Rapists Targeting Drunk Women...not rape?

[butterscotchcollins]

How about if someone's been drinking and is intoxicated to any degree, be a gentleman and have the decency and common sense to pick a different place and time. Then you don't have to worry about "someone withdrawing consent"

 

[Hikergirl]

How about if someone's been drinking and is intoxicated to any degree, be a gentleman and have the decency and common sense to pick a different place and time. Then you don't have to worry about "someone withdrawing consent"

That goes for the women too right? Or are drunk sexually aggressive women not considered "ungentlemanly"?

 

[butterscotchcollins]

That goes for the women too right? Or are drunk sexually aggressive women not considered "ungentlemanly"?

Absolutely. Let me rephrase:

How about if someone's been drinking and is intoxicated to any degree, be a considerate human being and have the decency and common sense to pick a different place and time. Also, the ONLY form of absolute consent is a verbal, sober, enthusiastic "yes." If they are drunk or incapacitated, err on the side of caution. And friendly reminder in case you're still not sure, if they are asleep, they cannot consent. If they are under the legal age, they cannot consent. It's not rocket science. People looking for the legal "loopholes" in my eyes are people who have probably done something wrong and don't want to cop to it.

 

[dominiondad]

If somebody gets my daughter drunk and takes advantage of her without being charged with rape, can I get drunk, beat him with a bat, and not get charged with murder? Seems only fair.

 

[Hikergirl]

Absolutely. Let me rephrase:

How about if someone's been drinking and is intoxicated to any degree, be a considerate human being and have the decency and common sense to pick a different place and time. Also, the ONLY form of absolute consent is a verbal, sober, enthusiastic "yes." If they are drunk or incapacitated, err on the side of caution. And friendly reminder in case you're still not sure, if they are asleep, they cannot consent. If they are under the legal age, they cannot consent. It's not rocket science. People looking for the legal "loopholes" in my eyes are people who have probably done something wrong and don't want to cop to it.

I totally agree however that can be turned around and then say "well the only way to take back consent is a verbal, sober enthusiastic "no". Which is exactly this loophole so slimy lawyers and slimy people can claim innocence.
Bottom line- NO means NO and it shouldn't matter if a person is drunk, sober or even in the throngs of passion. If someone tells you NO or STOP, just freaking STOP.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I totally agree however that can be turned around and then say "well the only way to take back consent is a verbal, sober enthusiastic "no". Which is exactly this loophole so slimy lawyers and slimy people can claim innocence.
Bottom line- NO means NO and it shouldn't matter if a person is drunk, sober or even in the throngs of passion. If someone tells you NO or STOP, just freaking STOP.

Absolutely, but isn't part of the issue brought up by the article that when you are drinking (or as the article also added have had drugs) you may not actually say no or remember saying no (and TBH that goes for both partners).

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Absolutely. Let me rephrase:

How about if someone's been drinking and is intoxicated to any degree, be a considerate human being and have the decency and common sense to pick a different place and time. Also, the ONLY form of absolute consent is a verbal, sober, enthusiastic "yes." If they are drunk or incapacitated, err on the side of caution. And friendly reminder in case you're still not sure, if they are asleep, they cannot consent. If they are under the legal age, they cannot consent. It's not rocket science. People looking for the legal "loopholes" in my eyes are people who have probably done something wrong and don't want to cop to it.

Agree but I do want to say you don't have to be drunk. Alcohol lowers inhibition for most people. People also have different definitions of drunk. Certainly stumbling and slurring words are clear indicators, but others become very chatty, become more animate or touchy feely, some get louder, etc and that may not be "OMG she's drunk or he's drunk" even though they might actually be or at least they are not of a total clear mind to think over their actions.

In these situations both parties have to agree nothing will happen at all period 100% prior to drink anything or doing any drugs. Once you start drinking you don't really know how much is that person really consenting to of their own free will and how much is because the alcohol (or drugs) are talking; which is what you were saying.

I also want to say I don't think everyone is looking for legal loopholes. It's a situation I think people find themselves in without even fully realizing and with no ill will intended and sometimes those people also find themselves in legal crosshairs unintentionally.

