Queen Camilla

[DisneyJamieCA]

I have to ask the Americans here why you care? I never understood the fascination with royalty that appears here. We revolted against the notion of royalty, people actually shed blood, yet on threads about the royal family we fall all over ourselves praising this outdated notion of a bloodline.

That lady and her entire family could die in a fire and the world wouldn't change in actual substance. I'd wake up and go to bed without noticing. Please enlighten me.

It’s pop culture/celebrity for a lot of Americans. They don’t actually care, but find it fascinating/entertaining. Everybody likes good drama.

 

[Cheburashka]

I have to ask the Americans here why you care? I never understood the fascination with royalty that appears here. We revolted against the notion of royalty, people actually shed blood, yet on threads about the royal family we fall all over ourselves praising this outdated notion of a bloodline.

That lady and her entire family could die in a fire and the world wouldn't change in actual substance. I'd wake up and go to bed without noticing. Please enlighten me.

A lot of Americans like the British royal family and are fascinated with them. Just like a lot of British people are fascinated with American celebrities.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Rhetorical question.

Does good that someone does later always necessarily make up for previous significant dishonorable, hurtful behavior?

I have to chuckle here, too, with so many “I hate my MIL” and “I’d drop them like a hot potato” threads where people seemingly aren’t so quick to forgive and forget, that people in this instance seem so willing to “move on” with Camilla.

I can’t help but wonder how Diana’s sons and family feel about it.

Camilla was involved in an extramarital affair with Charles from before the time he walked down the aisle, and he was never willing to stop seeing her. Diana was essentially used to produce an heir and a spare. Her feelings and well-being were really never a concern for them. And things spiraled downward for her when she fully realized the predicament she was in with her husband. She blamed Camilla for much of her unhappiness and called her The Rottweiler. Diana angered the Queen when she gave a tell-all interview to Martin Bashir (which can be seen on Netflix). They’d expected that Charles and Diana would simply lead separate lives after they became estranged, but instead, the Queen and Prince Philip eventually advised them to divorce. They divorced in ‘96 and she died tragically in ‘97.

From all I have read, Camilla is good for Prince Charles. She reportedly has a wicked sense of humor and keeps him grounded. Good for them. I wish them no ill will whatsoever. It’s just hard to overlook the history. She’s not someone I’d really look up to, tbh. It’s great that she is doing good work for charity today. I liked seeing pictures of her and Charles with The Duchess of Cambridge at an event the other day. But I think that Catherine is going to be much more revered by the people in the role of Queen Consort when William finally becomes King.

But then again, what do I know, I’m just a dumb American!

 

[penn19]

Many thanks for weighing in with an "insider's" viewpoint.



This is what I've read--that the British gradually have become more accepting of Camilla than they were around the time Charles and Camilla married. A very good thing, IMO, as I always thought Charles and Diana looked so ill at ease with each other or straining to fake it.

I was amused no end by Camilla's winking toward the cameras as she turned to follow the lineup of Trump family trudging out of the room once during the state visit. That one little gesture conveyed her reaction exquisitely. I actually laughed aloud. She showed such grace, dignity and wit--and I'll refrain from comparison.

What was her reaction when Biden farted in front of her?

 

[georgina]

I have to ask the Americans here why you care? I never understood the fascination with royalty that appears here. We revolted against the notion of royalty, people actually shed blood, yet on threads about the royal family we fall all over ourselves praising this outdated notion of a bloodline.

That lady and her entire family could die in a fire and the world wouldn't change in actual substance. I'd wake up and go to bed without noticing. Please enlighten me.

It's kind of like reality TV. Personally I think the whole idea of royalty is outrageously stupid. Because you are born into a family you are better than the commoners. Charles is in love with Camilla and forced to marry someone else and they are all miserable pretending.

As an American of Irish descent whose ancestors had to leave Ireland during the potato famine, the way the British establishment treated the Irish then was bad. They deserve their miserable phony lives!

