question for adhd parents

[DLgal]

when you say that he makes random noises, is it possible he is having vocal tics? What med is he on? My son took Concerta for 3 years and it caused tics, and my friend's daughter was on Concerta for 5 years and then started having seizures, in addition to tics. I've heard plenty of stories about side effects from Concerta. Concerta works great, it was like a miracle drug for my son, but there is a history of it causing neurological issues. Thankfully most of my son's tics faded away within a year or two of stopping the medicine. My son is diagnosed with ADHD inattentive as well as autism.

I think I read that your son doesn't have an IEP? He needs an IEP ASAP! If you are in Pennsylvania I can help you find a free education advocate, otherwise maybe call 211 or see if you can find a local Facebook group regarding special education/ADHD in your state. Once you "lawyer up" and bring an education advocate for a meeting with the school, you will find that they will be much more helpful and attentive to both you and your son. IEP is best but even a 504 will help. It's much easier to get an IEP with an education advocate and I highly recommend reaching out for that help.

As for the punishment, I personally think that punishment for a kid who is dx with impulsive type ADHD is borderline abuse when the behaviors they are being punished for are related to their diagnosis. Not saying you can't correct the behavior, of course it should be corrected!, but teachers shouldn't be punitive about something that is out of that child's control they should be trying to teach them how to control those impulses and punishment is shown to be ineffective for that. And you didn't say for sure that your son is dx with it but it sure sounds to me like he struggles with impulsivity. My son has inattentive type ADHD, without hyperactivity, and my daughter has the more classic type of ADHD, with hyperactivity and impulsivity, and that kind of sounds like what your son has too.

That is true about meds causing neurological side effects.

OP, I hope your son is being managed by a child psychiatrist and not a pediatrician. These kinds if medications are best prescribed and managed by a psychiatrist. My son's pediatrician prescribed Adderall for his ADHD at age 9 and it caused TERRIBLE tics, anxiety, and skin picking. We switched him to Concerta and that works amazing for him with zero side effects. Everyone has different biology and some meds work much better than others at helping manage symptoms without causing any additional problems.

 

[dez1978]

when you say that he makes random noises, is it possible he is having vocal tics? What med is he on? My son took Concerta for 3 years and it caused tics, and my friend's daughter was on Concerta for 5 years and then started having seizures, in addition to tics. I've heard plenty of stories about side effects from Concerta. Concerta works great, it was like a miracle drug for my son, but there is a history of it causing neurological issues. Thankfully most of my son's tics faded away within a year or two of stopping the medicine. My son is diagnosed with ADHD inattentive as well as autism.

I think I read that your son doesn't have an IEP? He needs an IEP ASAP! If you are in Pennsylvania I can help you find a free education advocate, otherwise maybe call 211 or see if you can find a local Facebook group regarding special education/ADHD in your state. Once you "lawyer up" and bring an education advocate for a meeting with the school, you will find that they will be much more helpful and attentive to both you and your son. IEP is best but even a 504 will help. It's much easier to get an IEP with an education advocate and I highly recommend reaching out for that help.

As for the punishment, I personally think that punishment for a kid who is dx with impulsive type ADHD is borderline abuse when the behaviors they are being punished for are related to their diagnosis. Not saying you can't correct the behavior, of course it should be corrected!, but teachers shouldn't be punitive about something that is out of that child's control they should be trying to teach them how to control those impulses and punishment is shown to be ineffective for that. And you didn't say for sure that your son is dx with it but it sure sounds to me like he struggles with impulsivity. My son has inattentive type ADHD, without hyperactivity, and my daughter has the more classic type of ADHD, with hyperactivity and impulsivity, and that kind of sounds like what your son has too.

Exactly! thats my point. He can learn to control his behaviors, we all do to some extent. But to be punished when not being given the tools makes me mad. He is on Concerta. I'll look into that.

