Questions about multiple births....

[SueM in MN]

Wasn't there another set of "natural " quints in the '70s? Kiennast or something similar? I remember them being featured in a lot of magazines when they were little. I think the dad couldn't handle the strain (they had other two children before the quints) and he killed himself when they were like 14 yrs old

Yes, they were "natural" quints. Here's a website about them.

If that's true -and I believe it is- then that means that the Dionne quints would have been natural octuplets and three didn't survive? Or is that impossible?

ETA: I don't even know much (or anything) about those things, so the above may be a really dumb question)

No
A single egg was twinned once to produce Yvonne & Annette, and then twinned twice to produce Cecile and another egg. This other egg split to produce Emilie and Marie.
Emilie was a 'mirror image' of Marie and was left handed, while all the others were right handed.
This is the website I got the information from, but I have read it in different books. The Dionne Quintuplets were the most studied children of their time (they basically were treated as exotic creatures in a nice zoo). They were cataloged down to who had hair whirls and which way they whirled, weighed and measured daily, even had all their stools measured.

This is a cool site about the Dionne Quintuplets. They had a very sad story. There are 2 interesting books about them; one was written in the late 1960s by the Quints who were still alive at the time and is titled "We Were Five." The other was written with their cooperation around 1995 and is titled "Family Secrets".

 

[PaulaSB12]

Oh if you have more than one baby at a time they always get the boys out first!!!!!!! That is my nephews reason why he is the oldest (he isn't but its still funny)

 

[mjkacmom]

I have triplets who were naturally conceived. I have 2 girls and 1 boy. I was told they were fraternal, of course my son is, but it's really hard to tell the girls apart. I never had them tested to see if they were identical because I was told when they were in the womb that they were fraternal. I have a friend that has identical boys and when she was pregnant they told her she had identical twins and a fraternal. They did have them tested when they were born and they are identical. Of course, it's really hard to tell them apart.

So my triplets are fraternal and conceived without the aid of fertility drugs.

There's a good chance your girls are identical - I know many twin moms who were falsely told their twins were fraternal, because they didn't share a placenta, and tested them, and found out they were fraternal. It depends on when the egg splits.

 

[moon]

Yes, they were "natural" quints. Here's a website about them.

Thanks Sue. Nice update. I hadn't heard from them in years. They seem to be doing well

A single egg was twinned once to produce Yvonne & Annette, and then twinned twice to produce Cecile and another egg. This other egg split to produce Emilie and Marie.
Emilie was a 'mirror image' of Marie and was left handed, while all the others were right handed.
This is the website I got the information from, but I have read it in different books. The Dionne Quintuplets were the most studied children of their time (they basically were treated as exotic creatures in a nice zoo). They were cataloged down to who had hair whirls and which way they whirled, weighed and measured daily, even had all their stools measured.

This is a cool site about the Dionne Quintuplets. They had a very sad story. There are 2 interesting books about them; one was written in the late 1960s by the Quints who were still alive at the time and is titled "We Were Five." The other was written with their cooperation around 1995 and is titled "Family Secrets".

My mom had told me about the Dionne quints. I saw their story on Biography, and it's tragic. When I saw the newsreel featurng them as children in a playground behind a fence with a multitude of strangers on the opposite side just gawking at them my jaw hit the floor. It was exactly like a zoo. It's hard to believe that such public child abuse was allowed. My heart broke for them

 

[almburr]

I just read an article this past week on cnn I believe of a mother who came here from Sudane seeking asylumn who was pregnant naturally with quintuplets. According to the article, which I can't find a link for, it was the 15th case (or 16th) of naturally conceived quintuplets ever.

I then had a nightmare that that would happen to me.

I feel for this woman, there is no one helping her(her mom wont be here long,and no free diapers or formula) or nor she have the media coverage. Her story is better than the woman who just wants a lot of kids.

 

[snarlingcoyote]

There are also the v. rare polar body twins. This was only a theory until a few years ago when it was proved to be real, as I understand it.

In this instance, the woman has an egg that splits. The egg is then fertilized by two different sperm.

I know someone who thinks she and her twin may be this sort of twin. They are identical in the face and are spookily similar in most other ways, but are about 4 inches apart in height and have a few other small variances that identicals probably wouldn't. Of course, they may only be very close fraternals, but if you ever saw pictures of them together, face to face, you'd swear they were identicals.

 

[snarlingcoyote]

I had 5 children in 6 years, and yes, pleased as punch!

I'm very glad for you and glad you made that choice if it works for you and your family.

However, identical triplets means that mom didn't make a choice for 3. She made a choice to get pregnant again ONCE. Even if she was delighted and on cloud 9 once she found out. . .well. There would have to be that sinking feeling as you realize. . .3 the same age. Oh, the diapers and the clothing and the milk and the need to have 3 of everything at the EXACT same time!

Just a bit more than you bargained for when you spun the wheel of conception, I would think.

Still. At least she'd already done it for 2, and they looked like cheerful, nice girls. . .so at least she wasn't as unprepared as most of us would've been.

 

[mjkacmom]

I'm very glad for you and glad you made that choice if it works for you and your family.

