Quitting vs Fired

[PigletsMommy]

What information can be given out about an ex employee if they quit vs if they get fired?

It is my understanding that if a person quits (no matter how long the notice is) that they can not get unemployement but the previous employer can only confirm that the person worked there and for how long.

Its my understanding if a person gets fired that they can collect unemployement, but there is a waiting period, and the employer can go into more details about why they were fired. How much details?

My friend and I were having a debate this morning about this. I've only quit my jobs so I don't know what the whole "getting fired" thing does to a person's reputation when it comes it getting another job.

 

[worm761]

What information can be given out about an ex employee if they quit vs if they get fired?

It is my understanding that if a person quits (no matter how long the notice is) that they can not get unemployement but the previous employer can only confirm that the person worked there and for how long.

Its my understanding if a person gets fired that they can collect unemployement, but there is a waiting period, and the employer can go into more details about why they were fired. How much details?

My friend and I were having a debate this morning about this. I've only quit my jobs so I don't know what the whole "getting fired" thing does to a person's reputation when it comes it getting another job.

When someone calls about a prospective employees history you can only confirm facts, ie when they started, how long they worked there. BUT what can get you is that they can ask "is this person eligible for rehire?" and that question can be answered.
You can only collect unemployment if you can prove you were unjustly fired. If you don't show up to work and they fire you, you don't get unemployment. If they say you did something but can't prove it, then you get unemployment. And they can only go into detail in court with the whys of the termination.

 

[Robinrs]

I would check the requirements for your state's Dept of Labor. Each case is based on the particulars of your loss of job.

 

[tar heel]

If someone is fired "for cause," they will have a hard time getting unemployment in North Carolina. I don't know about other states.

I may be wrong, but I don't think there are laws about what a company can give out about about a former employee. Those are COMPANY policies not laws.

 

[PigletsMommy]

When someone calls about a prospective employees history you can only confirm facts, ie when they started, how long they worked there. BUT what can get you is that they can ask "is this person eligible for rehire?" and that question can be answered.
You can only collect unemployment if you can prove you were unjustly fired. If you don't show up to work and they fire you, you don't get unemployment. If they say you did something but can't prove it, then you get unemployment. And they can only go into detail in court with the whys of the termination.

Thanks so much. I don't know a whole lot of the particulars. Just wanted to help someone make an informed decision.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

I believe that it differs from state to state, but many states allow complete disclosure. Of course, legal department tend to err on the side of safety and still only allow HR/management to verify dates of employment.

 

[Arielle22]

I am an HR Mgr. No state has a law which restricts what you can disclose. Companies can make policy on what is disclosed and who discloses it. A company does not have to do a verification at all if it choses not to.

Unemployment vaires by state. Some have waiting periods and others do not. If you quit it would be a long uphill battle to get unemployment but I have seen it happen.

If you are fired, it comes down to the specifics of why you were fired and the details such as, was it a first offense, if this was not the first offense was there a warning prior that your job was in jeopardy?

There is no sure case with unemployment. I have seen cases I thought I won and I lost then cases I thought I lost that I won.

 

[CaliforniaDreamin]

If someone is fired "for cause," they will have a hard time getting unemployment in North Carolina. I don't know about other states.

I may be wrong, but I don't think there are laws about what a company can give out about about a former employee. Those are COMPANY policies not laws.

Ah, yes....the joys of living and working in an "at will" state. They can fire you at any time for no reason. Yet, I am expected to give a 2 week notice when I quit. I don't mind anyway. I work in HR and I know how employees are coded when leaving the company. And those codes determine if you are suitable, provisional or not suitable for rehire. I'm leaving voluntarily for health reasons. So that will put me in a suitable for rehire status in case I get better and can return to work someday. Don't want to burn any bridges.

 

[DawnCt1]

If someone is fired "for cause," they will have a hard time getting unemployment in North Carolina. I don't know about other states.

I may be wrong, but I don't think there are laws about what a company can give out about about a former employee. Those are COMPANY policies not laws.

The same is true of Ct. If you are fired for 'cause' then the company will block attempts at getting unemployment benefits. Sometimes the 'cause' is fabricated. I went to hearing as a witness for someone today. We feel confident that he prevailed.

 

[CaliforniaDreamin]

I am an HR Mgr. No state has a law which restricts what you can disclose. Companies can make policy on what is disclosed and who discloses it. A company does not have to do a verification at all if it choses not to.

Unemployment vaires by state. Some have waiting periods and others do not. If you quit it would be a long uphill battle to get unemployment but I have seen it happen.