But what I find most disheartening is that in 3(?) years, not a single person has suggested a 504 or IEP evaluation. Not his pediatrician, with the diagnosis or when he wrote a note excusing behavior. Not the education consultant you paid. Not one of the prior teachers who worked well with him. There is some kind of disconnect going on. Request the evaluation. NOW. Not tomorrow, not next week, not after the holidays. In writing. Be sure to copy the special education or 504 director at his school as well as at the district level. Depending on the size of your school and district, those may be one and the same or different people, they may have different titles but still hold that responsibility; you should be able to find out from the website or a simple call to the district office.

When we were intitially getting him diagnosed. we did talk about it with his psychologist. And we have a few times during the years. But as long as the teachers he had were working with him, which they had been, there has been no need to do that formally. Apparently we are at the point where we do need to formally do that. It's been handled pretty well the last 3 years just by communicating with the teachers and all of us working together. This is the first real wall we've come up against since then in regards to getting him the help he needs.

 

[brockash]

You are right I should not need to pay someone. When I asked multiple times in 1st grade about getting an evaluation, they should have told me I needed to put it in writing and they'd do it. But instead they told me he was just looking for attention. They should have told me what I needed to do to make that happen. But I had no idea they had to do one, or what our rights were.
Never not once did I say he would not be able to control them ever. What I said was it's unfair to punish him for being unable to control them if they are not giving him the resources to learn to do so. And perhaps consequences work for you, I'm sure in one of your posts earlier you mentioned how each child is different and all have different triggers etc. Same applies here. What works for you doesn't work for everyone. I'm glad you'd be ok with your kid doing this. I'm not.

So just playing devils advocate here, but certainly an argument can and has been made many times about how 1 students disruptiveness effects the learning abilities of the other students in that class or can be another childs trigger.

Look, I'm not trying to argue with you and in fact I 100% agree that the lack of communication and not returning your calls/emails is unacceptable etc., but for the rest...I really think it's more productive and more helpful to your child to help them learn how to handle and adapt to those challenging situations as opposed to trying to tell the other ppl. why they're wrong (in your opinion) and trying to get them to accommodate your requests.

If it's something extreme or abusive etc., obviously that's different, but having a simple consequence for an action, in my opinion, is not a bad thing. I genuinely wish you good luck and hope things work out in a way that best meets your childs needs.

 

[neverlandsky]

What's your child's currency? For ours it was hands down early bedtime. Act up at school or home, it's early bedtime. 5 to 45 minutes early depending on the infraction. Earn minutes back or paroled if behavior was great at home. Could add minutues on if not so great at home. Extremely rare where minutes carried over to the next night. Plus majority of kids in general are sleep deprived as it is. Worked well in our household and kids went right to sleep early 99% of the time. If not, they could read in bed.

I would suggest a positivie approach in addressing issues and a positive change in school punishment. Taking away recess only backfires and spirals behavior. It's negative action for a negative behavior. Recess is an activity that should never been taken away because recess burns out pinned up energy. So what we came up with instead was community service of helping clean up the lunch room or bathrooms or graffiti cleanup/removal. Therefore it's a positive action having to help to clean up for a negative behavior. For implusive and outbursts/talking back, it was due to boredom. So with their teacher's permission we supplemented busy work so they wouldn't become a distraction in class and for their teacher. Oldest worked on vocab and writing. Youngest worked on advanced Math & reading non fiction books. Aka their opportunities in school they needed to work on according to their teachers.

Both our kids biggest complaints with school in general almost every year was that there is so much wasted time. We were always told the same every year, after Christmas break kids are always different. It was better in middle school because of the change of periods vs. being stuck with the same classroom peers and teachers all day. Plus there's way more independence compared to elementary where kids are being micromanaged. Where lets face it, majority of us hate being micromanaged as adults so can definitely see where it gets frustrating for kids.

 

[dez1978]

That is true about meds causing neurological side effects.

OP, I hope your son is being managed by a child psychiatrist and not a pediatrician. These kinds if medications are best prescribed and managed by a psychiatrist. My son's pediatrician prescribed Adderall for his ADHD at age 9 and it caused TERRIBLE tics, anxiety, and skin picking. We switched him to Concerta and that works amazing for him with zero side effects. Everyone has different biology and some meds work much better than others at helping manage symptoms without causing any additional problems.