 

[PrincessShmoo]

Excuse my American ignorance but isn't it normal to call the King's wife "Queen"? Granted I get all my info from Philippa Gregory and Alison Weir novels but I figure they did their research.

This was explained in post #24 here
https://www.disboards.com/threads/queen-camilla.3870284/page-2#post-63741958
Basically, the protocol was established during a time when male heirs were preferred over female ones. So a Prince becoming King would outrank his Queen. But a Princess becoming Queen can't have a King as her spouse (unless, of course, he also has equal rights as a king, like William & Mary), only a Prince Consort or other title.

 

[Karin1984]

Excuse my American ignorance but isn't it normal to call the King's wife "Queen"? Granted I get all my info from Philippa Gregory and Alison Weir novels but I figure they did their research.

It is normal, at least in the UK, and here in the Netherlands as well. So I wouldn't be surprised if it was the case for most European royal families.
Before our current king we had three queens, all their consorts were princes, the wife of the current king is called Queen Maxima.

 

[Karin1984]

Rhetorical question.

Does good that someone does later always necessarily make up for previous significant dishonorable, hurtful behavior?

I have to chuckle here, too, with so many “I hate my MIL” and “I’d drop them like a hot potato” threads where people seemingly aren’t so quick to forgive and forget, that people in this instance seem so willing to “move on” with Camilla.

I can’t help but wonder how Diana’s sons and family feel about it.

Camilla was involved in an extramarital affair with Charles from before the time he walked down the aisle, and he was never willing to stop seeing her. Diana was essentially used to produce an heir and a spare. Her feelings and well-being were really never a concern for them. And things spiraled downward for her when she fully realized the predicament she was in with her husband. She blamed Camilla for much of her unhappiness and called her The Rottweiler. Diana angered the Queen when she gave a tell-all interview to Martin Bashir (which can be seen on Netflix). They’d expected that Charles and Diana would simply lead separate lives after they became estranged, but instead, the Queen and Prince Philip eventually advised them to divorce. They divorced in ‘96 and she died tragically in ‘97.

From all I have read, Camilla is good for Prince Charles. She reportedly has a wicked sense of humor and keeps him grounded. Good for them. I wish them no ill will whatsoever. It’s just hard to overlook the history. She’s not someone I’d really look up to, tbh. It’s great that she is doing good work for charity today. I liked seeing pictures of her and Charles with The Duchess of Cambridge at an event the other day. But I think that Catherine is going to be much more revered by the people in the role of Queen Consort when William finally becomes King.

But then again, what do I know, I’m just a dumb American!

No, we are not going to make this rhetorical, because it's a good question. It's about forgiveness. And whether or not you believe people can change. To some people there are no second chances. 'Once a thief, always a thief'-way of thinking. Are people allowed to make mistakes?

Some people are serial adulterers, some people have one indiscretion (lack of a better word) and then go on with either the relation they were in or with the person they had the indiscretion with.

I think the decision to get a divorce was a good one for both Diana and Charles, because then they both could go on with their lives and their lovers (let's not forget, Diana had a five year affair during her marriage as well with James Hewitt)

Based on what we see, I think William has forgiven his father and Camilla decades ago. Harry I am not to sure about. But then again, with Harry, you never know until the next interview ;-)

 

[mamamia2005]

Rhetorical question.

Does good that someone does later always necessarily make up for previous significant dishonorable, hurtful behavior?

I have to chuckle here, too, with so many “I hate my MIL” and “I’d drop them like a hot potato” threads where people seemingly aren’t so quick to forgive and forget, that people in this instance seem so willing to “move on” with Camilla.

I can’t help but wonder how Diana’s sons and family feel about it.

