Question for Teachers

[MommyJack]

I need some advise on whether to pursue an issue or not. My son is in the 5th grade and is an A student in math (B+ over all). Two weeks ago he comes home with a 79 on his math test. Without really looking at the test I laid into him: "What happened? You know this stuff. Math is your best subject. And C's are not acceptable..." Then the next morning I'm looking at the test and I noticed he only got one question wrong. Actually, it was a 2 part question, and he got the second part right. So I mention to him that I noticed that he got every question right but the one, and he says I know all my friends say I got robbed.

Please let me know what you think. It's been bothering me and I don't know if I should pursue it with her. I haven't ran the numbers, but I'm thinking this could be the difference between an A and B this term, unless he scores perfect on the rest of his work.

The test had a total of 11 questions, plus the first question had a part "a" and "b". He got part "a" of question 1 wrong. So I'm thinking how can half of one question be worth 20% of the test? I wrote the teacher a note asking her this, and she spoke with my son and then called and left a message on the machine. She explained it this way:

1. She miss-scored the test and would boost his grade by 4 points to an 83.

2. Since the question he got wrong had multiple answers (he had to give the factors of a number) she scored him wrong for each one he missed.

Her explanation made sense at the time and I was happy that he at least got a B-. Then I started to think about it, and I think her scoring/testing method is flawed. This is where I need teacher's opinions. Is it fair to weight one question so much more than the rest? This was the only question on the test that resulted in multiple answers. So if he got any other question wrong it would have been an A. Also, if a question has an "a" and "b" shouldn't the total of each part be worth half of the rest of the questions on the test? Otherwise shouldn't it have been broken into two separately numbered questions?

 

[agnes!]

I'm not a teacher and maybe my math is flawed but it seems that each question should be worth about 9% (technically 9.09%) so each part of the two-part question should be worth about 4.5%.

I still don't understand how getting half of one question wrong on an 11-part question quiz/test translates into getting a 79% ...

Did anyone else get the question right?

agnes!

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

It is not uncommon for a question with multiple parts to be weighted more than a question with only one part. She admitted to her mistake and changed the grade to a B. At this point I think you should let it go.

Also, at 5th grade, I would want the student to talk to me. Barring any special needs, at that age they need to start learning to handle these things on their own. There's nothing wrong with parent guidance, but they need to start showing independence.

Honestly, when I have a scoring rubric, there is a method to my madness I promise. While you can ask for clarification, I would stop short of accusing her of a flawed system.

 

[rigs32]

Is it fair to have different questions worth different amount of points? Sure! If the one question he got wrong should have taken as much time as 3 or 4 of the other questions, then yes.

I think the only thing I don't agree with for a student his age is losing credit for all parts if the mistake was made in the first part, but his subsequent wrong answers were predicated on the first incorrect answer.

 

[IDoDis]

I am an elementary teacher, but it sounds like your son is in middle school? I noticed when my DD got to middle school, the test questions were weighted differently. One question might be worth 15 points while easier questions were worth 5 points.

Either way, the score should add up to 100%. I'd ask the teacher for a breakdown on how many points that question was worth and why it was broken up into part A and part B if part B was also going to be broken down further and weighted so heavily. What would have happened if he missed part A and part B? Would he have gotten a D on the test, even though he got the other 10 answers correct? If the question was worth 20 points (10 points for part A and 10 points for part B) then he should have only missed 10 points for all of part B. But she took off 17 points.

Also, ask your DS to check with any of his friends to see how many points they were deducted on any of the other problems. See if it all adds up to 100%.

 

[WDWisTheBest]

I would not put too much emphasis on this with your child.

 

[gina2000]

Questions are weighed differently all the time....depending on the skill and the importance of the concept. Even SAT questions have different weights.

 

[disykat]

Questions are weighed differently all the time....depending on the skill and the importance of the concept. Even SAT questions have different weights.

I agree. Generally questions with higher level thinking are worth more than questions that are a simple operation. In many math curriculams, the tests are pre-made, as is the scoring rubric. I'm sure she'd be glad to share it with you if you are that concerned.