His main dr we deal with is a child psychologist. He then sends reports to his ped who prescribes the meda. His psychologist has been amazing. He doesn't push meds immediately, and was great trying other things before we finally medicated him. He's great with telling us how to talk to the school and when and what to ask for when we;ve needed to. And he kind of reminds me of Bill Nye the science guy lol.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

he's also a 10 year old little boy who shouldn't have to walk around the edge of the playground for 30 min while his friends play, or miss out on the holiday party as a punishment while hes struggling to learn those coping mechanisms. If a kid with dyslexia was struggling with a reading assignment, they wouldn't have to walk laps until they figured out how do work around that.

I think what at least some of us are saying is IF this is a normal punishment that other kids get it's not going to be looked at as unfair. Other kids go with it IF that's what the school normally does. You're right if a kid with dyslexia was struggling wouldn't also but if the school doesn't have that documented 504, IEP it can be a slippery slope for them to constantly vet all the kids and try to figure out how to deal with them on each and every thing that's why 504 and IEP exist. I think pretty much most of us would agree if these consequences were done after the 504 and IEP with the knowledge that it has the potential or liklihood to make the problems worse it's a failure on the school.

I don't know whether I agree with walking around I guess I sorta understand the school may think normally this is a way for kids to get out their energy/calm down but when there's an underlying reason for it that may not work.

When we were intitially getting him diagnosed. we did talk about it with his psychologist. And we have a few times during the years. But as long as the teachers he had were working with him, which they had been, there has been no need to do that formally. Apparently we are at the point where we do need to formally do that. It's been handled pretty well the last 3 years just by communicating with the teachers and all of us working together. This is the first real wall we've come up against since then in regards to getting him the help he needs.

I think it's just a reverse order of things going on. The conversation would probably be a lot different (or maybe I'm just speaking for myself) if the 504, IEP was already existing and you were still having problems. As is there's a lot of expectation on the school without those and I guess I understand both sides, yours as a mom seeing your son experiencing issues at school and the school who is likely between a rock and a hard place only made this much worse by a global pandemic. That formal documentation should have been there long ago even if the teachers were on the same page with you and your son. It was always a possibility that a new teacher would come along (teachers retire, teachers have life events like pregnancy where they are gone for a while, and sadly with the pandemic teachers have died) as well as the school opting to do things differently at some point and the whole process that which had been smooth so far is now not so smooth.

Hopefully things improve if/when that formal part starts

 

[dez1978]

really think it's more productive and more helpful to your child to help them learn how to handle and adapt to those challenging situations as opposed to trying to tell the other ppl. why they're wrong (in your opinion) and trying to get them to accommodate your requests.

Gee, I'd have never thought to try that... Good grief. Do you really think I'm just at home igoring all these things leaving it up to the school to teach him those things? We do try those things. I can try to teach him those things and also be mad at the school for punishing those behaviors instead of trying to teach him as well. The punishment will only lead to more negative behaviors for him. There is no amount of punishment that will lead him to decide to change something he's not aware that he's doing. And heaping punishment upon punishment will just lead to him giving up entirely.

 

[lanejudy]

When we were intitially getting him diagnosed. we did talk about it with his psychologist. And we have a few times during the years. But as long as the teachers he had were working with him, which they had been, there has been no need to do that formally. Apparently we are at the point where we do need to formally do that. It's been handled pretty well the last 3 years just by communicating with the teachers and all of us working together. This is the first real wall we've come up against since then in regards to getting him the help he needs.

Unfortunately, hindsight is 20-20, but that was exactly the time to do the formal process. Time was on your side. The teachers worked with him anyway at that point, and the evaluation process is going to take time (literally, it's going to take a couple more months of the current situation before they even complete the eval and begin to make a plan). Those teachers who worked well with him could have provided input to the process, gotten him officially on record as having needs and what "worked." Instead, what you've created is a situation where the school thinks he doesn't need accommodation because you haven't officially requested it for several years. That document moves with the child -- grade to grade, teacher to teacher, school to school. Good luck and I hope your son gets assistance that helps him show how terrific he can be.

