Racial Discrimination? More blatant examples? More subtle?

[Shoshana]

So the SCOTUS says its a race,
legal interpretations to mitigate against discrimination are not synonymous with genetic definitions of race.
The UK defines them as a race,
?
Many Jews self identify as a race,
I assert that more do not. Perhaps you are confounding the common identification as the "Jewish People" with the disputed "Jewish Race."
Rabbi's say it's a race.....
You linked to one rabbi blurb on the topic. I linked to a reputable source regarding education about Jews and Judaism.

yet you all don't
Following this logic, I could note that you've failed to be persuaded by perspectives differing from you own...

Is sense some underlying antisemetic sentiment here
huh? I'm confused? are you saying I'm being antisemetic, or that I (we) are accusing you of being antisemetic? I'm not, by the way, your motives in this discussion remain mysterious to me.

my responses in red

 

[shrubber]

Yup, me and all my Jewish relatives are antisemitic because, if asked our race, we don't answer Jewish.

I can provide just as long a list of people who do don't consider Jewish to be a race. Like, for example, my Rabbi and my family. And the National Institutes of Health.

I believe you said you are a member of the Jewish religion, not a member of the Jewish race. It is possible to be one or the other.
I don't see why you will not admit that.

 

[Shoshana]

Yup, me and all my Jewish relatives are antisemitic because, if asked our race, we don't answer Jewish.

I can provide just as long a list of people who do don't consider Jewish to be a race. Like, for example, my Rabbi and my family. And the National Institutes of Health.

Dancing Bear: Gee, don't get hurt making that big leap. You're really missing the point.

Oh.Good.Grief. Clearly, minds greater than my own understood your mistyped sentence. So you're insinuating that because I disagree with YOU, that I -- a white woman of central European descent (my racial identification) and Jewish (my ethnic and religious identification) -- am ANTI-SEMITIC? I agree with Dancing Bear. What a huge (and unsupported) leap you've made.

 

[crashbb]

Oh look, I've found the ignore button. What fun.

 

[ogreenlee]

I thank God every day that I don't live in Africa anymore. We sort of have Africa in our midst right here though. Have you ever been to downtown Detroit on a Saturday night? How about downtown Los Angeles? We had gangs coming into the emergency department threatening the staff and each other while other gang members lie dying from their violence. I decided that I would not take any more "urban" assignments as a mobile nurse because I learned what that meant.

I keep hearing about "white privilege." I have worked taking care of white people in West Virginia or Kentucky on "rural" assignments where the people were often toothless and some of them didn't even have indoor plumbing. They were so poor. They knew that I was a Yankee girl too. But they never tried to intimidate me. They never used slurs against me. They would invite me "that new nurse lady" to their socials and serve me some iced tea in a food jar with the label soaked off as if it were just the most normal thing in the world. These people who had nothing and were scoffed at as "white trash" never made me feel like I was in any danger or that I owed them anything out there in the middle of no where. They have suffered incredible rates of poverty and scorn but don't have this "World owes me" attitude.

I wouldn't think to call those folks "white trash". Those are mountain hillbillies. They don't have the "world owes me" attitude because they have never been enslaved as a people, and they live separated from the rest of modern culture. There are a lot of lowland country black folks like the Gullahs, who are also separated from the rest of modern culture, and do not act like the urban black folks you speak of who form gangs. There are good and bad in every group. Homosexuals even have their dregs of society....

Maybe you "yankee girls" don't know the difference between "white trash" and "hillbillies" or "country folk", but in the south... I guarantee you that we do.

 

[shrubber]

my responses in red

Rabbi Ari Enkin is not a reputable source?

http://www.rabbis.org/news/article.cfm?id=100824

 

[Shoshana]

Your backhanded antisemitic comment has propelled any value that this discussion might have held, or might have yielded, into the realm of the absurd. I'm finished.

 

[DancingBear]

Rabbi Ari Enkin is not a reputable source?

http://www.rabbis.org/news/article.cfm?id=100824

She never said he wasn't. She just said his view is not definitive, and that she provided a reputable source with a contrary view.

 

[Mrs.Toad]

And I don't get why you want me to say something that I believe is untrue. Jews are an ethnic group, many of whom share the religious practices of Judaism. Hitler and other eugenicists believed Jews were a race -- not one Jew that I know shares this belief.

Here's an academic link that discusses the problematic nature of racial categorization. http://raceandgenomics.ssrc.org/Lewontin/

This is really the most important point. The Jewish people I know don't identify themselves as of the Jewish race, either, even the ones who likely are. If asked, they are caucasian and their religion is Judaism.

Shrubber, Shoshana was giving examples of her experiences with racism. She mentioned nasty things that have been said to her about Jews, and clearly she finds those comments bigoted not against her race, but against her religion. If you choose to see those comments as racist, that's OK, they are certainly bigoted in one way or another, and wasn't that really the point of this discussion?

The funny thing is, if she hadn't included that comment "not a race", someone would have probably leapt all over that, and you'd still be arguing over whether or not it was a race!

So the SCOTUS says its a race,
The UK defines them as a race,
Many Jews self identify as a race,
Rabbi's say it's a race.....
yet you all don't

I sense some underlying antisemetic sentiment here

This has got to be one of the most illogical things I have ever read, and having been on various internet boards for many years, that's really saying something!

 

[shrubber]

Your backhanded antisemitic comment has propelled any value that this discussion might have held, or might have yielded, into the realm of the absurd. I'm finished.

I am truly sorry you feel that way.
However,I fail to see any antisemitic comments on my part.
Quite to the contrary, I have tried to explain that being Jewish is not soley the providence of religious beliefs, and is quite relevant to the discussion of racism here.
I am amazed to hear that some here fail to see that that Jews have and continue to victims of racial discrimination.

 

[shrubber]

She never said he wasn't. She just said his view is not definitive, and that she provided a reputable source with a contrary view.

That reputable source is a blog.

http://www.jewfaq.org/author.htm

About the Author

"This site is created, written and maintained by Tracey Rich. I do not claim to be a rabbi or an expert on Judaism"

My source was a Rabbi , a member of the Rabbinical Council of America
http://www.rabbis.org/news/article.cfm?id=100824

Difference?

 

[DancingBear]

I am amazed to hear that some here fail to see that that Jews have and continue to victims of racial discrimination.

Hmmmm. I posted a Supreme Court decision that in fact found that Jews were victims of racial discrimination, at least for the purposes of the specific statute at issue, so I assume I'm not part of "some here".

And Shoshana pointed out that the Nazis not only discriminated against but executed Jews for what the Nazis said were racial reasons, she just rejects the Nazi's right to so classify her.

 

[shrubber]

Hmmmm. I posted a Supreme Court decision that in fact found that Jews were victims of racial discrimination, at least for the purposes of the specific statute at issue, so I assume I'm not part of "some here".

And Shoshana pointed out that the Nazis not only discriminated against but executed Jews for what the Nazis said were racial reasons, she just rejects the Nazi's right to so classify her.

What am I missing here?
Yes you posted the Supreme court case, but with the caveot that you felt the determination of race was open for debate.
For example, the question of whether Jews are a race (and what in general constitutes differences in races) is very much a subject of debate, and has evolved over time and in different circumstances.

So is there a race of Jewish people or isn't there?