Questions about multiple births....

Tigger&Belle

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What's the greatest number of babies to be born at one time without the aid of fertility drugs, etc?

What's the greatest number of identical babies to be born at one time? I'm pretty sure I've heard of identical quads. Could have been identical triplets, with one egg splitting and then one of them splitting again.
 
I know I have heard of identical quads before. There was a show on that they had 4 red headed girls that were identical.

Here is what my twin boards FAQ site says:
There are also several other examples of multiple births, involving octuplets or even nine, 10 or as many as 15 fetuses, but with all resulting in all babies being miscarried or stillborn or with just one or two surviving babies.

Included in those cases were reports of decaplets (10 babies) being born to mothers in Spain in 1924, China in 1936, Brazil in 1947 but it is unknown if any babies survived. All three of those births, if they can be verified, would have been conceived without the use of fertility drugs.

http://www.twinstuff.com/wiki/index.php/Higher_Order_Multiples
Very interesting reading!
 
I believe, as far as verifiable births, the Dionne Quints are the largest 'natural' multiple birth where all survived.
 

DD has a friend with identical triplet sisters. When we met them, I was intrigued so I looked it up. It is so rare there are no statistics on identical trip births.

A quick Google search came up with a surprising number (considering) of identical quads.

http://www.mathiasquads.org/

http://www.thestandard.com.hk/news_detail.asp?pp_cat=17&art_id=51531&sid=14988734&con_type=1 and a year later http://www.cbc.ca/canada/calgary/story/2008/08/12/jepp-quads-birthday.html?ref=rss

All I can say is :faint: one is enough for us! :rotfl:
 
Sonya, that's a fascinating article. How old are your girls?

Multiples are such an interesting thing. I wanted all daughters (wanted 3 dd), but for some reason I wanted twin sons. :confused3 I didn't end up with any multiples and have one daughter and three sons. We were SO glad our youngest wasn't twins since he was such a handful. :faint:
 
I believe, as far as verifiable births, the Dionne Quints are the largest 'natural' multiple birth where all survived.

Wasn't there another set of "natural " quints in the '70s? Kiennast or something similar? I remember them being featured in a lot of magazines when they were little. I think the dad couldn't handle the strain (they had other two children before the quints) and he killed himself when they were like 14 yrs old :guilty:
 
T&B, they are almost 2. And I was really hoping they would be girls, my friend has twin sons and they are such a handful!
 
The Dionne quintuplets were IDENTICAL and conceived without fertility drugs. Theirs is a wretched story of exploitation.
 
If I am not mistaken, when you have identical triplets, they were usually quads, but one embryo did not survive gestation.
 
If I am not mistaken, when you have identical triplets, they were usually quads, but one embryo did not survive gestation.

If that's true -and I believe it is- then that means that the Dionne quints would have been natural octuplets and three didn't survive? Or is that impossible?

ETA: I don't even know much (or anything) about those things, so the above may be a really dumb question)
 
If I am not mistaken, when you have identical triplets, they were usually quads, but one embryo did not survive gestation.


In this case one embryo spit and then split again.




WHEN the ultrasound scan showed that his patient was going to have three babies instead of one, Dr Cheng Li Chang's first thought was: 'This can't be, it's so rare. Aiyoh, it's going to be tough!'

Triplets are, in themselves, rare, but 30-year-old Ms Gladys Lim's babies are further up the rarity stakes: They are identical, and were conceived naturally to boot.

Most triplets are the result of fertility treatments, in which two or more fertilised eggs are planted in the womb.


Ms Lim and her husband Joey Chiew's three sons, however, came from a single egg which split into two. One of the two then divided again, to make three babies.

The couple, who have a 16-month-old daughter, were 'shocked and surprised' when told, eight weeks into the pregnancy, that they were expecting triplets. The first scan just two weeks earlier had shown only one baby.

Mr Chiew, an army regular, said: 'How rare it is to have triplets conceived naturally. It is a blessing, and a gift from God.'

Ms Lim, a higher technical officer with the Housing Board, said: 'We were not so much concerned about their rarity as we were about their health. We were worried they would be premature and develop complications.'

Even Dr Cheng had been worried, because the three babies were contained within the same protective sac, instead of in separate ones.

Sharing a sac meant they shared the same placenta which supplied oxygen and other nutrients, which increased the risk of one baby taking in more nutrients at the others' expense. An undernourished baby could die in the womb.

To stabilise the pregnancy and keep the babies in the womb for as long as possible, Ms Lim took medication to relax her muscles and prevent premature contractions. She rested at home from mid-October.

She was also given injections to help her babies' lungs mature, so their chances of survival would be improved if they were born early.

But as signs of one baby becoming malnourished began showing on Thursday, Dr Cheng performed a Caesarean section. They had, at the time, been in the womb for 34 weeks, a little short of the full term of 37 to 40 weeks.

At 1.38kg to 1.51kg each, they weigh just half as much as full-term babies.

But Zachariah, Jeremiah and Nehemiah, born one minute apart, are healthy. They do not need breathing or feeding tubes.

Barring infection, they should be discharged from Thomson Medical Centre within a month, said their paediatrician, Dr Keoy Soo Shin.

Their parents and Dr Cheng are relieved they are well. Ms Lim said: 'I hope everything goes well from now - no hiccups, no complications.'