Camilla was involved in an extramarital affair with Charles from before the time he walked down the aisle, and he was never willing to stop seeing her. Diana was essentially used to produce an heir and a spare. Her feelings and well-being were really never a concern for them. And things spiraled downward for her when she fully realized the predicament she was in with her husband. She blamed Camilla for much of her unhappiness and called her The Rottweiler. Diana angered the Queen when she gave a tell-all interview to Martin Bashir (which can be seen on Netflix). They’d expected that Charles and Diana would simply lead separate lives after they became estranged, but instead, the Queen and Prince Philip eventually advised them to divorce. They divorced in ‘96 and she died tragically in ‘97.

From all I have read, Camilla is good for Prince Charles. She reportedly has a wicked sense of humor and keeps him grounded. Good for them. I wish them no ill will whatsoever. It’s just hard to overlook the history. She’s not someone I’d really look up to, tbh. It’s great that she is doing good work for charity today. I liked seeing pictures of her and Charles with The Duchess of Cambridge at an event the other day. But I think that Catherine is going to be much more revered by the people in the role of Queen Consort when William finally becomes King.

But then again, what do I know, I’m just a dumb American!

I think these are all fair points

Maybe us British have shorter memories, or we are more forgiving?
From reports Prince Phillip wasn't an angel on the faithfulness front, and there have also been rumours about William. I seem to remember a story that an ancestor of Camilla's was involved with an ancestor of Charles in an extra marital affair. I'm not condoning or excusing the behaviour, just offering a point that maybe its not as big an issue in high society compared to us commoners! (Although of course it did seem to be an issue for Diana)

I think in the future Kate will be a very popular Queen. She is often compared to Diana - if she wears say a green dress with a white collar, the press wheel out a photo of Diana in a similar outfit and say she is wearing the outfit in a nod to her late mother in law. However, she does seem to have a natural way about her and has grown into her role over the years.
Harry and William seem to be very accepting of Camilla, and appear to get on well with her.

At the end of the day none of us know what goes on behind closed doors, but the fact that the Queen has released this statement shows how important she feels this is to have it cleared up before the inevitable happens.

 

[Karin1984]

I think in the future Kate will be a very popular Queen. She is often compared to Diana - if she wears say a green dress with a white collar, the press wheel out a photo of Diana in a similar outfit and say she is wearing the outfit in a nod to her late mother in law. However, she does seem to have a natural way about her and has grown into her role over the years.

To be fair, they do that with Meghan as well. Every time Meghan wears Diana's watch or something that's even remotely similar to Diana, everything is labelled by the tabloids as a 'sweet nod'. It does happen more often with Kate because her style in general is more like Diana's.

Harry and William seem to be very accepting of Camilla, and appear to get on well with her.

Is Harry very accepting? I thought one of the theories about the dirty laundry he will be airing in his memoires are his thoughts on Camilla, and one of the reasons for Charles to invite him to stay at his place during the jubilee (provided they come, security issues bla bla bla).

 

[mamamia2005]

Oh I hadn't read that about Harry not being a fan of Camilla.
But then I tend to take most of what Harry says with a pinch of salt these days!

 

[Cheburashka]

Every time I hear about "King Charles and Queen Camilla", I probably won't be able to help recalling their recorded phone conversation in which Charles erotically fantasized about being her tampon and then being flushed down the toilet.

 

[Her Dotness]

What was her reaction when Biden farted in front of her?

Hadn't heard about that.

As befits a future Queen Consort, I expect Camilla merely "Kept calm and carried on."

In private subsequently, I'd not be surprised but what she busted a gut.

 

[Skywalker]

I say good for Charles and Camilla. Maybe the Queen's way of making up for the fiasco of not letting them be together in the first place.

And really, from a certain point of view Charles's loyalty to Camilla is really quite something. Even though he couldn't marry her, he never stopped loving her. Not to sound mean but, Diana was the glamorous beauty of the two of them, with Camilla being really quite plain and dowdy even - yet the Prince never wavered. I really don't blame him as he was just being used a chess piece in a greater game, as they all were.

As mentioned above, Diana was no saint (I know people do tend to get idealized in death). If she was still alive, and happily remarried or whatever, would people still be vilifying Camilla? Who knows.

