Question about carny games

[Spectro is #1]

I often see threds about how tacky the carny games are in AK.

Some people think this is the end of Disney.
I don't get this, why is this bad.

does anyone complain about the carny games at Bush Gardens or at USF.

Both have had carny games before disney.
I like the spiner coster, am I the only one?

 

[Peter Pirate]

You're not alone...Just look at the line for PW most days. The probem is appearance and perspective. Many Disney purists think they know exactly what Walt would and wouldn't do and pass judgement on everything and anything. PW, the games and Pop Century are two of the easist targets beause of their cost and their lack of Disney sophistication. Most of these arguments would hold more water, IMO, if the special offerings that are given were given the credit due by these folks, but as we speak M:S is bashed daily as "less than it could have been"and 'E:E' is dismissed because it's still a couple years off...

Some people won't be satisfied until Eisner is gone and Walt will always be held up to standards that were larger than his actually were. If you keep those things in mind you'll understand the dynamics around here a little bit better.

Note: These are only my opinions and as such are usually only important to me!

 

[KNWVIKING]

The Car 3 concensus here (as well as a few 1's and 2's) is that the carny games were the very things that Walt didn't want when he designed DL. Carny games had a reputation for being sleezy, rigged, dishonest games run by dishonest men.

I personally don't have a problem with the games. I grew up at the Jersey shore, they are nothing new or exciting to me. In one respect I understand the consternation of the posters here who hate them, but I've also witnessed tons of people playing those games and having a lot of fun. Who's right ?

 

[Kaitysmom]

After reading the posts about Triceratops Spin, I was hesitant to ride it. We really liked it and rode it twice after so that we got to ride both sides (what the heck)

 

[ChrisFL]

How are AK's games themed? If they're themed well then I don't see a problem with it.

IOA's are surprisingly well themed to the area, they have middle-eastern flutes as the water cannons, hit the rat into the medieval cup, only the prizes sometimes don't fit the theme of the area.

BTW, I worked at the games at USF when I was 15 years old...only a few games were really difficult to really win anything at.

 

[Spectro is #1]

Thanks Peter I think I get it now.

I like the whole Dino thing (I feel I have to say i'm sorry after I say that around here sometimes)

My parents would take us on vacation to Main and New Hamp. and I always enjoyed the small roadside attractions. Perhaps that is why I like it so much.

Now if they would only put in go-carts and a batting cage LOL

 

[mitros]

I also grew up at the Jersey shore, and it's not the kind of place that WDW should be. The boardwalk resort is a more disney-ized version of the jersey shore. I think walts point was to avoid the dirty, uncouth parts of other amusement enterprises and I personally don't see anything wrong with that. I lived most of my life,{49 years} in NJ and prefer the disney form of entertainment then the carny-like atmosphere of wildwood. IMHO. Isn't that the point of WDW?

 

[Peter Pirate]

mitros, this is a common misconception, IMO. Walt wanted to avoid the unsavory, dirty and seedy elements that virtually all amusment type parks of this day typified. I don't believe Walt had anything against the type of attraction offered, per se, only the presentation.

Remember the stalart of Walt's DL was an ordinary carousel...Same as any 'carnival'...As long as the attraction was presented in a wholesome amosphere that 'a dad and his two daughters' could enjoy, I think it fits Walt's model..

 

[hopemax]

This time we don't have to read Walt's mind. From the Quotable Walt Disney book:

"A word may be said in regard to the concept and conduct of Disneyland’s operational tone. Although various sections will have the fun and flavor of a carnival or amusement park, there will be none of the ‘pitches,’ game wheels, sharp practices and devices designed to milk the visitor’s pocketbook"

Considering how well Walt read the general public, do you think he honestly didn't realize that if those game weren't fun, all those carnivals wouldn't have had them in the first place (no fun = no $$$)? They were fun for a portion of the audience in 1955, and they are fun for a portion of the audience in 2003.

But Walt obviously made a choice that people could have fun without the presence of those games (since he didn't have them). That and hundreds of other choices all added up to the Disney theme parks drawing millions of more visitors a year than all the other places, so he must done something right.

Some of us believe that it is more than just the opportunity to meet Mickey Mouse that created that gap between Disney and the rest. And the end result of Disney doing more and more things "just like everyone else" is Disney becoming "just like everyone else," yearly attendance included.

