Public school system- not happy

[bunkkinsmom]

As for the lunchroom, my oldest started in public school before winning a lottery seat in a Charter School in 3rd grade. The lunchroom in the public school was civilized at best, and it was better than most. The teachers tried their best, didn't eat to get the kids fed and back to class. It was chaos. The charter school has no lunchroom, the kids eat in class. They can either purchase a school hot lunch (different things different days, i.e. Tuesday is Chick-Fil-A, Wednesday is Salsaritas, etc...) or bring a lunch from home. My son has been in this Charter since Kinder and I am quite happy with it so far. I see little difference in curriculum, the main difference, frankly, is parental participation. In the charter there are at least 2 parents in the classroom every day. One for lunch duty (the teachers leave the class and eat separately) and one for "moral focus" and admin to help the teacher. I worked 45 hours a week before becoming a SAHM and I volunteered for lunch every other Monday. That's not a lot, but I sacrificed vacation time for that and driving on field trips (no school provided activity bus). I was blessed to be in a position to do that and I really think it makes a HUGE difference.

 

[princessmom29]

More is not necessarily better.....sometimes, it is just more.

But sometimes more IS better. Look at the nations that are outpacing in math and science education. The typical work load on a first grader in those countries far outpaces what we are being asked to do. HUMM, I wonder why they are getting ahead? Could it be that they are asking just a bit more from thier students? I personally think that we expect far too little of our children in this country. Far less than they are capable of. I KNOW my DD is capable of donig much more than she is asked to do in school.
I got a really clear picture of this when I volenteered as a coach for 1st and 2nd graders this year. Their parents insisted that they could not possibly be expected to pay attention and focus on what they are bieng asked to do through and entire one hour practice. I was asking way too much of them and needed to encorporate game time or a coloring page to break it up. I stuck to my guns however, and guess what? Those same children who couldn't possibly be asked to focus according to thier parents did beautifully, once they knew that I expected a certian level of focus and cooperation and that Mom was NOT gonig to be able to get them out of it short of quitting the team. After 2 weeks, there was no more whining about it or poor behavior and we had a team that could work as unit and accomplish our goals while still having fun. Those kids were so pround of themselves and whagt they could do. I think the same is true in the calssroom. If we have high expectations, they will rise to meet them. If we have the attitude that they are being asked to do too much, its not fair, ect. then our kids will as well.

 

[stashbin]

As a mother, I do not want to spend more than 15 minutes per night on homework. When my kids get home they are tired, I am tired, and I want to relax and enjoy my time with my kids. The only homework I think is worthy of being assigned is a couple of math problems that are indicative of the skills taught in class that day, and reading silently. Those are the two major things that kids need help with.
There are so many kids who have no one to help them with homework. They have no computers, no parental help (this could be for various reasons)...no way of completing homework successfully. I say just limit homework to an as needed basis if any at all.
Today there are so many opportunities for students to get the work done at school. In my town, the high school kids are in class for 88 minutes, they have a 45 minute "study block", and various oppotunities for after school tutoring (some of which transportation is provided). Why assign so much homework?
I have elementary aged kids. The other night, my oldest had math homework, a grammar sheet, and 2 tests to study for that included vocabulary and fill in the blank type of questions. She started right when she got home at 3:30 and did not go to bed until 10:30. She stopped long enough to take a bath and eat supper. This was ridiculous. I was so mad because she literally worked all night because she is one of those kids who has to study for her grades.
On another note.....In my opinion, the schools in my area suffer because of the lack of parental involvement and the fear the teachers and administrators have to deal with problem students. Until the power is shifted back to the teachers and administrators, the students will continue to run amok and the scores will continue to decline.

