Question: lawyers, credit cards, and best course of action

[Rajah]

I know some people are going to answer "go talk to a lawyer" or in this case *another* lawyer, but it's late Friday afternoon and they're closed until Monday, and I'm looking for some form of direction to give my mom until then.

My dad left behind a substantial amount of credit card debt (most of which none of us knew about) and my mom's working toward handling that. But before she can even try to pay them off, the life insurance has to process.

She was also advised to talk to her lawyer about the credit cards to make sure none of them upped the rates or added unknown charges or stuff like that to cheat her out of money -- all of those have happened to friends and family members.

She just wants to pay everything off and get it over with, even though paying the whole thing off will wipe out about 1/2 of one of the life insurance policies. If the 3rd one (the good one) doesn't come through, that means she wipes out a *large* portion of what she has to live on until she can draw social security and retirement funds as surviving spouse. In the meantime, she medically can't hold up to a job even though she keeps saying she's going to have to find one, but is certain she's not eligible for social security disability (yes, she's applied).

Anyway, the lawyer wants to take all the cards and see if she's liable for all of them. He doesn't think she's liable for more than the few that have her name on them. The problem is, she doesn't *like* the idea of "weasling out" of debt, especially if the funds were for something she benefited from -- like the new TV he bought in December. (That's the other thing -- we have no idea what most of this money was spent on, nor have we been able to find out yet). But she doesn't want to be cheated by the CC companies either.

Well, for this guy to look through everything is going to drag things out another month or two at least (based on how long it's taking for Probate) -- another month or two during which the interet due are making the charges climb at an alarming rate.

*He's* saying "isn't it better to pay the lawyer $5000 to have him get her out of $X in CC debt" (value intentionally blanked out), her feeling is no, she's not comfortable with weasling out if the charges are legit, and she really doesn't want to end up taking this to a court battle or battle between lawyers (which, being the "glass is empty" (fully empty, even when it's half full ) person that she is, she's *positive* that if her lawyer tries to fight any of the debt, it'll drag out in a battle between lawyers).

Any suggestions? She's not happy with this lawyer or his staff, but they already have things rolling for probate and *in theory* that should be taken care of in about 2 weeks. She also doesn't like the idea of going up to him and saying "I don't like you any more, give me all my information back" until the probate is done (naturally, using more diplomatic terms) and taking things to a different lawyer who's going to charge her even more and drag things out even longer.

I've advised her to find a different lawyer that offers a free consultation and talk to them to see what *they* would charge and what they could promise and so on, since she doesn't like this guy.

She's of the opinion to just pay everything off next week when she can access the life insurance (assuming they don't pull yet ANOTHER (the *4th*) "Oh, you need to sign this bit of paperwork which we haven't sent you before you can access it" deal. ) But when there are cash advances of large sums that we can't find where the money went (he sure didn't make any purchases of the total amount of the cash advances that *we* can identify), I'm wondering if she should go ahead and pay the/a lawyer to investigate things.

Any other recommendations or advice?

 

[ScarlettO]

Why can't you contact each credit card company and get a list of all charges made in the lasr year or 2? That way you can see what the money was spent on. Could it be gambling...something that doesn't show up as a purchase, maybe?

 

[Rajah]

Because they won't release that info to us until after Probate. :/ We've tried that one.

 

[nealymouse]

When my Mom died she also had CC dept. Not a real lot but a few K's. My sister called each CC company as soon as the statement came in the mail. Told them my mom had died and they would have to pretty much get in line in order to be paid. ( we also had to wait for trust fund money, stocks ect. My mom had more then enought $$ to pay both of the cards off.

At that point both CC companies affored to settle at a much lower rate ( about 1/2 the full debt) We never asked for this it was offered and we took it but they did have to wait intill the 1st of the money came in.

We had an attorney but he is a family friend and let us do most of the work.He just guided us threw over the phone and every so often we went into his office to make sure it was all done. My sister was an account and knew it was simple enough. Simple yes but very time consuming and I was the runner so I was always having to go to court and file the legal papers.

I know this is so hard on you. I have read all your posts but never posted a reply. My heart has really gone out to you and I wish you and your Mom well.

 

[Rajah]

Thanks Beth. I wish these CCs had done the same. Some of them are stuck at as high as 20% interest. And they "won't lower it" (her phrasing), the most they'll do to "work with her" is not send a collection agency after her. :/

 

[nealymouse]

My sister did run into that with my moms brand new car. They would not budge. But we kept after them and they finally did. Dont stop hounding. You cant pay if you dont have the money.

 

[Rajah]

Thing is, she will have the money as soon as the life insurance finishes processing. It may be almost all she has to live on for the next 3-5 years, but it *is* there.

 

[Beauty]

Are they in just his name or both of their names?

My opinion which will cause a debate blah blah blah but still my opinion is bankruptcy....if she needs his insurance money to live on and to pay her bills to LIVE then bankrupt them. She had nothing to do with the debt and she needs to have money to live.

 

[nativetxn]

No advice for you sweetie. Just a {{{HUG}}} Hope this gets worked out in your mother's favor.

 

[Rajah]

I tried suggesting that to her once before.

BIG mistake. She is so against that she'd rather sell off everything she owns and put herself in the hospital by trying to work a job she physically can't keep up with.