However, identical triplets means that mom didn't make a choice for 3. She made a choice to get pregnant again ONCE. Even if she was delighted and on cloud 9 once she found out. . .well. There would have to be that sinking feeling as you realize. . .3 the same age. Oh, the diapers and the clothing and the milk and the need to have 3 of everything at the EXACT same time!

Just a bit more than you bargained for when you spun the wheel of conception, I would think.

Still. At least she'd already done it for 2, and they looked like cheerful, nice girls. . .so at least she wasn't as unprepared as most of us would've been.

Actually, we weren't even planning on having any more kids, and our "happy accident" turned out to be twins!

 

[RitaE]

Yes, they were "natural" quints. Here's a website about them.
My mom had told me about the Dionne quints. I saw their story on Biography, and it's tragic. When I saw the newsreel featurng them as children in a playground behind a fence with a multitude of strangers on the opposite side just gawking at them my jaw hit the floor. It was exactly like a zoo. It's hard to believe that such public child abuse was allowed. My heart broke for them

That story about the Dionne girls is just heartbreaking. On one of those websites there is a letter from the surviving sisters to the parents of the McCaughey children. There is a line in there that is very poignant. Children are not meant to be entertainment. It rather sums of my feelings on the whole John and Kate and the Duggars and anybody else who totally commercializes their children in order to support the family. I realize the financial burden these families face is astronomical and perhaps they feel they have no other choice, but I firmly refuse to participate in it by watching those shows.

I also read once where the issued a public request to not be referred to as the "Dionne Quints." They struggled their whole lives to try and gain an identity. Sadly, they were never really able to.

 

[Tinker74]

There are also the v. rare polar body twins. This was only a theory until a few years ago when it was proved to be real, as I understand it.

In this instance, the woman has an egg that splits. The egg is then fertilized by two different sperm.

I know someone who thinks she and her twin may be this sort of twin. They are identical in the face and are spookily similar in most other ways, but are about 4 inches apart in height and have a few other small variances that identicals probably wouldn't. Of course, they may only be very close fraternals, but if you ever saw pictures of them together, face to face, you'd swear they were identicals.

Does this mean they could be Boy/girl as they would be from different sperm?
This is a very interesting subject.
I have a friend who has twin 8 yr old girls...she swears they are fraternal but they are completely identical in every way...noone can tell them apart...For some reason my friend insists they sre fraternal??

 

[mjkacmom]

Does this mean they could be Boy/girl as they would be from different sperm?
This is a very interesting subject.
I have a friend who has twin 8 yr old girls...she swears they are fraternal but they are completely identical in every way...noone can tell them apart...For some reason my friend insists they sre fraternal??

They probably had their own sacks and placentas, and even today, some doctors don't realize that they can still be identical, and tell their patients they are fraternal.

 

[bekkiz]

They probably had their own sacks and placentas, and even today, some doctors don't realize that they can still be identical, and tell their patients they are fraternal.

Yeah, with DNA testing becoming so much cheaper and very reliable, I think a lot of doctors are shocked that a much larger percentage of di/di (different sac and different placentas) are actually identical, when maybe even 7-10 years ago, all di-di twins were thought to be fraternal.

My two were di/di, and I'm pretty sure they're ID, we'll probably cough up the $150 bucks some day to find out.

 

[sorul82?]

At Epcot last week, I saw a woman pushing a double stroller. Next to her was a schoolage girl dressed as a princess, 4th or 5th grade I'd guess, pushing a single stroller. On the other side of the double stroller was another girl, same height, dressed as another princess. No stroller. We outpaced them and drew up. 2 identical twin girls with their mom and 3 little ones. Then the strollers and the little family turned. 3 identical little toddler girls were in those strollers.

I had this sudden, horrifying thought. So, mom got PG, found out she was having twins. All well and good. She gets them up, into school, decides to finish off their family. Lightening surely wouldn't strike twice!

Of course not, she got identical triplets this time!

Maybe she's pleased as punch with her family. . .but I just can't imagine. . .

Once you have twins or more (naturally), your chances of having multiples again greatly increases.

 

[sorul82?]

I grew up with a girl whose first cousins were the ONLY set of identical Quads in the US at the time. (My mom always disses the IUD as a form of birth control as the Quads' mom delivered hers with them) We spent a fair amount of time with these girls. They were only a year older than me.



Identical anything is NEVER due to fertility drugs. Fertility drugs only cause a woman to release more than the normal (one) number of eggs during a cycle. Identical multiples ALWAYS come from one embryo that splits. What I find interesting, is that depending on when it splits, the babies might share an amniotic sack or not. And they might be mirror twins or not.

I wouldn't say never, as someone could take fertility drugs, release 2 eggs and 1 split. BUT, the splitting egg is not due to the drugs.

They aren't genetic b/c you can't predict if the egg will split or not. Twins are on the mom's side of the family. Some women drop 2 eggs at a time which is inherited. That gives you fraternal twins. Identicals come when one egg splits and that can't be predicted, it is a freak of nature or an act of G-d, depending on your view. However there are factors that help explain identicals, some have suggested that the older you get the weaker the eggs you carry are, thus the easier for them to split into twins.
I was 35 when I conceived my twins, maybe that explains it, maybe G-d just thought I needed them. Everyone wants to know if it runs in your family but identicals can't, so you just smile and say "They do now". The fact that my dad was a twin is not relevant, mens' sperm can't split an egg!