 

[princessmom29]

As a mother, I do not want to spend more than 15 minutes per night on homework. When my kids get home they are tired, I am tired, and I want to relax and enjoy my time with my kids. The only homework I think is worthy of being assigned is a couple of math problems that are indicative of the skills taught in class that day, and reading silently. Those are the two major things that kids need help with.
There are so many kids who have no one to help them with homework. They have no computers, no parental help (this could be for various reasons)...no way of completing homework successfully. I say just limit homework to an as needed basis if any at all.
Today there are so many opportunities for students to get the work done at school. In my town, the high school kids are in class for 88 minutes, they have a 45 minute "study block", and various oppotunities for after school tutoring (some of which transportation is provided). Why assign so much homework?
I have elementary aged kids. The other night, my oldest had math homework, a grammar sheet, and 2 tests to study for that included vocabulary and fill in the blank type of questions. She started right when she got home at 3:30 and did not go to bed until 10:30. She stopped long enough to take a bath and eat supper. This was ridiculous. I was so mad because she literally worked all night because she is one of those kids who has to study for her grades.
On another note.....In my opinion, the schools in my area suffer because of the lack of parental involvement and the fear the teachers and administrators have to deal with problem students. Until the power is shifted back to the teachers and administrators, the students will continue to run amok and the scores will continue to decline.

I don't WANT to do a lot of things, but I do them becuase they are what is best for my kid. No one LIKES doing homework, otherwise it wouldn't be called work, but it SHOULD be serving a purpose. I don't think what your daughter was assigned should have taken that long. If it is taking her that kind of time to study, mabye she needs some help with study skills? No way should it take an elementary student that long to study for 2 tests. When we have that kind of load it is 45 min of work max. If your child is spending that kind of time on it, I would be talking to the teacher about what needs to be done differently. If it is taking the majority of the class that long then either they need to be taught how to study rather than memorize or the tests need to be adjusted. I od think 15-30 min of homework a night is perfectly valid, however.
BTW, it is nice that your high schoolers have a "study block", but most don't. Some even give up lunches to get in one more class. It is not really feseable to expect that there will not be homework in high school, especially in upeer level classes. There is just no way to get it all done at school. There are not enough hours in the day.

 

[stashbin]

I don't WANT to do a lot of things, but I do them becuase they are what is best for my kid. No one LIKES doing homework, otherwise it wouldn't be called work, but it SHOULD be serving a purpose. I don't think what your daughter was assigned should have taken that long. If it is taking her that kind of time to study, mabye she needs some help with study skills? No way should it take an elementary student that long to study for 2 tests. When we have that kind of load it is 45 min of work max. If your child is spending that kind of time on it, I would be talking to the teacher about what needs to be done differently. If it is taking the majority of the class that long then either they need to be taught how to study rather than memorize or the tests need to be adjusted. I od think 15-30 min of homework a night is perfectly valid, however.
BTW, it is nice that your high schoolers have a "study block", but most don't. Some even give up lunches to get in one more class. It is not really feseable to expect that there will not be homework in high school, especially in upeer level classes. There is just no way to get it all done at school. There are not enough hours in the day.

My child is an typical ADHD child with adequate study skills. The point is that there were 2 major tests the next day to study for (which the study guide did not come home until the day before) on top of the homework. The OP talked about overkill on testing and I happen to agree with that. I don't think teachers should assign more than one major test per week when it comes to elementary school. High school is going to be different of course.
We will have to agree to disagree on the homework issue. I despise it. I think it takes up too much family time, and I think too many teachers give it and don't check it, thus making it useless. BTW..the issue for some is not that they don't "like" doing homework with their kids but rather than they may not be able to help due to a lack of skills or maybe they work nights. For me...it's that I don't like it. ;-)

 

[kamgen]

We are not falling behind other countries because we don't give our kids enough homework or challenge them in schools.....the number one problem is lack of parent involvement and the disconnect between teachers and parents.

And I am not saying that my kids should not be challenged and motivated to succeed in school...but the busy work sent home is ridiculous.

 

[lisateaches]

We are not falling behind other countries because we don't give our kids enough homework or challenge them in schools.....the number one problem is lack of parent involvement and the disconnect between teachers and parents.

And I am not saying that my kids should not be challenged and motivated to succeed in school...but the busy work sent home is ridiculous.

I think you definitely have a point. One of the PP mentioned how the only difference in the Charter schools is the parental participation.

 

[torinsmom]

I think you definitely have a point. One of the PP mentioned how the only difference in the Charter schools is the parental participation.

Parental involvement is definitely key. I have taught at a charter school and am now at a magnet school and we have really high parent involvement. We had the same at the charter school. Our kids also tend to score higher than most in the district. I think parent involvement and student achievement go hand in hand.