I *think* that if you quit due to a medical issue that prevents you from doing your job, you might be able to draw. I haven't really investigated this though. I'm leaving my job due to medical reasons, but I'm seeking SSDI, so I don't even know if it would be worth my time to apply for unemployment.

 

[Wenny]

Generally, if you are unable to work due to medical reasons, you cannot collect unemployment. Unemployment is for people who are looking for work, but cannot find it.

 

[PigletsMommy]

I am an HR Mgr. No state has a law which restricts what you can disclose. Companies can make policy on what is disclosed and who discloses it. A company does not have to do a verification at all if it choses not to.

Unemployment vaires by state. Some have waiting periods and others do not. If you quit it would be a long uphill battle to get unemployment but I have seen it happen.

If you are fired, it comes down to the specifics of why you were fired and the details such as, was it a first offense, if this was not the first offense was there a warning prior that your job was in jeopardy?

There is no sure case with unemployment. I have seen cases I thought I won and I lost then cases I thought I lost that I won.

Well I *think* this person might have a good case for a hostile work environment...but, again, I'm not sure if I know all the particulars. I know it would be an uphill battle but also know the job market out there is hard enough these days too. The person is leaning toward quitting because of how difficult it could be to fight this and because the threat of being fired has been hanging over their head for several weeks now.

This person could wait to get fired and then fight for unemployment. But when they look for another job I'm not sure what, if anything, this employer could say to make them look bad to a new employer. And they are vindictive like that.... I know, I used to work for them and left due to these "games".

They could go and quit, letting go of any chance of unemployment. Which would take this person out of an extremely stressful situation. Maybe give them a little more control over their own life again...

There has been some issues going on for a while and I have told them to make sure they keep track of dates, times, names...whats said. Consult a lawyer. But I dont think they have taken any of my advice thus far on all that...so I think trying to prove hostile work environment could be difficult.

 

[Arielle22]

I *think* that if you quit due to a medical issue that prevents you from doing your job, you might be able to draw. I haven't really investigated this though. I'm leaving my job due to medical reasons, but I'm seeking SSDI, so I don't even know if it would be worth my time to apply for unemployment.

You have to be able and willing to work in order to collect unemployment. So you would have to prove you could do another job but not the one you left.

Good luck with your health issues.

Also for the other posters, All states except in some cases Montana are at-will states.

 

[Arielle22]

Well I *think* this person might have a good case for a hostile work environment...but, again, I'm not sure if I know all the particulars. I know it would be an uphill battle but also know the job market out there is hard enough these days too. The person is leaning toward quitting because of how difficult it could be to fight this and because the threat of being fired has been hanging over their head for several weeks now.

This person could wait to get fired and then fight for unemployment. But when they look for another job I'm not sure what, if anything, this employer could say to make them look bad to a new employer. And they are vindictive like that.... I know, I used to work for them and left due to these "games".

They could go and quit, letting go of any chance of unemployment. Which would take this person out of an extremely stressful situation. Maybe give them a little more control over their own life again...

There has been some issues going on for a while and I have told them to make sure they keep track of dates, times, names...whats said. Consult a lawyer. But I dont think they have taken any of my advice thus far on all that...so I think trying to prove hostile work environment could be difficult.

It is always better for unemployment purposes to be fired rather than quit. Being fired means the company has the burden of proof while quitting shifts the burden of proof to the employer.

Hostile work environment is a legal term which refers to a volation of federal law for specific reasons (gender, race, religion are some). Those cases get filed with the EEOC. Some states protect other classes as well.

What most people consider hostile work environment is legal. I am not saying it is moral or right, just not illegal. Being a jerk or calling everyone names is being a bad boss but not ilegal. Being mean and vindictive is not illegal either.

If your friend is being interviewed she should explain to the new company that the boss may give a bad reference and why. Then the hiring mgr won't feel like they were blindsided. Also no matter how much your friend hates the current company, she should not badmouth the company during interviews. She needs to spin her leaving into a positive light.

I also agree with the PP who said not to burn bridges. You never know who you might be working with in the future and who they are connected to.

 

[NY Disney fan]

Its my understanding if a person gets fired that they can collect unemployement, but there is a waiting period, and the employer can go into more details about why they were fired. How much details?

Where I work you can get unemployment if you are fired for performance issues. If you get fired for insubordination, all bets are off.

Also, where I work, it is illegal for a former employer to give references. They can only give dates of service.

