Question for those who rent points

[sonofanarchy]

I'm a renter. I've done it for the past 6 or 7 years. I'm starting to see point rentals hit $13.50 - $14.00 on average, and some as high as $16.00 per point. Do you have a cut-off? Much like Disney Resort prices, is there a ceiling for you?

This isn't a knock against owners. I understand dues increase so point rentals have to increase. I just have a bad feeling that within a few years, the rental market is going to be dried up.

 

[jade1]

Wow. As an owner this is great news.

Kinda depends on your choices I suppose, size, location, amenities, if 2 families can split a 2BR etc.

I have rented before as well when short on points-$10 was always a steal for what you got IMO. For example the BWV and BCV studios are 10 to 20 points a night (except the 2 peak weeks)-so even $15 is $150 to $300 and no tax. At $10 it's $100 to $200. As an owner it's arguably $50 to $100 a night. This is one scenario US can't compete with IMO.

I just rented a BCV studio to a coworker for the dues, as the purchase was paid off over a decade ago. Also a BLT MK studio to my niece and fam with little ones-just loved it. Both were first time WDW visits, and part of the stays were offsite-could not believe the difference and are looking into resales.

They should have bought about 6 years ago as BWV was around $50 a point. Now its about $80, so they could have paid 6 years of dues ($30) plus the $50 purchase, and had $80 into an $80 asset and been staying in effect for free.

 

[DebbieB]

I would compare the prices. For example, I had a studio at BWV last November. It was over $400 at rack rate (incl taxes), $286 with a 35% AP discount. Or 15 points. At $15 a point, that's $225. So about $60 cheaper than the AP discount but no housekeeping and no cancellation.

Keep in mind that the rack rates will be going up too year by year.

 

[weswife]

We are renters as well! We really enjoy staying at all the villas! We have worked with wonderful owners! I must say this year I rented privately on here and it has been a wonderful experience! We will visit in Oct!

We are now thinking about resales. Just as someone mentioned we might as well pay on our own DVC membership. We plan on going to Disney for many years so its a win win for us!

 

[crisi]

I can't imagine why owners would have a ceiling - if someone was willing to give me $100 a point for my points to rent them, I'd take it.

There is probably a lower limit on how much you can expect points at the newer resorts to go for - those points have a much more expensive buy in - then the increases in dues over the past few years. So it makes sense that someone who has GFV or BLT points to rent is looking for more money. If they get it - then they've asked enough - if they don't, they've asked too much.

Likewise, there is an upper limit on how much people who rent points are willing to spend - I don't expect anyone to want to rent my points for $100 .

Brokers like David are helping set prices - there isn't any reason for anyone planning (i.e. not renting distressed points) to get any less than the $11 David will give them - and David can't get enough points at $11 - especially for the higher demand resorts. So if I'm not going to use David - I'm going to want more. David rents them out for $14 - but he has more customers than points - so if I have a BLT contract, I know David can't find an owner at $14 - I know I can charge $15 or $16 (I wouldn't try that with SSR points, but I would with VGF, VGC, Aulani or BLT for sure, and probably close to that if I had BWV or BCV and I was renting for Food and Wine).

 

[crisi]

Oh, I also don't think the rental market will dry up - because it more or less functions as an auction. I can ask $15 a point for BWV over Food and Wine - and if I don't get it, someone will offer me - say $13 - and I could choose to take it. When the recession hit, there were lots of bargain rentals, as a lot of people needed to rent their points for a year, and there were fewer people looking to rent. Its supply and demand - and if I've priced myself out for the demand, I can create demand lowering my price.

 

[sonofanarchy]

By renters I meant those who rent points from sellers. Obviously sellers don't have a ceiling.

 

[jade1]

By renters I meant those who rent points from sellers. Obviously sellers don't have a ceiling.

If I were flat out paying cash for my room, I would probably compare a studio to a Deluxe room-for the days I am interested in, and in resorts I am interested in.

Then I would get my best price from Disney. I think the ceiling for me would be about 75% of the Disney room including taxes etc.

So if BWI was $278 plus tax $300-I would not rent a BWV studio for over $225, at 15 points that's $15 per point.

 

[crisi]

By renters I meant those who rent points from sellers. Obviously sellers don't have a ceiling.

Doh!

I'd be less than what Jade is - I'd want a 30% discount off the discounted rack rate - DVC rooms are poor compared to the hotel side and there is risk (I'd rather have two beds). The exception would be if there was something I really wanted - like Hilton Head in the Summer. Or a Grand Villa - those are not comparable to hotel side rooms, and difficult to book at all on cash.