 

[bunkkinsmom]

I have an entirely new perspective on homework this year. My DH owns his own company, so while I am "technically" a SAHM, I often spend my days taking notes in meetings, doing PR and marketing, and trying to volunteer at the school a little. My DSIL also just had double heart and lung transplant, so it's a bit nuts with homework this year. Last year my DD finished with Straight A's! Good Girl! She is used to doing her homework between the last bell and when we come pick her up, which is about 40 minutes. Usually that is ALMOST enough time to finish. With her good grades, I never doubted her work. This year, she is REALLY struggling with math. Also this year they get graded on homework. Not a "completed" or "incomplete", but an actual grade. So if she doesn't understand the classwork and does the homework incorrectly, it kills her grade. This year I have had to take the time to sit and go over her homework nightly, in addition to helping my DS with his homework. In addition to cooking dinner. In addition to baths. In addition to laundry and Lord knows what ever else comes up during the day. I routinely don't sit down until 9pm. HOWEVER, I know EXACTLY where my kid stands in school, where her opportunities lie and what her strengths are. That helps me as a parent to incorporate conversations in our daily routine that point to her opportunities. I believe that being in school is more than her full time job.

HAVING SAID THAT!-------- We do all of this so that we CAN take them out for 5-7 school days a year for Disney. Life doesn't revolve around school, but good grades are their responsibility. So they have to make choices to ensure they can do the things they want to do (camping, Disney, one free day off a quarter), because if the grades go down, the cool non-school things go away.

I agree that nothing is more important than Family...... ever. But I also think that there is a way to give the kids the best of both worlds, and that will most of the time mean way more effort on our parts.

 

[golfgal]

As a mother, I do not want to spend more than 15 minutes per night on homework. When my kids get home they are tired, I am tired, and I want to relax and enjoy my time with my kids. The only homework I think is worthy of being assigned is a couple of math problems that are indicative of the skills taught in class that day, and reading silently. Those are the two major things that kids need help with.
There are so many kids who have no one to help them with homework. They have no computers, no parental help (this could be for various reasons)...no way of completing homework successfully. I say just limit homework to an as needed basis if any at all.
Today there are so many opportunities for students to get the work done at school. In my town, the high school kids are in class for 88 minutes, they have a 45 minute "study block", and various oppotunities for after school tutoring (some of which transportation is provided). Why assign so much homework?
I have elementary aged kids. The other night, my oldest had math homework, a grammar sheet, and 2 tests to study for that included vocabulary and fill in the blank type of questions. She started right when she got home at 3:30 and did not go to bed until 10:30. She stopped long enough to take a bath and eat supper. This was ridiculous. I was so mad because she literally worked all night because she is one of those kids who has to study for her grades.
On another note.....In my opinion, the schools in my area suffer because of the lack of parental involvement and the fear the teachers and administrators have to deal with problem students. Until the power is shifted back to the teachers and administrators, the students will continue to run amok and the scores will continue to decline.

That same homework may have taken another child 10 minutes to do. This is where some of the problem lies--like you said, your child has to study for her grades, other kids wouldn't have had to open a book and still got 100% on the test. Also, what else was she doing while she was studying? Did she have the TV on, was she texting her friends, checking facebook, etc. We hear this a lot from parents of some of our kids' friends-how much homework they have, yet they have 30 facebook posts about what song they are listening to on their Ipods and what score they got on Angry Birds all while they are "doing their homework". Our kids are juniors in high school and have NEVER had 7 hours of homework in one evening, they have never even had 5 hours in one evening. They are taking all AP/Honors classes and still don't have that much homework in an evening.

For all the parents complaining about "too much homework", let's check back in a few years when your kids are in high school and see how well they are keeping up with their peers.

 

[kamgen]

I am not worried about how they "keep up with their peers"....that is the whole problem here. Not everything in life is a competition.
I only care about that they are successful, happy and work hard.