 

[Lumpy1106]

Gee, I'd have never thought to try that... Good grief. Do you really think I'm just at home igoring all these things leaving it up to the school to teach him those things? We do try those things. I can try to teach him those things and also be mad at the school for punishing those behaviors instead of trying to teach him as well. The punishment will only lead to more negative behaviors for him. There is no amount of punishment that will lead him to decide to change something he's not aware that he's doing. And heaping punishment upon punishment will just lead to him giving up entirely.

Agreed. My ADHD college frosh was in preschool when "time outs" were the thing. Those never worked. Go sit still because you are not able to sit still...I mean, think about that for a sec.

You've said you do not have an iep for a couple of different reasons. I'm going to suggest you go ahead and get one anyway. Reason being, the schools have entire departments devoted to helping kids with ieps. We put off doing it for my DD16 with Asperger's because we did not want her treated differently. She spiraled into depression when the COVID shutdowns kept her at home so we got one for her to help with that. We were amazed at the number of services the iep opened up to her. ieps are not just for kids who are struggling with grades, and you can pick and choose which services you actually take advantage of. It was well worth the extra effort for us and we should have done it a lot sooner.

 

[Lilsia]

So just playing devils advocate here, but certainly an argument can and has been made many times about how 1 students disruptiveness effects the learning abilities of the other students in that class or can be another childs trigger.

Look, I'm not trying to argue with you and in fact I 100% agree that the lack of communication and not returning your calls/emails is unacceptable etc., but for the rest...I really think it's more productive and more helpful to your child to help them learn how to handle and adapt to those challenging situations as opposed to trying to tell the other ppl. why they're wrong (in your opinion) and trying to get them to accommodate your requests.

If it's something extreme or abusive etc., obviously that's different, but having a simple consequence for an action, in my opinion, is not a bad thing. I genuinely wish you good luck and hope things work out in a way that best meets your childs needs.

I don't think that the issue here necessarily that the child got disciplined for talking out. It is more about one the lack of communication from the teacher, and two that this punishment doesn't seem to fit the crime. To have him miss all of recess for talking out of turn is extreme. Couple that with the amount of times that the teacher did this making it so he cannot go to the Christmas party is ridiculous. None of the child's offenses are to the level where he should excluded from the holiday party because of them. This is clearly a case of the punishment does not fit the crime.

 

[Lumpy1106]

Unfortunately, hindsight is 20-20, but that was exactly the time to do the formal process. Time was on your side. The teachers worked with him anyway at that point, and the evaluation process is going to take time (literally, it's going to take a couple more months of the current situation before they even complete the eval and begin to make a plan). Those teachers who worked well with him could have provided input to the process, gotten him officially on record as having needs and what "worked." Instead, what you've created is a situation where the school thinks he doesn't need accommodation because you haven't officially requested it for several years. That document moves with the child -- grade to grade, teacher to teacher, school to school. Good luck and I hope your son gets assistance that helps him show how terrific he can be.

Love this, and will only add it's not too late. Earlier is better, later is still a really good idea, and yes, it takes time.

 

[MrsCobraBubbles]

Exactly! thats my point. He can learn to control his behaviors, we all do to some extent. But to be punished when not being given the tools makes me mad. He is on Concerta. I'll look into that.


When we were intitially getting him diagnosed. we did talk about it with his psychologist. And we have a few times during the years. But as long as the teachers he had were working with him, which they had been, there has been no need to do that formally. Apparently we are at the point where we do need to formally do that. It's been handled pretty well the last 3 years just by communicating with the teachers and all of us working together. This is the first real wall we've come up against since then in regards to getting him the help he needs.

It definitely sounds like it needs to be escalated, I'm glad you are advocating for your son. I have worked in schools for the last few years, with special educaton students, and sadly they seem to follow the old adage, 'the squeaky wheel gets the grease'. Unless your kid is disrupting class or you are in the principal's ear, advocating for your kid, they tend to do as little as possible.