 

[abdmom]

I need some advise on whether to pursue an issue or not. My son is in the 5th grade and is an A student in math (B+ over all). Two weeks ago he comes home with a 79 on his math test. Without really looking at the test I laid into him: "What happened? You know this stuff. Math is your best subject. And C's are not acceptable..." Then the next morning I'm looking at the test and I noticed he only got one question wrong. Actually, it was a 2 part question, and he got the second part right. So I mention to him that I noticed that he got every question right but the one, and he says I know all my friends say I got robbed.

Please let me know what you think. It's been bothering me and I don't know if I should pursue it with her. I haven't ran the numbers, but I'm thinking this could be the difference between an A and B this term, unless he scores perfect on the rest of his work.

The test had a total of 11 questions, plus the first question had a part "a" and "b". He got part "a" of question 1 wrong. So I'm thinking how can half of one question be worth 20% of the test? I wrote the teacher a note asking her this, and she spoke with my son and then called and left a message on the machine. She explained it this way:

1. She miss-scored the test and would boost his grade by 4 points to an 83.

2. Since the question he got wrong had multiple answers (he had to give the factors of a number) she scored him wrong for each one he missed.

Her explanation made sense at the time and I was happy that he at least got a B-. Then I started to think about it, and I think her scoring/testing method is flawed. This is where I need teacher's opinions. Is it fair to weight one question so much more than the rest? This was the only question on the test that resulted in multiple answers. So if he got any other question wrong it would have been an A. Also, if a question has an "a" and "b" shouldn't the total of each part be worth half of the rest of the questions on the test? Otherwise shouldn't it have been broken into two separately numbered questions?

I'm a HS science teacher. I've also taught middle school, as well as university. Yes, it is possible for one question to be worth 20% of a test. It's not like he lost 20% for one wrong answer.

Also, it's 5th grade. No one, and I mean no one, cares if he gets an A, B, C in math. As a teacher, I'd be worried about a mom who "lays into" her child because of a 79%.

 

[fraggle551]

Is it fair to have different questions worth different amount of points? Sure! If the one question he got wrong should have taken as much time as 3 or 4 of the other questions, then yes.

I think the only thing I don't agree with for a student his age is losing credit for all parts if the mistake was made in the first part, but his subsequent wrong answers were predicated on the first incorrect answer.

My teachers always gave me credit in that situation. Their theory was that we knew how to correctly do the problem, knew all the steps and the right methods/formulas, but sometimes our numbers would be wrong. If that was the case, they usually gave us half credit.

 

[Agri]

My parents would have handled it the same way you did. And the truth is, it took me awhile to learn to stop and check things myself and go to the teacher on my own before consulting my parents first. Even for minor things, lots of times I would go to my parents first.

I really wish they would have told me to go to the teacher on my own with their concerns in the first place before voicing their opinions or getting involved.

How *I* think you should handle it? Show him how the scoring was wrong, so in the future he understands how a test is scored so he can tell if something is funky on his own. It's not hard math at all at his age and it would give him a starting point even if the questions are weighted differently (which is not uncommon at all).

ETA: My father would have lit into me for a 79%, too, and I was burnt out on school by the time I got to high school when what grade I got in math actually counted. He was so concerned and overbearing when it *didn't* count - elementary and middle school - that I was simply burnt out and no longer cared. He was more concerned about my grades than the problem behind the grade - whether I didn't know the material, had a bad day, etc. I had to fight for a break from school after high school and before college and due to various life events, I still have not gotten my college degree.

 

[MommyJack]

Also, at 5th grade, I would want the student to talk to me. Barring any special needs, at that age they need to start learning to handle these things on their own. There's nothing wrong with parent guidance, but they need to start showing independence.

Honestly, when I have a scoring rubric, there is a method to my madness I promise. While you can ask for clarification, I would stop short of accusing her of a flawed system.

Thank you, this is exactly the answer I was looking for. I will let it go. We're happy with the B.

I agree that my son needs to learn to "stand up" for himself. I was hoping that this situation would show him that it is OK to question (in a respectful way) if he thinks something is unfair. I will encourage him in the future to follow through for himself. He does tend to be shy and this is why I sent in the note myself.