 

[angwill]

That same homework may have taken another child 10 minutes to do. This is where some of the problem lies--like you said, your child has to study for her grades, other kids wouldn't have had to open a book and still got 100% on the test. Also, what else was she doing while she was studying? Did she have the TV on, was she texting her friends, checking facebook, etc. We hear this a lot from parents of some of our kids' friends-how much homework they have, yet they have 30 facebook posts about what song they are listening to on their Ipods and what score they got on Angry Birds all while they are "doing their homework". Our kids are juniors in high school and have NEVER had 7 hours of homework in one evening, they have never even had 5 hours in one evening. They are taking all AP/Honors classes and still don't have that much homework in an evening.

For all the parents complaining about "too much homework", let's check back in a few years when your kids are in high school and see how well they are keeping up with their peers.

You can not judge and assume a child who's homework takes all night is doing things they should not.

My son in grade and middle school sat most nights doing homework for hours on end when he had teachers who drown him in homework. Not all did. Those were the years he had no social life or sports and clubs he could join after school let alone family time. He did it in the same spot where he could be seen. Didn't have a tv, phone, video game and didn't go online unsupervised while doing homework nor was facebook around. None of his teachers wanted to believe it took him that long either despite knowing he had learning differences which was very frustrating to us both. Not all children are alike and it is very time consuming and difficult for some children. Sadly, he also dreaded school those years.

The funny thing is that my son is now in half day high school with half day at community college and has a lot less homework than he ever did in grade school. He also finally actually enjoys school which is a blessing after all the struggles he went though in his younger school years. It is sad when teachers choose to doubt parents when they say their child is having a hard time with homework. It sure didn't leave a good impression in parents minds about them either. I was not the only parent who's child had this issue either.

 

[golfgal]

I am not worried about how they "keep up with their peers"....that is the whole problem here. Not everything in life is a competition.
I only care about that they are successful, happy and work hard.

The whole issue you are missing is that your child is going to be in classes with these other kids that will be ahead of your child. Those same kids will be taking the same tests, etc. as your child and scoring higher and as a result, your child's GPA and class rank will be lower. Then these are the same kids that will be scoring well on college entrance exams and with their higher GPA/class rank and higher college exam scores will be getting into colleges while your child may or may not. Just how successful can people be without a college degree these days, not very. You have to think beyond 1st grade. Your child is already struggling, it's only going to get worse.

 

[golfgal]

You can not judge and assume a child who's homework takes all night is doing things they should not.

My son in grade and middle school sat most nights doing homework for hours on end when he had teachers who drown him in homework. Not all did. Those were the years he had no social life or sports and clubs he could join after school let alone family time. He did it in the same spot where he could be seen. Didn't have a tv, phone, video game and didn't go online unsupervised while doing homework nor was facebook around. None of his teachers wanted to believe it took him that long either despite knowing he had learning differences which was very frustrating to us both. Not all children are alike and it is very time consuming and difficult for some children. Sadly, he also dreaded school those years.

The funny thing is that my son is now in half day high school with half day at community college and has a lot less homework than he ever did in grade school. He also finally actually enjoys school which is a blessing after all the struggles he went though in his younger school years. It is sad when teachers choose to doubt parents when they say their child is having a hard time with homework. It sure didn't leave a good impression in parents minds about them either. I was not the only parent who's child had this issue either.

Asking a question is not judging or assuming, it's asking for clarification....

 

[mhsjax]

But sometimes more IS better. Look at the nations that are outpacing in math and science education. The typical work load on a first grader in those countries far outpaces what we are being asked to do. HUMM, I wonder why they are getting ahead? Could it be that they are asking just a bit more from thier students? I personally think that we expect far too little of our children in this country. Far less than they are capable of. I KNOW my DD is capable of donig much more than she is asked to do in school.
I got a really clear picture of this when I volenteered as a coach for 1st and 2nd graders this year. Their parents insisted that they could not possibly be expected to pay attention and focus on what they are bieng asked to do through and entire one hour practice. I was asking way too much of them and needed to encorporate game time or a coloring page to break it up. I stuck to my guns however, and guess what? Those same children who couldn't possibly be asked to focus according to thier parents did beautifully, once they knew that I expected a certian level of focus and cooperation and that Mom was NOT gonig to be able to get them out of it short of quitting the team. After 2 weeks, there was no more whining about it or poor behavior and we had a team that could work as unit and accomplish our goals while still having fun. Those kids were so pround of themselves and whagt they could do. I think the same is true in the calssroom. If we have high expectations, they will rise to meet them. If we have the attitude that they are being asked to do too much, its not fair, ect. then our kids will as well.

