."

Sat in a seasonal meeting the other day and had to watch a video where they showed clips of some of the top company executives talking about things that we are rolling out over the next few years. The quote that really stuck with me (and that seems to sum up what I am seeing with regards to Disney): "The people who think they can change the world...are the ones who do."

 

[Cinderella's slipper]

Managing expectations has been Disney's real problem through this whole thing.

In short, if I were in charge, I'd announce the theme for the coming year would be "Expect the Unexpected". And I'd make sure that every cast member at every park or restaurant or hotel were empowered to make magic happen as they see fit. I bet it would be a heck of a thing.

What a great way for Disney to add some to their guests vacations!!

 

[Amy&Dan]

I feel the same way you do about the parks. I love just BEING in WDW...I love the way I feel...it makes me incredibly happy to be there. Disney World is my ultimate happy place.

I think most of us on this thread feel that same way. I know I sure do. Which is why I am a bit wary.

I don't want to wait for rides that formerly were little to no wait that now are quite the opposite because now they have fp. I don't want Imagineering projects which we can all probably agree is the backbone of Disney park success to be on hold because all of this new technology cost so much they don't have the funds available to make it happen.

I seriously cannot stress enough how amazing the changes out in California are. And if what I am reading is right, cost less than what they are doing in WDW just with the magic bands/fp+ stuff, not including the FL expansion. Or is the FL expansion part of this 2 billion dollar price tag?

I have done 39 trips plus a Disney Cruise in the past eleven years. So clearly I like me some Disney lol. And I am in no way shape or form saying Disney doesn't know what they are doing and these changes in WDW are a total failure with no benefit or gain to the guest. I just kind of feel like there has been a shift in priorities and wonder how my business and satisfaction will be affected by it.

I have to say during the DCA changes when you literally didn't have anything from the front entrance to the back of the park that didn't have walls and construction going on, it was hard to not feel a sense of gloom. But it all worked out and I hope this does too.

 

[catra121]

It was only successful if the guests that were there had a good time and it certainly wasnt successful for those guests who were stuck in a traffic nightmare who vowed never to return to WDW again

Sorry that I see it differently...but many many many people go to Disney during busy periods and come back saying the same thing. People go over Christmas or Spring Break and come back saying it's insane, they don't know how any one could enjoy that experience. I don't think Disney would call its busy seasons disasters.

 

[redrosesix]

I think most of us on this thread feel that same way. I know I sure do. Which is why I am a bit wary.

I don't want to wait for rides that formerly were little to no wait that now are quite the opposite because now they have fp. I don't want Imagineering projects which we can all probably agree is the backbone of Disney park success to be on hold because all of this new technology cost so much they don't have the funds available to make it happen.

I seriously cannot stress enough how amazing the changes out in California are. And if what I am reading is right, cost less than what they are doing in WDW just with the magic bands/fp+ stuff, not including the FL expansion. Or is the FL expansion part of this 2 billion dollar price tag?

I have done 39 trips plus a Disney Cruise in the past eleven years. So clearly I like me some Disney lol. And I am in no way shape or form saying Disney doesn't know what they are doing and these changes in WDW are a total failure with no benefit or gain to the guest. I just kind of feel like there has been a shift in priorities and wonder how my business and satisfaction will be affected by it.

I have to say during the DCA changes when you literally didn't have anything from the front entrance to the back of the park that didn't have walls and construction going on, it was hard to not feel a sense of gloom. But it all worked out and I hope this does too.

The $1.5-$2 billion price tag is for MM+, which includes MBs, FP+, MDE and a bunch of other things to use with the new system including resort room door locks ($17 million) and POS scanners. It doesnt include any construction, just IT stuff.

Not sure how much they spent on new FL but I think we would all be surprised at how much less it cost than MM+

 

[Amy&Dan]

The $1.5-$2 billion price tag is for MM+, which includes MBs, FP+, MDE and a bunch of other things to use with the new system including resort room door locks ($17 million) and POS scanners. It doesnt include any construction, just IT stuff.

Not sure how much they spent on new FL but I think we would all be surprised at how much less it cost than MM+

I figured it had to be separate.

And I am sure it is way less. Because the Seven Dwarves Mine Train and the rest of FL is nowhere near what they did at DCA and I am pretty sure the total price tag on all of that was a billion.

I so wish that in addition to the new FL expansion and rides, they would have spent some money in Future World. Maybe even instead of FL from my standpoint because I think they need to do something in that part of Epcot like about a decade ago lol.