I am happy to have Charles as King and will be happy to have William next.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

What was her reaction when Biden farted in front of her?

Reportedly she was joking about it everywhere for weeks afterward!

No, we are not going to make this rhetorical, because it's a good question. It's about forgiveness. And whether or not you believe people can change. To some people there are no second chances. 'Once a thief, always a thief'-way of thinking. Are people allowed to make mistakes?

Some people are serial adulterers, some people have one indiscretion (lack of a better word) and then go on with either the relation they were in or with the person they had the indiscretion with.

I think the decision to get a divorce was a good one for both Diana and Charles, because then they both could go on with their lives and their lovers (let's not forget, Diana had a five year affair during her marriage as well with James Hewitt)

Based on what we see, I think William has forgiven his father and Camilla decades ago. Harry I am not to sure about. But then again, with Harry, you never know until the next interview ;-)

I think people are absolutely allowed to make mistakes. We all do. But a decades-long affair isn’t what I would call a mistake.

Diana was very much in love with Charles and wanted desperately for him to love her back. She was 20 years old when they married and he was 33. After years of realization that he would never be what she wanted and needed him to be, yes, she saw other people herself, too. She was in the prime of her life and in a tortuous and very public loveless marriage. And not only that, but under the thumb of a very powerful royal family. She suffered severe psychiatric problems and was always unsure of who she could trust. The irony of her life - ‘The People’s Princess’, but unloved by many in her own family - became unbearable, and at some point she felt she had little to lose.

I think these are all fair points

Maybe us British have shorter memories, or we are more forgiving?
From reports Prince Phillip wasn't an angel on the faithfulness front, and there have also been rumours about William. I seem to remember a story that an ancestor of Camilla's was involved with an ancestor of Charles in an extra marital affair. I'm not condoning or excusing the behaviour, just offering a point that maybe its not as big an issue in high society compared to us commoners! (Although of course it did seem to be an issue for Diana)

I think in the future Kate will be a very popular Queen. She is often compared to Diana - if she wears say a green dress with a white collar, the press wheel out a photo of Diana in a similar outfit and say she is wearing the outfit in a nod to her late mother in law. However, she does seem to have a natural way about her and has grown into her role over the years.
Harry and William seem to be very accepting of Camilla, and appear to get on well with her.

At the end of the day none of us know what goes on behind closed doors, but the fact that the Queen has released this statement shows how important she feels this is to have it cleared up before the inevitable happens.

Reportedly the William rumors are just that. Philip, sure. I agree that affairs do seem to be more common in high society.

 

[Disneylover99]

I think people are absolutely allowed to make mistakes. We all do. But a decades-long affair isn’t what I would call a mistake.

Diana was very much in love with Charles and wanted desperately for him to love her back. She was 20 years old when they married and he was 33. After years of realization that he would never be what she wanted and needed him to be, yes, she saw other people herself, too. She was in the prime of her life and in a tortuous and very public loveless marriage. And not only that, but under the thumb of a very powerful royal family. She suffered severe psychiatric problems and was always unsure of who she could trust. The irony of her life - ‘The People’s Princess’, but unloved by many in her own family - became unbearable, and at some point she felt she had little to lose.

Charles was in love with Camilla way before Diana. But he couldn’t marry Camilla and he had to marry Diana. I’m sure they said, just be discreet and you can have Camilla on the side. It’s just the way it was back then. So I don’t see his relationship with Camilla as a mistake. I think it was more of a compromise for him back then. Maybe he thought he would eventually grow to love Diana. But his love for Camilla just grew stronger.

Now I was team Diana all the way. I loved her. I saw Camilla as the villain. But now that it’s all said and done and we know the back stories and how it all played out, I’m happy for Charles and Camilla.

 

[Her Dotness]

Maybe us British have shorter memories, or we are more forgiving?