I do want to say I was very impressed with his teacher that she took the time to call me after hours (6 pm) to answer my question.

 

[MommyJack]

Also, it's 5th grade. No one, and I mean no one, cares if he gets an A, B, C in math. As a teacher, I'd be worried about a mom who "lays into" her child because of a 79%.

I get that, but it's my theory that if you start them young then it will carry into high school and collage. Believe me, I know my son and what he's capable of. And I apologized when I realized that he only got one question wrong.

My question to you is: how bad do you think the grade should be for a parent to get concerned when you are dealing with a good student?

 

[palavra]

I get that, but it's my theory that if you start them young then it will carry into high school and collage. Believe me, I know my son and what he's capable of. And I apologized when I realized that he only got one question wrong.

My question to you is: how bad do you think the grade should be for a parent to get concerned when you are dealing with a good student?

I'm not the person you are asking, but I am a middle school teacher and the parent of a good student. Honestly, wouldn't get concerned over one grade even if it was a failing grade. We all have good and bad days. Sometimes students don't listen to directions correctly, can't concentrate for some reason or maybe they are just sleepy or in a bad mood. Being concerned is a lot differnet than "lit into him." And I say this as a parent as much as a teacher. My daughter brought home a 77 on a math test this year, and I know she knew the material. We talked about it, and suggested ways that she coud do better next time, and nothing else was said about it. Her math tests since then have been A's. Fwiw, I think the teacher explained her grading scale and admitted that she had misgraded it. I'm not really sure what else you want?

 

[MommyJack]

I appreciate all your answers. This is why I wanted opinions from teachers. I'm not a teacher, but know that there is a method to developing tests. I know that a poorly structured test can result in unfair grades and just wanted to hear some professional opinions. I don't want to be one of those parents who's on the teacher for every little thing. But I also want to make sure that I am advocating for my son. He's only 10, but in my town that's middle school. When I went to school (oh so long ago), 5th grade was still elementary school.

For those of you who think I was too hard on him. I will say again: I apologized to him for jumping to a conclusion before I had all the information. He accepted that. Also, perhaps "laid into him" was a poor choice of words. Maybe I should have said "I expressed my concern" that he got a 79 in a subject he usually aces.

 

[kimmar067]

My teachers always gave me credit in that situation. Their theory was that we knew how to correctly do the problem, knew all the steps and the right methods/formulas, but sometimes our numbers would be wrong. If that was the case, they usually gave us half credit.

....and that is precisely why I always deduct some points off any particular question rather than marking it completely 'incorrect'...

 

[MommyJack]

My teachers always gave me credit in that situation. Their theory was that we knew how to correctly do the problem, knew all the steps and the right methods/formulas, but sometimes our numbers would be wrong. If that was the case, they usually gave us half credit.

I agree, in this case he actually misread the question. His answer was actually correct for what he understood the question to be. Which explains why he got the second part right. He knew the material, this was simply a mistake. But there was no way to give him partial credit.

 

[MommyJack]

Also, it's 5th grade. No one, and I mean no one, cares if he gets an A, B, C in math.

Oh really? Then why exactly does his school hand out bumper stickers that say "Proud parent of a TMS honor student?"

 

[ksjayhawks]

Teacher here. The questions on the tests that I give do not always have the same point value. It depends on the questions and the type of answer it requires. However, I always indicate when a question is worth more points.

So, a two part question would be worth more than a question with one part. A question that required multiple answers--such as listing all the factors-- would also be worth more.

So, the teacher was not wrong in her grading method.

 

[gina2000]

Oh really? Then why exactly does his school hand out bumper stickers that say "Proud parent of a TMS honor student?"

Here's your reality. No university looks at middle school grades for college admission. However, middle school is a hugely important building block for study skills, perseverance, maturity, and self discovery. These skills are invaluable for a child navigating maturity. Don't underestimate the value of middle school but don't place an inordinate amount of importance on it either. It's a stepping stone, plain and simple.