Dr Cheng, 48, has had patients give birth to triplets at least once a year since he began handling fertility treatments at Thomson Medical Centre in 1994. But this is the first set of naturally conceived identical triplets he has delivered.

Last year, one of his patients who had undergone fertility treatment gave birth to triplets, but from two eggs. One of the eggs had divided to produce a pair of identical twins, in addition to the first baby.

Doctors at KK Women's and Children's Hospital do not recall delivering any naturally conceived triplets there.

Since 1986, Singapore General Hospital has delivered 51 sets of triplets, of which three sets were naturally conceived. It is not known if they were identical.
 
I just read an article this past week on cnn I believe of a mother who came here from Sudane seeking asylumn who was pregnant naturally with quintuplets. According to the article, which I can't find a link for, it was the 15th case (or 16th) of naturally conceived quintuplets ever.

I then had a nightmare that that would happen to me.
 
I just read an article this past week on cnn I believe of a mother who came here from Sudane seeking asylumn who was pregnant naturally with quintuplets. According to the article, which I can't find a link for, it was the 15th case (or 16th) of naturally conceived quintuplets ever.

I then had a nightmare that that would happen to me.

At Epcot last week, I saw a woman pushing a double stroller. Next to her was a schoolage girl dressed as a princess, 4th or 5th grade I'd guess, pushing a single stroller. On the other side of the double stroller was another girl, same height, dressed as another princess. No stroller. We outpaced them and drew up. 2 identical twin girls with their mom and 3 little ones. Then the strollers and the little family turned. 3 identical little toddler girls were in those strollers.

I had this sudden, horrifying thought. So, mom got PG, found out she was having twins. All well and good. She gets them up, into school, decides to finish off their family. Lightening surely wouldn't strike twice!

Of course not, she got identical triplets this time!

Maybe she's pleased as punch with her family. . .but I just can't imagine. . .:scared:
 
I don't know where she falls in that count, but I have a friend who has non-fertility-drug-assisted quintuplets; they're about twenty now, I think. :guilty: Yes, I know. I'll get in touch with her this week. It HAS been too long :(
 
At Epcot last week, I saw a woman pushing a double stroller. Next to her was a schoolage girl dressed as a princess, 4th or 5th grade I'd guess, pushing a single stroller. On the other side of the double stroller was another girl, same height, dressed as another princess. No stroller. We outpaced them and drew up. 2 identical twin girls with their mom and 3 little ones. Then the strollers and the little family turned. 3 identical little toddler girls were in those strollers.

I had this sudden, horrifying thought. So, mom got PG, found out she was having twins. All well and good. She gets them up, into school, decides to finish off their family. Lightening surely wouldn't strike twice!

Of course not, she got identical triplets this time!

Maybe she's pleased as punch with her family. . .but I just can't imagine. . .:scared:


I know many women with 2 sets of twins, and some with 3 - not uncommon, because there is a genetic factor. They say that identical twins are not genetic, but I also know women with 2 sets of identical twins.

I had 5 children in 6 years, and yes, pleased as punch! :cool1:
 
I'm not a physician, and I did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night :) but I don't see why identical twins wouldn't be genetic. Wouldn't/couldn't there be a tendency for fertilized eggs to split completely into two distinct embryos?
 
What's the greatest number of babies to be born at one time without the aid of fertility drugs, etc?

What's the greatest number of identical babies to be born at one time? I'm pretty sure I've heard of identical quads. Could have been identical triplets, with one egg splitting and then one of them splitting again.

I grew up with a girl whose first cousins were the ONLY set of identical Quads in the US at the time. (My mom always disses the IUD as a form of birth control as the Quads' mom delivered hers with them) We spent a fair amount of time with these girls. They were only a year older than me.

The Dionne quintuplets were IDENTICAL and conceived without fertility drugs. Theirs is a wretched story of exploitation.

Identical anything is NEVER due to fertility drugs. Fertility drugs only cause a woman to release more than the normal (one) number of eggs during a cycle. Identical multiples ALWAYS come from one embryo that splits. What I find interesting, is that depending on when it splits, the babies might share an amniotic sack or not. And they might be mirror twins or not.
 
I'm not a physician, and I did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night :) but I don't see why identical twins wouldn't be genetic. Wouldn't/couldn't there be a tendency for fertilized eggs to split completely into two distinct embryos?

They aren't genetic b/c you can't predict if the egg will split or not. Twins are on the mom's side of the family. Some women drop 2 eggs at a time which is inherited. That gives you fraternal twins. Identicals come when one egg splits and that can't be predicted, it is a freak of nature or an act of G-d, depending on your view. ;) However there are factors that help explain identicals, some have suggested that the older you get the weaker the eggs you carry are, thus the easier for them to split into twins.
I was 35 when I conceived my twins, maybe that explains it, maybe G-d just thought I needed them. Everyone wants to know if it runs in your family but identicals can't, so you just smile and say "They do now". The fact that my dad was a twin is not relevant, mens' sperm can't split an egg!
 
I have triplets who were naturally conceived. I have 2 girls and 1 boy. I was told they were fraternal, of course my son is, but it's really hard to tell the girls apart. I never had them tested to see if they were identical because I was told when they were in the womb that they were fraternal. I have a friend that has identical boys and when she was pregnant they told her she had identical twins and a fraternal. They did have them tested when they were born and they are identical. Of course, it's really hard to tell them apart.

So my triplets are fraternal and conceived without the aid of fertility drugs.
 


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