At risk of being deemed un-American, I think we tend to be judgmental and not terribly understanding of human weakness where sex is concerned. I attribute that to a strain of Puritanism still entirely too active in our culture. We're far too holier-than-thou sometimes.

I seem to remember a story that an ancestor of Camilla's was involved with an ancestor of Charles in an extra marital affair.

Yes, that sounds familiar. I think you're correct.

Interestingly, there was a good deal of extramarital hijinks in Diana's ancestry, too. Look up her multiply-great aunt, Georgiana, Duchess of Devonshire. She led quite the checkered life as did her husband the Duke.

I'm not condoning or excusing the behaviour, just offering a point that maybe its not as big an issue in high society compared to us commoners! (Although of course it did seem to be an issue for Diana)

I think Diana was profoundly damaged by her mother's leaving her father for the other man. There was a sordid custody fight that had to have left 8-year-old Diana traumatized and feeling abandoned.

I suspect Diana's mother was none too emotionally stable herself. Her own mother may have compelled her to marry the Earl Spencer at age 18 or so when he was somewhat older and interested in Frances for little more than siring the necessary heir. (I won't get started on Diana's brother, the heir and current earl.)

At the end of the day none of us know what goes on behind closed doors, but the fact that the Queen has released this statement shows how important she feels this is to have it cleared up before the inevitable happens.

I rather think the Queen might have been cautioned by doctors several months back that she hasn't much time left. She seems to be putting in place more provisions lately to insure a seamless transition, perhaps because Charles has long been said to be not very keen to become King. I'm sure her sense of duty and love of her people spurs her to think ahead as much as possible for the welfare of the commonwealth at large.

 

[Her Dotness]

It’s pop culture/celebrity for a lot of Americans. They don’t actually care, but find it fascinating/entertaining. Everybody likes good drama.

A lot of Americans like the British royal family and are fascinated with them. Just like a lot of British people are fascinated with American celebrities.

Admittedly, I don't care that much about the royals, nor am I fascinated by them.

I simply find history intriguing, both American and British.

Also, how much humankind seems to value pomp and pageantry. The British monarchy certainly know how to do spectacle.

I'm curious to a fault, I suppose, always the four-year-old going, "Why? Why? WHY?"

 

[mamamia2005]

I rather think the Queen might have been cautioned by doctors several months back that she hasn't much time left. She seems to be putting in place more provisions lately to insure a seamless transition, perhaps because Charles has long been said to be not very keen to become King. I'm sure her sense of duty and love of her people spurs her to think ahead as much as possible for the welfare of the commonwealth at large.

has

The Queen has certainly scaled back her royal visits in recent years, and who can blame her at 95 years of age! She has slowly been handing over more roles and responsibility to Charles as well as other members of the family. As you say, she wants a smooth transition as possible. However, even today there are photos in our media of the Queen sitting with her red box of papers. As she said herself, she is our servant, and will take her role seriously until the day she dies, I have no doubt of that. She obviously isn't ready to completely let go just yet.
Her mother lived to 102 years old. I would love for her to reach her 100th birthday providing she stays well. Although she is looking frail these days, she is said to still be as sharp as a pin.

 

[Karin1984]

I think people are absolutely allowed to make mistakes. We all do. But a decades-long affair isn’t what I would call a mistake.

It's not the affair that was a mistake. It was the marriage to Diana that was a mistake. Did Charles betray Diana with Camilla or was it the other way around?

If Diana hadn't died, she probably would have continued the persona of the woman scorned who transformed into an independent, confident, sexy woman. She was very keen to show the world, like she did with her little black dress, that she was going to continue living her life. By the time she died, she was no longer the victim she maybe was at the beginning of her marriage or how she portrayed herself in the Panorama interview. She was on her way up and out after it.
To keep thinking of her how she was at the beginning of her marriage 40 years ago and not how she was 25 years after her transformation started is not doing her any justice.

The problem with people dying young, they stay the way they are while the rest of the world goes on living and changing.