IEP is better because it guarantees interventions for your son. 504 plans can only make accommodations and with a 504 plan your rights to make decisions regarding your son's accommodations are not protected and the school district can change their 504 plan at any time without your consent. What I have seen happen is when the school is short-staffed (and they are now, with COVID) they will change the accommodations due to lack of staff. They can't do that to a kid with an IEP, they would have to hire more staff or pay you money to arrange for services yourself if the school isn't able to provide them.

Every state handles things differently, but the state of PA has the Office of Behavioral Health, Bureau of Mental Health services which provides free education advocates to parents seeking an IEP for their child. Whatever state you live in, I'd start looking for an advocate by searching for something like that, because your state may also provide free advocates. I wish you good luck with your son, I hope you can get something in place soon.

 

[DLgal]

His main dr we deal with is a child psychologist. He then sends reports to his ped who prescribes the meda. His psychologist has been amazing. He doesn't push meds immediately, and was great trying other things before we finally medicated him. He's great with telling us how to talk to the school and when and what to ask for when we;ve needed to. And he kind of reminds me of Bill Nye the science guy lol.

That's great, but a psychologist isn't a medical doctor and they aren't experts at psychotropic medication side effects profiles. Neither are pediatricians. I highly recommend finding a child psychiatrist to manage your son's meds. The psychologist can help with therapy and behavioral interventions.

 

[tcufrog]

I'm not an expert but I have a mom who has ADHD, a sister who is a Special Ed teacher and has ADHD, and DS14 who has ADHD and high functioning Autism. When he was younger he had sensory issues that were helped through occupational therapy when he was a toddler.

Here's my thoughts:

1. I noticed that he was evaluated by someone who specializes in ADHD. Did the person do a full, holistic evaluation or did he just evaluate for ADHD? The reason I ask that is because the most recent studies have shown that more people than expected have more than just ADHD. When my son was evaluated, we met first with a developmental pediatrician who took our family's case history. Then my DH and I, his teachers, and his pediatrician were given extensive diagnostic paperwork to fill out. Finally, he met for 2 half days with a diagnostician. The resulting report was very thorough and incredibly thick. His teachers told us that they suspected he had Aspergers, and they were right. What we didn't realize was that he also has ADHD. I have friends whose kids weren't evaluated as thoroughly and they later discovered that their child's diagnosis was incomplete.

2. What sort of things is your child doing before school to burn off energy? Some of the things that have helped my son are bike riding, running, jump roping, walking the dog, swinging, and jumping on a trampoline. It really helps him regulate himself and he's starting to seek them out when he needs him.

3. You need to have a proper plan and support team at school, which you don't have. Several friends of mine who had no luck approaching the the school districts themselves had much more luck when she hired an advocate. Your psycologist may be able to help with that.

 

[lovin'fl]

Hello. My 10 yr old has ADHD. He's medicated and has really come a long way in the last 3 years. His biggest struggles are controlling his emotions and the whole hyper part lol. Like he can't sit still and when hes concentrating he just makes random noises, not even realizing he's doing it. I've been trying to talk to the school about it but his teacher doesn't respond. Apparently this last week he's started losing recess because of it. Like yesterday a teacher said "better safe than sorry" and he said "oh my dad says that all the time" Bam had to walk laps the whole recess. I get that kids have to learn not to disrupt the class, and I would 100% understand if the things he said were mean or disrespectful, but they aren't. Am I wrong to be mad? Like, I'm trying to work with the school but they won't even respond when I ask how he's doing. I only know about this because he had a full on melt down about it last night.

I am sorry. My son, now 25, was the same. And his school was the same (was in MD). And he even had a 504 plan but they ignored it. It was a tough time. Got worse and worse as he aged too. HS was a nightmare, sorry to say. I never figured out how to handle it. He graduated with crap grades and did 2 years at community College in hotel management and now is a hotel front desk manager in Miami. He survived it but was not an easy ride. Man, I could tell you some stories (detentions and then suspensions and the reasons...even had a long term one where I had to home school him for a semester). The anxiety when the phone rang and we saw the school on the caller ID. Was the worst period of my life.

Two things I wish we did...one was to get an IEP. They have to follow those. Was told he wouldnt qualify so we never did it. I hesitated to even do the 504 since I was worried about his record and getting into college but shouldn't have worried about that at all. Hindsight!?!?