 

[It'sWDW4me]

Well I *think* this person might have a good case for a hostile work environment...but, again, I'm not sure if I know all the particulars. I know it would be an uphill battle but also know the job market out there is hard enough these days too. The person is leaning toward quitting because of how difficult it could be to fight this and because the threat of being fired has been hanging over their head for several weeks now.

This person could wait to get fired and then fight for unemployment. But when they look for another job I'm not sure what, if anything, this employer could say to make them look bad to a new employer. And they are vindictive like that.... I know, I used to work for them and left due to these "games".

They could go and quit, letting go of any chance of unemployment. Which would take this person out of an extremely stressful situation. Maybe give them a little more control over their own life again...

There has been some issues going on for a while and I have told them to make sure they keep track of dates, times, names...whats said. Consult a lawyer. But I dont think they have taken any of my advice thus far on all that...so I think trying to prove hostile work environment could be difficult.

Yes, definitely keep copies of notes, emails, letters and make notes about conversations (date, time, person(s) involved, what was said or inferred from what was said). All of this can carry a lot of weight during an unemployment hearing. I have a friend who quit due to an incompetant HR director and won all challenges to her collecting unemployment. Yes, she had copies of emails and such backing her up in her decision to ultimately quit the rotten place.

In that case, going to interviews for a new job, I would think it would cover any questions by being able to say "I quit my last job due to extenuating circumstances in the workplace. Because of these circumstances/this situation, I was able to collect unemployment. I was there for x years before I quit." Right there, the hiring person knows that there was a bad situation that developed over time and, since details are provided at hearings when unemployment is challenged, that the previous employer was in the wrong. They can contact said previous employer but take what info is given with a grain of salt knowing there will probably be no glowing reviews from them.

 

[tink_n_pooh]

I had a woman work for us for part time for about 2 years (set hours every day, 24 hours per week). At one point she told me that she could no longer work her 24 hours because she needed to be home for the summer with her kids, she could only work 4-5 hours per week. I told her that unfortunately that would not work for us and we were going to have to find her replacement unless she could give us more hours (I was willing to compromise for 2 summer months to maybe 18-20 hours a week). She acknowledged that we were willing to compromise but still stuck to the only 4-5 hours per week. I found her replacement and let her go. She tried to get unemployment... I filled out the unemployment forms when they came, had a phone interview with the unemployment officer and she did NOT get the benefits.

We fired another woman because she lied on her resume and said she was able to do things that she obviously had no knowledge of in reality, she ended up getting unemployment benefits despite my fight

When we call for refereneces we are really only allowed to ask to confirm dates of employment and ask if the employee is eligible for rehire but many times the previous employer just offers up additional information

 

[chicagodisneyfan]

I have my PHR and have worked for several companies. An employer can give out FACTS and that is perfectly legal.

For instance I can say that an employee was fired due to excessive absenteeism, or because they smelled (true story), or poor evaluations. Anything that is documented can be given out.

Unfortunately too many companies fear being sued and therefore only give out dates of employment. All it does is pass on poor candidates to the next company.

 

[GoofyforDisney3]

Ah, yes....the joys of living and working in an "at will" state. They can fire you at any time for no reason. Yet, I am expected to give a 2 week notice when I quit. I don't mind anyway. I work in HR and I know how employees are coded when leaving the company. And those codes determine if you are suitable, provisional or not suitable for rehire. I'm leaving voluntarily for health reasons. So that will put me in a suitable for rehire status in case I get better and can return to work someday. Don't want to burn any bridges.

That isn't entirely true. You are not required to give a notice. In a right to work state, you can quit at any time for any reason. A notice (regardless of length) is a courtesy to the employeer, not a law. Now, a employeer can set a policy that says you will only be paid out vacation time/PTO/unused sick leave/etc if you provide x number of days notice. Unless of course the state you live in has a law that says they have to pay it regardless.

IMO, if you are ever in a position that you want to leave a job without giving notice, you probably do not want to work at that company again any way.

 

[teacherforhi]

That isn't entirely true. You are not required to give a notice. In a right to work state, you can quit at any time for any reason. A notice (regardless of length) is a courtesy to the employeer, not a law. Now, a employeer can set a policy that says you will only be paid out vacation time/PTO/unused sick leave/etc if you provide x number of days notice. Unless of course the state you live in has a law that says they have to pay it regardless.

IMO, if you are ever in a position that you want to leave a job without giving notice, you probably do not want to work at that company again any way.

Actually, no. NC is a right-to-work state, and I am a state employee. We are required, by state law, to give 30 days notice if we intend to leave our position. The system can release us before the 30 days is up, but there's no guarantee that it will be waived.