Is the single change of adding carny games going to result in the immediate destruction of the Disney Empire? No. But remember that titration experiment from chem class? You can add a drop of phenolphthalein to a solution and it will stay clear, add another still clear, keep it up and you'll end up with a bright pink solution. No one knows which "drop" is going to be the endpoint, but I do know a good way to avoid it, is to not start "dropping" in the first place.

I know there are a some people that think Car 3er's are just "the boy who cried wolf." Although, I would say we're more like "the boy who cried 'the wolf is 5 miles away, but it's coming closer, oh now it's 4.9 miles, 4.8 miles, 4.7 miles, etc." But not believing the boy the final time, didn't result in the sheep being any less dead.

 

[KNWVIKING]

That was a very good post.

Thank you.

 

[Peter Pirate]

It was a nice post...Still not very conclusive though. The only salient point that can be garnered from Walts quote is the part "...designed to milk the visitors pocketbook", because certainly these games do just that. But this is ignoring the realities of the world. Walt did choose not to include them at DL in 1955 but we don't know specifically why (other than the quote above). Maybe there was oversaturation with the 'sharp practices' and 'games of chance' at the time and Walt made a very conscious and good decision not to include them...To distance DL even further from those carnivals. Maybe he really detested them...But still that darn 'Shooting Arcade' rears its ugly head again, doesn't it?

 

[MelissathePooh]

Does anyone ever play those games at Chester & Hesters? Anytime we're over there the CM's are trying to get people to come over and play.

Have the been successful at all? I don't think I've ever seen a guest carrying around a "prize".

 

[daannzzz]

For me going to a Disney park is going somewhere that takes me away from the everyday world and other places that I go. A place only Disney can take me. Carny games take me to the wrong place.

 

[Peter Pirate]

Melissa, I think their patronage is quite up & down and honestly I do not expect to see the games stick around for long, but I have seen lots of participation & many, many stuffed dino's being carried about. daannzzz, no offense but your argument is just 'tit for tat' as in my life I have never experienced this type of 'wrong place'. Either my parents wouldn't take us or they weren't around, so experiencing a little of this at AK or DCA, wthin the safe clean friendly confines of Disney, is quite ok with us.

Don't get me wrong I wish things had been done better. I think PW would have been totally acceptable in a dark themed environment and TS is what it is, a spinner for kids. I really think (TOTAL PERSONAL OPINION) that the games should go and an Animal based carousel and water splash area should be added making this 'kiddie central'...

 

[hopemax]

But still that darn 'Shooting Arcade' rears its ugly head again, doesn't it?

You'll have to elaborate here. The Shooting Gallery wasn't a game of chance. It was more like the Autopia. Over there, kids got to pretend they were driving a car, at the shooting galleries, kids got to pretend they were a cowboy or an outlaw, with real guns and .22-caliber shot. And like the other unsponsored attractions in the park, it cost a little bit of money to do.

 

[KNWVIKING]

... when I've been there, the games were very busy. As for prizes, several of the games are designed where there has to be a winner. 1st time you win,little prize,next win,trade up for little bigger,etc. We actuall saw one family that had won several of the very LARGE stuffed animals. I had two thoughts: how much did they spend and I hope they aren't flying home.

 

[Peter Pirate]

Shooting Arcade = Cheesy (arcade environment) entertainment for an additional charge...

 

[hopemax]

Well, I'm going to have to disagree, because I don't think that a 1950-1960's guest thought that target shooting, with a real gun and lead pellets that the CM loaded for you was, cheesy. I think a lot of them thought it was pretty cool to experience what shooting a gun really feels like, and finding out if they could hit anything too.

 

[ErikdaRed]

So does the separating money from the guests quote extend to gift shops as well? Myself I like the carny games, won my new wife a dinosaur at Whac-a-whatever.

 

[Peter Pirate]

The1950-60's guest very well may have LOVED them and that's great, as I have no problem with it but apparantely lots and lots of 2003 guests are enjoying the games, PW & TS...Certainly not the Waltophiles or purists and Dinorama is never going to be mistaken with 'The Tree Of Life' to be sure, but what makes one catagorization correct and the other incorrect?