And, sorry to say, I also wish we never did meds. He had trouble sleeping and having an appetite which I think contributed to his emotional stuff (he would just lose it at home with us and have blow ups...I'd call tantrums). We tried all the meds and different dosages. But they all messed with his sleeping and eating, just some worse than others so we went with the lesser of the evils (focalin) but still wasn't good. He stopped meds at like 16 (his choice) and was much much better after, as far as the tantrums and eating and sleeping (he still didn't focus on his school work). Almost a different person though. Wish we never did the meds. But who knows...maybe he would have had an even worse go if we didn't.

 

[Lilsia]

I am sorry. My son, now 25, was the same. And his school was the same (was in MD). And he even had a 504 plan but they ignored it. It was a tough time. Got worse and worse as he aged too. HS was a nightmare, sorry to say. I never figured out how to handle it. He graduated with crap grades and did 2 years at community College in hotel management and now is a hotel front desk manager in Miami. He survived it but was not an easy ride. Man, I could tell you some stories (detentions and then suspensions and the reasons...even had a long term one where I had to home school him for a semester). The anxiety when the phone rang and we saw the school on the caller ID. Was the worst period of my life.

Two things I wish we did...one was to get an IEP. They have to follow those. Was told he wouldnt qualify so we never did it. I hesitated to even do the 504 since I was worried about his record and getting into college but shouldn't have worried about that at all. Hindsight!?!?

And, sorry to say, I also wish we never did meds. He had trouble sleeping and having an appetite which I think contributed to his emotional stuff (he would just lose it at home with us and have blow ups...I'd call tantrums). We tried all the meds and different dosages. But they all messed with his sleeping and eating, just some worse than others so we went with the lesser of the evils (focalin) but still wasn't good. He stopped meds at like 16 (his choice) and was much much better after, as far as the tantrums and eating and sleeping (he still didn't focus on his school work). Almost a different person though. Wish we never did the meds. But who knows...maybe he would have had an even worse go if we didn't.

I agree about the meds, those should be a very last resort. I would look to diet and other outlets first before going to medication. I can't imagine being medicated your whole childhood.

 

[mjkacmom]

I agree about the meds, those should be a very last resort. I would look to diet and other outlets first before going to medication. I can't imagine being medicated your whole childhood.

My son has been taking focalin since 12, his dose had increased in the past 12 years and he’s had no negative effects except appetite, which works in his favor because he’s always had a slow metabolism (unlike his skinny sibling). DH is definitely undiagnosed ADD. There are plenty of kids who are medicated in their childhood.

 

[tcufrog]

We tried so many things before we put DS14 on meds. Meds weren’t the total solution but they made a huge difference. My son rebelled against them for awhile until he realized how much they helped. His psychiatrist tells him at the end of every appt that he can’t solely rely on the meds and that he needs to make an effort too.

 

[dez1978]

I agree about the meds, those should be a very last resort. I would look to diet and other outlets first before going to medication. I can't imagine being medicated your whole childhood.

It’s no different than taking allergy meds every day, or insulin or any other meds required on a daily basis. Don’t come here judging meds. Pretty sure a majority of people use meds after they’ve everything else. And furthermore, being medicated and successful is 1000x better than being unmedicated and miserable, bullied, depressed etc. You don’t get to decide what someone else’s medical decisions are nor do you get to judge them.

 

[tcufrog]

It’s no different than taking allergy meds every day, or insulin or any other meds required on a daily basis. Don’t come here judging meds. Pretty sure a majority of people use meds after they’ve everything else. And furthermore, being medicated and successful is 1000x better than being unmedicated and miserable, bullied, depressed etc. You don’t get to decide what someone else’s medical decisions are nor do you get to judge them.

The way I helped DS14 understand why he takes ADHD meds is this:

The brain is an organ, just like any other organ. Sometimes it has problems that require medicine. You wouldn't tell a person not to take heart medicine. They might be able to make lifestyle changes that help reduce the problem but that doesn't mean that they may not still need the medicine too.