Question about timeshares

[A&CsMom]

I saw an add for a 2 bed timeshare at Sheraton's Vistana Resort for sale by someone who lives near me for what I think is a good price. We have been going to Orlando area every year for the last 3 years. What is the deal with this, and how does it work? Any advice or information would be appreciated.

 

[ldo]

tug2.et is a BB like disboards for timeshare owners. It has a wealth of information. I highly recommend reading posts on TUG for at least a few months before buying a timeshare. Vistana is a nice property which might (or might not) be for you. If you do it right, timesharing can be a cost effective way to vacation. Done wrong, it can be very frustrating.
Good Luck, Elaine (timeshare owner)

 

[A&CsMom]

The first question I have come across is why pay for a timeshare and then pay for yearly maintenance fees which amount to almost what it would cost to rent the week from someone else? Why not just rent?

 

[TotoToo]

The first question I have come across is why pay for a timeshare and then pay for yearly maintenance fees which amount to almost what it would cost to rent the week from someone else? Why not just rent?

Because you buy at resale, as the original poster wants to do, which is a huge savings over timeshare developer sale prices. Then you pay the annual fees - usually somewhere between $600-$900 in Orlando including taxes. For that you get a 2 or 3 (or in some cases larger) bedroom condo with a full kitchen, living area, dining room, wash machine, etc at a resort that offers activities, pools and much more - all for an average cost of under $1000/week. You can't get a decent hotel room - forget a 2 or 3 bedroom condo - for that. Plus once you own you know what resort and maybe even what unit and dates you'll have every year and be able to plan on it rather than hoping to get something to rent.

I guess you've never been in one of the nicer timeshares such as Vistana if you have to ask why you'd do that rather than rent. It isn't a vacation in a cramped room anymore but a week in your Florida home you can enjoy every year. We don't even need to go to the parks anymore to enjoy ours.

 

[Brian Noble]

You are asking the right questions!

If you can reliably rent *the same unit and week* for cash anywhere close to the MF cost of the week, don't buy it. In fact, paying slightly higher cash rates is still good, for two reasons. First, there is an opportunity cost associated with purchasing the week. Second, cash is more flexible than a timeshare.

As TotoToo points out, though, you want to compare apples to apples. Yes, you can get a Value Disney room for the price of those annual fees, but that's a 260 square foot box, not a 1200 square foot 2BR condo with kitchen facilities. Likewise, you can rent in September pretty cheaply, but if you want to go during the peak of spring season---roughly mid-February through Easter Weeks---well, that's going to cost more.

 

[MickeyMickey]

The first question I have come across is why pay for a timeshare and then pay for yearly maintenance fees which amount to almost what it would cost to rent the week from someone else? Why not just rent?

Exactly, we go in the offseason and have stayed at the Vistana Villages and Bonnet creek 3 times in the last 3 years never paying over $700 for the week. These are both new resorts, in 10 years when the newness wears off and they are starting to get rundown we won't "own" therefore will be able to stay at a newer place. Not to mention if you want to skip a year you are still stuck paying maintenance fees even if your unit is paid for. For me a timeshare makes absolutely no sense.

 

[disneysteve]

The first question I have come across is why pay for a timeshare and then pay for yearly maintenance fees which amount to almost what it would cost to rent the week from someone else? Why not just rent?

Because you buy at resale, as the original poster wants to do, which is a huge savings over timeshare developer sale prices. Then you pay the annual fees - usually somewhere between $600-$900 in Orlando including taxes.

TotoToo - I think the point of A&CsMom's question was why pay anything to purchase a timeshare when you can rent a similar (or even the very same) property for the same amount or less than the annual fee. That way, you aren't tied to a particular resort. We just got back from Disney last week. We rented a 2-bedroom, 2-bath timeshare unit through Skyauction. We paid $286 for the week. It wasn't at Vistana, but it was very nice, spacious, clean and modern. We've stayed there 3 of the last 4 years. Buying at any price just doesn't make sense to us.