(But to answer your question -- some are in both, most were in his alone, but TX is a community property state so in most cases she's liable, as near as we can tell)

 

[Beauty]

I hate that Tammi....I've seen to many people have their lifes and health ruined by to much debt. You know I do understand the concept that if you make the debt you need to pay it off....but when it comes down to so much that you can't live or you are physically sick because of it then its time to do something like that.

I'm not for bankruptcy in all situations, heck I'm not for it in the majority of situations but when it deals with something like what your mom has been through I am 100% for it.

{{{HUGS}}} to your family Tammi and sending prayers as well.

 

[Rajah]

Obviously, since I've already mentioned that option to her, I think it is an option to consider. Maybe not the right one *right now*, but one that should be considered, especially if the big insurance (which would be enough to let her live easily until she can draw the other income from dad's SS and stuff) doesn't come through.

 

[Growin'upDisney]

Rajah - I don't think the lawyers looking to see if she is liable is going to do anything but waster money on the lawyer. In a community property state spouses are liable for the debt of the other spouse, regardless of whose name is on the debt (unless they came to the marriage with the debt - this is called separate property). There are cases of joint credit where one spouse forges the name of the other to get joint credit and even though fraud was involved, because one spouse is liable they both are liable (except in extreme fraud cases). Unfortunately, its a very sticky situation.

The best advice I can give is to call the CC company back and don't speak to the first person on the phone. Ask to speak to someone in their Collections department or a manager in customer service. In probate these types of creditors do come last but if these are the only creditors you rdad has then they may be paid sooner than if there were car or mortgage loans involved or other "secured creditors".

This difference in your situation than in nealymouse's (as far as I can tell) is that there is a surviving spouse - If I am wrong then you may want to get more info from nealymouse. When there is a surviving spouse to look to then they are less inclined to make any special considerations. But you can always approach them with the idea that if they wait for probate to end there may not be enough to cover the debt owed to them and if they can work something out on the front end it may be more beneficial to them.

This next approach will work if she is older and will never need to get much credit on her own. Since she doesn't want to "weasel" out of the debt, have her pay the minimum amount each month, forever. The debt will never go down, but she won't be scraping by either and won't be "weaseling" out of anything.

Good luck in whatever comes from this.

 

[Beauty]

Okay I'm going to say this and then I'm not coming back to this thread because I don't want to turn it into an argument.....but calling bankruptcy weasiling is the most immature thing I have ever HEARD! Oh it makes me so angry.

Let me ask you this question....do you know a 38 year old man who spent his entire lifetime farming for the United States and then all of a sudden when the Govt. decided to start bringing in agriculture from overseas and the prices bottomed so much that he couldn't afford to pay his debts, much less his house payment and bills? I knew a man like this......you ask why I KNEW him because he fought and fought and fought to keep from taking bankruptcy. He worked 3 jobs and NEVER saw his family and finally he had a heart attack and died, the main reason given.....STRESS!!!!!!!

Let me tell you this.....if bankruptcy meant keeping my health and my family then you betcha I would take it. It isn't right to take it to get out of paying if you can pay it, but when you CAN'T PAY then you are certainly not WEASLING out of anything. From what I've read about Tammi's mother she is a very sweet person who is going through a HORRIBLE time. If the insurance money comes in and she is ABLE to pay off these debts and still have enough money to live on and be okay then yes she should, but from the way Tammi is talking some of the insurance may not come in which would put her mother in a very bad bind and she has already had some health problems and doesn't need more worry. No bankruptcy isn't the answer in every situation but in one like this I think its a very very reasonable thing to do.

 

[AirForceRocks]

Rajah, I'm very sorry for your loss, and I hope your mother gets some good advice to help her through this time. Having to worry about money after such a loss is terrible.

Beauty, I'm pretty sure that GrowinUpDisney only used the term "weasling" because Rajah had used it herself (I take it that was Rajah's mom's word for it). I don't think GUD was making any kind of moral statement or anything...

 

[dcgrumpy]

I think the reason Growin'upDisney put "weaseling" in quotation marks is because that is the word that Rajah used when discussing her mother's feelings on bankruptcy.

 

[Beauty]

I reread what GUD posted and I do admit to reading it wrong and I apologize for jumping on you, I was totally wrong.

As you can tell I lost a very very very close friend who was honestly the closest thing I ever had to a sibling. I think I was expecting for someone to put it down and I was ready to jump without reading all the way through the post.

Agan I apoloize and now that I re-read your post I see where I was 100% totally wrong in what I said to you. Although I still feel the same way about bankruptcy and always will.

 

[ScarlettO]

I like the idea of paying the minimum (like $25 a month) forever. She's paying the debt , but still not "cleaning out" her resourses, ie the insurance policy. One of my older widowed relatives is doing this with the huge medical debt that occured before her husband died.

 

[Rajah]

Nice thought (paying minimums) but she won't do *that* either. She wants it all *gone*.

 

[Beauty]

She sounds like my mother Tammi. She wants -0- debt as well. She pays everything off at the end of everymonth because she can thanks to daddy's insurance policy. He died 3 years ago at age 59. Mama says she doesn't care about the benefits of keeping credit she just wants everything paid for. She paid outright for her Tahoe in September. I don't guess I blame either one of them if paying it off is a possibility but for a lot of people that just isn't an option.

I think my mother, like us, are looking into the future when she retires in a year and moving out of this hell hole state we live in and leaving NOTHING behind.