 

[butterscotchcollins]

How can you take back consent you didn't give in the first place? You can't. If you don't/can't consent or don't get consent then that's a problem. And please don't insult anyone's intelligence by pointing out that sexual activity between consenting adults happens without a verbal or written "yes" without it being criminal - if you were raised with any respect for other people, you know the difference. And if you're still nervous about someone accusing you of something you didn't do, maybe appreciate the hypocrisy of someone telling you not to put yourself into that kind of situation in the first place.

 

[Hikergirl]

Absolutely, but isn't part of the issue brought up by the article that when you are drinking (or as the article also added have had drugs) you may not actually say no or remember saying no (and TBH that goes for both partners).

TBH, I didn't read the article past the first sentence so I was only commenting on the pp's post.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

How can you take back consent you didn't give in the first place? You can't. If you don't/can't consent or don't get consent then that's a problem. And please don't insult anyone's intelligence by pointing out that sexual activity between consenting adults happens without a verbal or written "yes" without it being criminal - if you were raised with any respect for other people, you know the difference. And if you're still nervous about someone accusing you of something you didn't do, maybe appreciate the hypocrisy of someone telling you not to put yourself into that kind of situation in the first place.

I don't know who this comment is aimed at TBH as there was no quoted comment.

 

[Erzengel]

I got into this discussion on another board. If a guy has a girlfriend who went out with her friends and gets intoxicated, then dropped off at his place. She'd slides into bed with him and initiates intimacy. By some state's definition, him being stone sober is taking advantage of her and she isn't capable of giving consent.

 

[butterscotchcollins]

I got into this discussion on another board. If a guy has a girlfriend who went out with her friends and gets intoxicated, then dropped off at his place. She'd slides into bed with him and initiates intimacy. By some state's definition, him being stone sober is taking advantage of her and she isn't capable of giving consent.

By that logic she wouldn't wake up thinking anything criminal occurred or pressing charges so it's an irrelevant example. He should be getting her a glass of water and an aspirin anyway.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

@butterscotchcollins my alert says you quoted me but there's no quote there- didn't know if there was some random DIS glitch or not (which wouldn't surprise me lol).

 

[mummabear]

How about if someone's been drinking and is intoxicated to any degree, be a gentleman and have the decency and common sense to pick a different place and time. Then you don't have to worry about "someone withdrawing consent"

Sure if party A is drunk and party B is sober, whether because party B made that happen or not.
But if they are both drunk, and at the time both willing participants, then neither should be able to say they didn't consent in the morning.

 

[butterscotchcollins]

@butterscotchcollins my alert says you quoted me but there's no quote there- didn't know if there was some random DIS glitch or not (which wouldn't surprise me lol).

I accidentally started to reply to the wrong post and deleted! Sorry! For the record I think we're on the same page This topic just gets me hot under the collar b/c I like to think I'm a pretty logical, reasonable person and watching the Mental Gymnastics some people perform while they're wearing their Best Argument Leotards to justify gross behavior is sometimes......just....truly baffling.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I accidentally started to reply to the wrong post and deleted! Sorry! For the record I think we're on the same page This topic just gets me hot under the collar b/c I like to think I'm a pretty logical, reasonable person and watching the Mental Gymnastics some people perform while they're wearing their Best Argument Leotards to justify gross behavior is sometimes......just....truly baffling.

Oh no worries at all! I just didn't know if I was missing something lol

I totally get what you're meaning

 

[mummabear]

I don't know who this comment is aimed at TBH as there was no quoted comment.

I think she was talking about me, as I said withdrawing consent.

I think @butterscotchcollins sees this in very black and white when there is actually some grey in there.

 

[dish rag]

It’s easy enough to not get drunk and avoid the problems that come along with that decision.

 

[TipsyTraveler]

It’s easy enough to not get drunk and avoid the problems that come along with that decision.

It’s easy enough to not rape someone.

 

[dish rag]

It’s easy enough to not rape someone.

Maybe not for some drunk people.