I did so much research when I was on bed rest with my twins. All the experts say it is random. However, my brother's step-son and his first cousin both have identical twins. Strange coincidence?

I have triplets who were naturally conceived. I have 2 girls and 1 boy. I was told they were fraternal, of course my son is, but it's really hard to tell the girls apart. I never had them tested to see if they were identical because I was told when they were in the womb that they were fraternal. I have a friend that has identical boys and when she was pregnant they told her she had identical twins and a fraternal. They did have them tested when they were born and they are identical. Of course, it's really hard to tell them apart.

So my triplets are fraternal and conceived without the aid of fertility drugs.

You may have had one egg to split.

That story about the Dionne girls is just heartbreaking. On one of those websites there is a letter from the surviving sisters to the parents of the McCaughey children. There is a line in there that is very poignant. Children are not meant to be entertainment. It rather sums of my feelings on the whole John and Kate and the Duggars and anybody else who totally commercializes their children in order to support the family. I realize the financial burden these families face is astronomical and perhaps they feel they have no other choice, but I firmly refuse to participate in it by watching those shows.

I am so with you on this.

 

[PlainJane]

I knew identical triplets growing up. Very rare, but they're out there.

I know tons of twins (identical and fraternal) in this area. Maybe there is something in the water Thankfully, I've always been good at telling twins and trips apart. I always feel bad for them, when people don't know who they are talking to.

I always thought I would like to have twins, but as I get older the less appealing it sounds

 

[Keli]

There are also the v. rare polar body twins. This was only a theory until a few years ago when it was proved to be real, as I understand it.

In this instance, the woman has an egg that splits. The egg is then fertilized by two different sperm.

I know someone who thinks she and her twin may be this sort of twin. They are identical in the face and are spookily similar in most other ways, but are about 4 inches apart in height and have a few other small variances that identicals probably wouldn't. Of course, they may only be very close fraternals, but if you ever saw pictures of them together, face to face, you'd swear they were identicals.

I wasn't aware that these types of twins would be considered very rare but that is the type of twins my sister and I are but we don't look much alike at all.
There are certain things that are identical about us (eyes/vision, teeth, a few other small things) but overall we are not all that similar.
But we were in one sac and initially labeled identical. Because of some issues prior to our birth the doctor did order several tests that normally wouldn't have been done and the results did give them better insight to our situation.

 

[sorul82?]

I knew identical triplets growing up. Very rare, but they're out there.

I know tons of twins (identical and fraternal) in this area. Maybe there is something in the water

Or lots of sweet potatoes?

Which BTW, was the crop on my family's farm in 1998. I had sweet potatoes for the fam reunion, Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Year's.

I never knew sweet potatoes increased fertility until I was stuck in bed....reading and reading and reading.....everything I could get my hands on about multiples.


This is what I looked like carrying twins in my 5' body.

 

[moon]

Does this mean they could be Boy/girl as they would be from different sperm?
This is a very interesting subject.
I have a friend who has twin 8 yr old girls...she swears they are fraternal but they are completely identical in every way...noone can tell them apart...For some reason my friend insists they sre fraternal??

Funny, that's what they say about the Olson twins. I've read several times that they are fraternal twins, even tho they are so identical that they were able to play one character. How would they know they are fraternal twins?

 

[lil mermaid]

There are also the v. rare polar body twins. This was only a theory until a few years ago when it was proved to be real, as I understand it.

In this instance, the woman has an egg that splits. The egg is then fertilized by two different sperm.

I know someone who thinks she and her twin may be this sort of twin. They are identical in the face and are spookily similar in most other ways, but are about 4 inches apart in height and have a few other small variances that identicals probably wouldn't. Of course, they may only be very close fraternals, but if you ever saw pictures of them together, face to face, you'd swear they were identicals.

Wow, never heard of this. Theoretically, couldn't polar body twins have different fathers?

Actually I guess fraternal twins could too...right?

 

[ZephyrHawk]

Sextuplets have been naturally conceived and born, but not with all surviving past the first few hours of birth.

Wow, never heard of this. Theoretically, couldn't polar body twins have different fathers?

Yes, it is possible.


Another thing everyone may find of interest (well, I do anyways) is that female identical twins are never quite as identical as male identical twins. Why? Because they have two X chromosomes. There is no reason to express both chromosomes in one cell and so one always tucks itself away as a barr body and doesn't get expressed. Then any cells that particular cell splits to form will have that particular X chromosome not expressed, but some other cells may express it and have the other X as a barr body, and they will split to form yet more cells. It's why we get calico cats and why they're always female (or really messed up sterile males). Coloration in cats is coded on the X. The kittens get one color from mom, one color from dad, and they express those colors in patches of cells that we can actually see. Humans don't encode colors on the X, but any traits which are there will express themselves in differing "patches" in female twins. Mind you, this is pretty much nothing the average person could see with the naked eye, but I still think it's fascinating.