 

[calgarygary]

Hopefully you are visiting tug to learn about timeshares. Prior to purchasing a ts, it is very important to do your research and education. Specifically with Vistana, it is important to know which section, is there a special assessment are fees current and does your friend own it free and clear. Compare what you think is a good price with sales at ebay as you may find a better price. Although we own at Vistana Villages, if someone were to ask me is Orlando a good place to own, I would normally suggest buying elsewhere where the maintenance fees are lower as Orlando is overbuilt and very easy to trade into. One of the great advantages to owning a ts though is the access to getaway vacations at a very low cost. For example, I can get a one bedroom at Marriott's Grande Vista for $394 checking in on Black Friday or staying at the Royal Sands in Cancun for $324 for a week.

 

[TotoToo]

TotoToo - I think the point of A&CsMom's question was why pay anything to purchase a timeshare when you can rent a similar (or even the very same) property for the same amount or less than the annual fee. That way, you aren't tied to a particular resort. We just got back from Disney last week. We rented a 2-bedroom, 2-bath timeshare unit through Skyauction. We paid $286 for the week. It wasn't at Vistana, but it was very nice, spacious, clean and modern. We've stayed there 3 of the last 4 years. Buying at any price just doesn't make sense to us.

Timeshares work for some and aren't a good fit for others. They work for us because we want the most in demand times (Holidays, summer - when school is out) and we want it in a 2 or 3 bedroom unit in a great location. That combination is hard to find for rent or the rent far exceeds the annual fees. If you want the lesser demand times and don't care which resort then renting can certainly work and can be, but isn't always, cheaper.

If you don't plan to visit the area almost every year then a week based timeshare may not be the right choice. There are points based systems such as Wyndham of Bonnet Creek fame that let you choose from hundreds of resorts in different locations each use year. If you want to visit many different areas that can be a better choice. Or if you prefer to pay as you go and have no assurance of what you'll get then renting hotels, condos, homes or timeshares is another way to go. There is no right or wrong answer. We would never go back to hotels after enjoying timeshare vacations but others may not have the same opinion.

 

[3DisneyGals&1Grumpy]

Just an FYI...
I am a Vistana owner. For our unit the dues go up in price about $100 every year.

Also there is a major renovation project going on in most of Vistana which means MORE dues in addition to our annual dues for the next two years. I can't remember the exact amount for our unit but it is around $2000. That is one of the reasons you will see alot of Vistana resales pretty cheap right now because the first payment is due in January.

While it is nice to stretch out in two bedroom, have a full kitchen, and throw in load of laundry before we hit the parks, it also has a few cons too.

We can often find "On Property Disney deals" cheaper than our maintenance fees. It is not quite as easy to exchange as the sales people will tell you unless you are willing to plan very last minute or very far in advance. Also it is very difficut to resale them once you buy one.
As our children get older and we spend more time in the parks we find that we are adding more "On Property Days" to our vacation.

While we enjoy Vistana and think it is one of the top timeshares in Vistana we would not buy it again. They are too easy to rent cheaper.

Owning a timeshare is definitely NOT an investment. Be sure to do your research.
Good Luck!

I have only been interrupted by my kids about a million times while trying to post so I hope this makes sense!

 

[A&CsMom]

Thanks everyone for your input. If we could just pay for the initial timeshare I think it would be a good investment for us, because we love vacations, but the maintenance fees are the part that turns me off. We like to go during less busy times and will continue to pull our kids out of school to do so, so I don't think this is a good option for us due to the cost. I have to say I also enjoy the "search" every year for a different place to stay, and for a good deal. So far we have stayed in a hotel, rented two different pool homes (one good, one not so good), and next we are renting a townhome in a resort for another different type of vacation. I think we are less discriminately in terms of what we expect then some people, and depending on our budget for a given trip, we will look for our lodging choice accordingly. Thanks again everyone, it was really great getting different points of view.

 

[disneysteve]

I think we are less discriminately in terms of what we expect then some people, and depending on our budget for a given trip, we will look for our lodging choice accordingly.

One other factor for us is who is coming with us. Some years, it is just the 3 of us. Some years, my MIL has come. A couple of times my mother and MIL came. Next year, my mother and cousin might come. So the number of people influences what size accomodation we need.

 

[Noreen411]

Hi

My husband and I own a 2 bedroom / 2 bath villa in the Lakes section of Vistana.

