Question about Brokeback

[UnderTheMistletoe]

This is been nagging at me- I read the New Yorker article well before seeing the movie (the holidays, a wedding, and school delayed seeing it tremendously!) and gave it to someone else to read. I don't know if that might have been the key.

When Laureen tells Ennis that Jack is dead, Ennis flashes to the brutal scene of Jack being killed by a group of men. Yet, Laureen says that it's becuase he was killed while fixing the flat tire. Is the "flashback" due to what Ennis saw when he was younger? Is it an indication that Jack was murdered instead of died? Or is it one of those things that it supposed to just keep nagging you?!

 

[RainbowCloak]

It is one of those nagging things that are supposed to bug you.

Lurleen's explanation sounds very much like what a police officer would tell someone in the event of a death, especially for that time, if the real cause and motive of the death was found out.

A coroner would know what caused his injuries, and know whether it was a blown up tire or a tire iron that caused it.

Ennis knows Jack well enough to know whether or not Jack could change a tire and gauge if it was a faulty tire or not.

Ennis' childhood memory directly plays a part in the book about how he interprets what Lurleen says.

You are left with the impression that either COULD be true.. but more so that Ennis' point of view is the real one as that is the one that was filmed.

 

[sotoalf]

Ennis' childhood fear of the tire iron and what it represents led him to believe that Jack was the victim of a gay bashing, although we don't know for sure. Lureen's phlegmatic composure also suggests she may have been lying. It's a tribute to how good Anne Hathaway is: note how she lets out a whimper when, upon putting two and two together, Ennis explains what Brokeback Mountain is and what it meant to Jack.

 

[LukenDC]

Ennis imagines that Jack was beaten to death by a tire iron because that repesents to him the fate of gay men who refuse to remain discreet and in the closet. He believes that could very well be his fate if he does no subdue his sexuality. Ennis is deeply traumatized by viewing the body of the gay man who was beaten with a tire iron. That event is the primary source of his internal homophobia that prevents him from fully accepting hmself and embracing a deeper relationship with Jack.

It is unclear what actually killed Jack. Lureen is calm and icy when telling Ennis about the accident. Her description of it sounds well rehearsed as if she had to make it up to cover up what really happened. Jack as not as discreet as Ennis, so he may have been bashed. Of course, it is also quite possible that he did have an accident. We simply do not know for certain.

I have now seen Brokeback Mountain twice. tt is the most powerful film that I have ever seen.

 

[majortom]

My view was that Lureen's story is what actually happened and that Ennis's vision is his own internal justification of not having built a life with Jack. I think one's view on this ending has a lot to do with one's view on life in general. If one sees problems and discrimination in every aspect of life, one is more likely to take Ennis's vision as what happened, if not, one is more likely to Lureen's story as true.

/carmi

 

[LukenDC]

I'm with Major Tom in thinking that Jack really did die in an accident. Perhaps Lureen was being so cold because she knew the nature of Jack's relationship with Ennis.

Despite what I think, it is important to note that Ennis is convinced that Jack died as a result of a gay bashing. That belief and the fear that it generates keeps Ennis in the closet and alone.

 

[Banzai]

From the movie and the novella, I kinda picked up that she was lying...but that's just me. I think that Jack was getting around (again from the line in the book where it is said "Jack was riding more than horses" )

 

[LukenDC]

From the movie and the novella, I kinda picked up that she was lying...but that's just me. I think that Jack was getting around (again from the line in the book where it is said "Jack was riding more than horses" )

Jack was certainly more active than Ennis and it is possible that he attracted unwanted attention.

The scene where Ennis calls Lureen about Jack's death is so amazing. Anne Hathaway plays that scene very subtley and I find myself scrutinizing every facial expression, intake of breath, and voice inflection to piece together what is going on in Lureen's mind. During the phone call with Ennis, she seems to finally understand his significance to Jack. Lureen is cold, but she compassionately tells him to visit Jack's parents and in doing so allows him to continue on his journey of self-discovery. Lureen does, however, end the call abruptly and rudely by simply hanging up without a word of good-bye or gratitude. That tells me that she regarded talking to Ennis as a means of respect to Jack's memory and once having done that, she was simply finished with him. The scene is a brilliant mixture of compassion, resentment, and grief.

 

[Mickeyistheman]

I also would have to say that Jack's death was a bashing. Mainly because he was not as discreet as Ennis was and that could have got him in trouble during that time period. Although because of what Ennis did see in his childhood you are meant to think that maybe that didn't happen, but because Ang Lee had that scene in it, I do beleive that is how he died.

Lureen talking to Ennis was just out of respect for Jack and I do believe she knew about Jack even if she never saw him like Ennis's wife did.

That phone scene is amazing and Anne Hathaway did a great job.

 

[sotoalf]

Anne Hathaway plays that scene very subtley and I find myself scrutinizing every facial expression, intake of breath, and voice inflection to piece together what is going on in Lureen's mind. During the phone call with Ennis, she seems to finally understand his significance to Jack. Lureen is cold, but she compassionately tells him to visit Jack's parents and in doing so allows him to continue on his journey of self-discovery. Lureen does, however, end the call abruptly and rudely by simply hanging up without a word of good-bye or gratitude. That tells me that she regarded talking to Ennis as a means of respect to Jack's memory and once having done that, she was simply finished with him. The scene is a brilliant mixture of compassion, resentment, and grief.

This is so true. When Ennis reveals that Brokeback really DID exist, Lureen finally realizes the truth. It's a measure of what a good person she is that she stays on the phone as long as she did, and allows Ennis to fulfill Jack's final wishes.

 

[lillielil]

I thought it was ambiguous in both the movie and the story. Does it really matter?

 

[Fionasmommy]

Interesting!! I thought that Lureen was lying to Ennis, and the film was showing us what actually happened. I also thought that Lureen knew he had been murdered, as the guys who killed Jack in that scene were his co-workers and must've been put up to it by Lureen herself or her father when they found out. Seeing as Daddy owned the place, it would be easy enough to cover up. Jack seemed like he "got around", and the new relationship with that other guy may have been his undoing - what finally opened Lureen's eyes to it because it was right under her nose.

I haven't read the novella, though. Is there more backstory in it? I'll have to pick up a copy if there is!

 

[LukenDC]

The novella is worth reading. It's only 30 pages long and it does help to explain some things in the movie that were ambiguous. As for Jack's death, it is ambiguous in the novella as well. The novella, however, does make it clear that Jack's death at the hands of tire-iron bearing thugs is a product of Ennis' imagination. I also seem to recall Lureen's father dies before Jack, so if there was a murder it could not have been the father in law.

By the way, Jack and Ennis in the novella are not nearly as goodlooking as Jake and Heath. Hollywood took some liberties to make the characters handsome and appealing.

 

[my4kids]

Curious - any gay guys here used to be married or in a "straight relationship" before they came out? That just freaks me out as a married woman, not only finding out that your husband was unfaithful, but that his entire identity had been a big lie the whole marriage....I'm sure it happened alot more in the 60's and earlier since not many came out of the closet - but I'm sure it still happens alot today for many reasons (way a man is raised, not being honest with himself etc. )

 

[airhead]

I swore I wouldn't see it,but there wasn't anything else on the shelves . I thought that scene was what happened too. As far as the movie goes,I wish I never saw it. It was one of the most depressing movies I ever saw.