 

[sonofanarchy]

I'm not comparing the cost of renting points versus going through Disney. No doubt, renting points compared apples to apples is still going to be a better deal, and probably always will be. What I'm wondering is, do people that rent points from owners have a ceiling as to what they will pay per point? I would assume we all have a ceiling as to what we will pay Disney, and there's been much talk about how many are approaching (or have already approached) that mark. I've gotten to that point with Deluxe resorts through Disney. Sadly, for me, I'm getting very close with renting points as well. $10 was a heck of a bargain. $11 was very good. $12 was low enough to make me happy. $13 is where we're at and I'm pushing the envelope. $14 is what David charges, and I didn't want to go that high. $15, which many BLT and VGF owners are getting, is out of my ballpark.

 

[jade1]

I'm not comparing the cost of renting points versus going through Disney. No doubt, renting points compared apples to apples is still going to be a better deal, and probably always will be. What I'm wondering is, do people that rent points from owners have a ceiling as to what they will pay per point? I would assume we all have a ceiling as to what we will pay Disney, and there's been much talk about how many are approaching (or have already approached) that mark. I've gotten to that point with Deluxe resorts through Disney. Sadly, for me, I'm getting very close with renting points as well. $10 was a heck of a bargain. $11 was very good. $12 was low enough to make me happy. $13 is where we're at and I'm pushing the envelope. $14 is what David charges, and I didn't want to go that high. $15, which many BLT and VGF owners are getting, is out of my ballpark.

Makes perfect sense to me. Comes a point where you then need to turn to the price of a moderate or offsite etc I would think. I mean 30% off a "discounted" room is great-but not necessarily affordable. Sure you may get a BWV room for $225 ($200 plus tax effective rate), but if you can get a moderate for $150 or offsite for $75, or a house all week for under $1,000 it does require a decision.

Your kind of making a case for DVC ownership actually. Just prepaying your vacation "room" stays at WDW deluxe resorts. Like others have said-the dues never seem to go up enough to really matter-at least in comparison to hotel rates and new DVC point costs upfront. But that does require a significant investment/commitment and is not for everyone.

 

[sweetdana]

If I were flat out paying cash for my room, I would probably compare a studio to a Deluxe room-for the days I am interested in, and in resorts I am interested in. Then I would get my best price from Disney. I think the ceiling for me would be about 75% of the Disney room including taxes etc. So if BWI was $278 plus tax $300-I would not rent a BWV studio for over $225, at 15 points that's $15 per point.

I agree with this. I think season changes this a little. Off memory spring break at the bc was 50 points a night, so at 15$ that would be 750$ a night on a non cancelable room. That would be too steep/risk, for us. I would pay rack rate at FQ or at Poly, over this. I don't mind moderates, I know others do, or have 5, but for us we are okay there. I wouldn't rent for much more than I'd pay cash at a moderate.


I don't think 13$ is out of line based on dues/ market, and I would transfer in Blt/bc/ points for that. I would not transfer in ssr/ak/OKw or rent for that.

My 2 bedroom in early dec at old key west for 400$ a night .. (Verses) 1100$ I believe is a different story,

 

[ziravan]

Till recently, I would have said $13 would be the upper end of the private rental market. Why pay more as a renter if you know that for $14, you can get a guarantee from David's.

Based on that thinking, when I rented for my upcoming trip in Sept, I didn't even look at points going for more than $12. $12 is what I paid.

Now, I think that thinking was flawed. There was a recent thread (now locked so I won't go into details) about a renter from David's complaining about the no cancellation no change policy, and this opened my eyes. I think you CAN get more than $13 IF you offer reasonable flexibility (change names on ressies, or dates within use year of points, rerenting points - for a fee- if needed and if possible, etc.). Extra work, extra pay and something that addresses the basic discount on the points from retail: flexibility. If an owner offered more flexibility, within the usability of the points, I think he/she could command more.

I think owners could offer more, charge more. I think the market would support it.

 

[jade1]

I agree with this. I think season changes this a little. Off memory spring break at the bc was 50 points a night, so at 15$ that would be 750$ a night on a non cancelable room. That would be too steep/risk, for us. I would pay rack rate at FQ or at Poly, over this. I don't mind moderates, I know others do, or have 5, but for us we are okay there. I wouldn't rent for much more than I'd pay cash at a moderate.


I don't think 13$ is out of line based on dues/ market, and I would transfer in Blt/bc/ points for that. I would not transfer in ssr/ak/OKw or rent for that.

My 2 bedroom in early dec at old key west for 400$ a night .. (Verses) 1100$ I believe is a different story,

No way-not a studio anyway. Click on the DVC Points above. A 2BR yes.

Studios are around 20 points then-or $300 at $15 ($268 pretax effective). POLY would be around $750. I would take a 2BR at BCV over a room at the POLY any day. Actually I would take a studio at BCV over a POLY room, even at the same price-much less half. I would however pay 25% more for a BC room.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

One would assume that most everyone has a limit for the value the feel they get for staying onsite vs either offsite or not going at all.

But seeing that all things continue to go up in price I would not agree with the assessment that the rental market will disappear. It may for you but highly unlikely it would for all. Or those that decide it isn't of value can get replaced by new renters. If the market completely disappeared then there almost certainly would be a larger problem at the parks themselves.