They are in the process of doing a major renovation and we have to pay additional fees on top of our regular yearly maintenance bill.

We bought Vistana close to 10 years ago and although initially very nervous about it, it has turned into a great thing for us.

If you own in either the Lakes or Cascades sections (the two newer sections of the resort) your villa is worth a certain amount of options. We don't have to stay in a two bedroom for a week. We can stay in a one bedroom and have two or more separate trips. Or we can have one longer trip in a one bedroom. There is flexibility in how you use your villa. I like that it is not a fixed week and you can go whenever you want (provided there is availability).

Having the timeshare we've invited friends and family to come with us to Disney and experience a great vacation that they may not have otherwise been able to do.

Having extra space to spread out is great. I enjoy having the kitchen to be able to have a quick breakfast before heading to the parks. I like being able to freeze a bottle of water and bring it with me and have ice cold water during the day. I like being able to go in my private jacuzzi in the bedroom at the end of a long day touring the parks. Being able to come home with clean clothes is also a plus. There are so many other great things about Vistana that I really love.

I've also found over the years that the staff at Vistana is great. Any problems, and sometimes there are things that come up, are quickly resolved to your satisfaction. On our recent trip after touring the parks, I wanted to go into the Jacuzzi. The stopper wouldn't work and the water kept draining. It was almost 11:30pm and I called the front desk. I expected them to tell me someone would come to fix it tomorrow, but I was pleasantly surprised when they said someone would come by to fix it within 1/2 hour. 15 minutes later there was a knock on the door and the Jacuzzi was fixed. It's little things like this that you remember.

That being said, I'm a Disney fanatic and also spend time staying at the Disney Resorts. I love being eligible for Extra Magic Hours. If I had known about DVC before I bought Vistana, I probably would have bought there. However, I think you get more bang for your buck at Vistana.

Even though there are yearly maintenance fees to pay in addition to paying for the timeshare itself, when you think about booking your trip it's easy to think that the accommodations are "free" since it's already paid for. Hotels are a big part of a vacation expense and not having that expense makes it seem like the trip is cost effective.

Like another poster said, you have to figure out what's right for you and your family. But my two cents is that we are very happy with the timshare.

If you have any questions I'll be happy to try to help.

Noreen

 

[disneysteve]

Even though there are yearly maintenance fees to pay in addition to paying for the timeshare itself, when you think about booking your trip it's easy to think that the accommodations are "free" since it's already paid for. Hotels are a big part of a vacation expense and not having that expense makes it seem like the trip is cost effective.

True. That's another negative with timeshares. So many people post here at DIS saying their accomodations were free because they are DVC members. Of course they weren't free. Far from it. But people somehow block out the thousands of dollars they spent upfront and the hundreds they pay each year.

 

[tednvon]

For us, the math was very simple and made it very clear why there is such an overhead to sell time shares why these companies can give out the "freebees" to the thousands of people every week taking the tours.

Here's the rough math:

Price of one week...15K conservative...and sell that to someone on a 10 year loan at 7-8% and now your 15K is about 20K!

appx construction cost for 2/2 condo....80-90K tops

Sell just 40 weeks at 15k and gross 600K...yes 600K for a 2/2 or 3/2 condo

Now stick everyone with 500 to 800/ year "fee" and you have made over 1000% profit. No wonder they can give away breakfast and one day Disney tickets day after day....cuz those who buy pay for every nickle of the perks and the salaries off all those sales people.

Our recommendation is take the 15K, invest it in nice 5% CD and you will have $750/year to find a GREAT 3/2 condo in Emerald Island or Windsor Palms, or add 3 to 400 for a great two bedroom from and owner in Maui or Ohau.

If and only if, you have 15K or so of totally disposable cash so you pay NO interest on a loan, and you want a one phone call vacation vs. using the internet and boards like the Dis, then go for it.

I know I am a little opinionated about this, but I believe time shares are one of the worst investments a person can make if they are on any type of budget. Why do think there is such a huge resale business?

Do the math and think very hard about all the money involved...

Ted

 

[swilshire]

We have been timeshare owners since 1996. A rough estimate of our cost when you include all of the maintenance fees, exchange company fees, etc is about $100 a night. There are times and places, such as Orlando in the off-season, where I could probably rent for that amount or less (don't forget to include the taxes on rentals when you're comparing).

On the other hand, there are other times when we stay somewhere for FAR less than the going rate. Nantucket Island, Boston, England, Scotland, Hawaii. We've stayed in some pretty incredible places, usually in 2br units since there are six of us, for huge bargains.

There are lots of ways to maximize your ownerships, and the advice above to visit TUG is an excellent one. I've become a much more informed owner since discovering them. For example, we own a three bedroom lockout at Mystic Dunes week 52. This year, we'll be there starting 12/29. Easy to get the high demand week we own. Just had to make one phone call. We'll use the two bedroom part and deposited the one bedroom part with an exchange company. So for about $1000, we'll have this week and another one somewhere else at another time.

If we weren't tied to school schedules, we could/would travel off-season and might make different decisions. For us, though, this has worked out great. Our only problem is that we own six weeks which really generate nine - ten total vacation weeks and we just don't have enough time off to take them all. Five or six weeks a year is all we can manage. I plan to list a couple of our weeks for sale after the first of the year, but I can't imagine ever giving them all up.

Sheila

 

[Acklander]

owning a timeshare vs renting a week is sort of like buying vs. leasing a car. If you don't drive many miles leasing makes a lot of sense; but if you use your car alot you end up spending much more to lease vs. own.

If you only vacation every few years, it would be foolish to purchase a timeshare - however if you like to vacation a lot the timeshare makes sense. You can usually pick up a timeshare off the resale market for very cheap (look at e-bay for an example) Now if you only vacation 1 week out of the year, you're probably at a break even point with the maintenence fee/just renting. We usually vacation 4 times a year so we just pick up the extra weeks off the get away board. I don't think we've ever spent more than $200 a week for one of the last minute get-aways. (the closer you get to the dates, the cheaper they're listed). Also, there were many times we wanted to get away for a long weekend, and it was cheaper to rent the week off the get-away board and just use it for the few nights that we wanted vs. renting a hotel room for those few nights.

Also, you can use the getaway weeks to share with family and friends. You don't have to be with them, you just get them a certificate. For our family, we definitely come in cheaper per vacation vs. just staying at a hotel.

 

[TotoToo]

For us, the math was very simple and made it very clear why there is such an overhead to sell time shares why these companies can give out the "freebees" to the thousands of people every week taking the tours.

Here's the rough math:

Price of one week...15K conservative...and sell that to someone on a 10 year loan at 7-8% and now your 15K is about 20K!

appx construction cost for 2/2 condo....80-90K tops

Sell just 40 weeks at 15k and gross 600K...yes 600K for a 2/2 or 3/2 condo

Now stick everyone with 500 to 800/ year "fee" and you have made over 1000% profit. No wonder they can give away breakfast and one day Disney tickets day after day....cuz those who buy pay for every nickle of the perks and the salaries off all those sales people.

Our recommendation is take the 15K, invest it in nice 5% CD and you will have $750/year to find a GREAT 3/2 condo in Emerald Island or Windsor Palms, or add 3 to 400 for a great two bedroom from and owner in Maui or Ohau.

If and only if, you have 15K or so of totally disposable cash so you pay NO interest on a loan, and you want a one phone call vacation vs. using the internet and boards like the Dis, then go for it.

I know I am a little opinionated about this, but I believe time shares are one of the worst investments a person can make if they are on any type of budget. Why do think there is such a huge resale business?

Do the math and think very hard about all the money involved...

Ted

Ted - Timeshare is not an investment it is best considered a prepaid vacation. And if you eliminate the purchase at $15,000 (retail) which has all the negatives you correctly point out and substitute the resale purchase price (usually 70% or more off retail) the cost almost becomes just the annual fees. That makes the per night cost in a 2 or 3 bedroom, luxury unit (if you buy the right resort(s)) a number well below the cost of a cramped hotel room no matter how luxurious it may be.

Resale timeshares can be a great purchase (not investment) compared to renting your travel accommodations. In almost no cases does retail purchase make sense as you point out very well.