Must be in your area, we start our 4 year olds with hour long practices around here. Our kindergartners have homework. Not much, but they do have it. Maybe your area is one that the parents do push, but this doesn't hold true for everywhere. Sounds to me like you have some real wimpy parents.

 

[Becky2005]

I don't know. I don't think IL tests more than they did when I was in school. They test every year with the big standardized tests but they test different subjects. I basically think those are a waste of your time because you don't get the results back until the following year, so they are pretty useless as a tool for the children anyway. Those are more an assessment for the schools but luckily our grade school (at least previous Principals, we have a new one so not sure her thinking yet) pretty much think of them as a snapshot and nothing more.

The only difference is apparently you will get your child in trouble if you teach them the easy way to pass timed tests. LOL!

My DD nearly had my head when she was in 2nd grade because I taught her the "skip the ones you don't know" method since she was having a hard time finishing her timed test. She said the teacher gave her a hard time about skipping problems but hey, she passed her subtraction test in the first try using my method vs. having to keep doing the addition one a bunch of times because she would run out of time (she would spend too much time on ones that stumped her).

There are the usual weekly spelling tests & subject tests but not so much the standardized testing stuff. It can backfire on them though -- due to a low standardized testing school my son got put in extra help math class & well...let's just say he was blowing everyone else out of the water in that class. I had wondered how in the world he qualified for that class in 6th grade myself but it was based on assessments done in
4th grade. He completely enjoyed the class though because he was breezing through it.

Of course, by the time they get older and the stakes for the timed test are tied to $$$ for the school the better they do, they tell the kids to skip the ones you don't know and go back to them. They will get more right that way and get a higher score so a higher %. I cracked up when DD got older and told me they were coaching them on ways to do their best on the test and that was a method. I guess I wasn't as wrong as she thought I was in 2nd grade.

 

[golfgal]

I don't know. I don't think IL tests more than they did when I was in school. They test every year with the big standardized tests but they test different subjects. I basically think those are a waste of your time because you don't get the results back until the following year, so they are pretty useless as a tool for the children anyway. Those are more an assessment for the schools but luckily our grade school (at least previous Principals, we have a new one so not sure her thinking yet) pretty much think of them as a snapshot and nothing more.

The only difference is apparently you will get your child in trouble if you teach them the easy way to pass timed tests. LOL!

My DD nearly had my head when she was in 2nd grade because I taught her the "skip the ones you don't know" method since she was having a hard time finishing her timed test. She said the teacher gave her a hard time about skipping problems but hey, she passed her subtraction test in the first try using my method vs. having to keep doing the addition one a bunch of times because she would run out of time (she would spend too much time on ones that stumped her).

There are the usual weekly spelling tests & subject tests but not so much the standardized testing stuff. It can backfire on them though -- due to a low standardized testing school my son got put in extra help math class & well...let's just say he was blowing everyone else out of the water in that class. I had wondered how in the world he qualified for that class in 6th grade myself but it was based on assessments done in
4th grade. He completely enjoyed the class though because he was breezing through it.

Of course, by the time they get older and the stakes for the timed test are tied to $$$ for the school the better they do, they tell the kids to skip the ones you don't know and go back to them. They will get more right that way and get a higher score so a higher %. I cracked up when DD got older and told me they were coaching them on ways to do their best on the test and that was a method. I guess I wasn't as wrong as she thought I was in 2nd grade.

That is exactly what they should be considered. I think the annual tests the schools do are much more helpful for the schools to track individual kids. When the scores are reported by grade, 4th, 6th, 8th, 11th, etc. they are not helpful at all because all they measure is how well this year's 4th graders do compared to last year's 4th graders.

 

[PeterPan09]

But sometimes more IS better. Look at the nations that are outpacing in math and science education. The typical work load on a first grader in those countries far outpaces what we are being asked to do. HUMM, I wonder why they are getting ahead? Could it be that they are asking just a bit more from thier students? I personally think that we expect far too little of our children in this country. Far less than they are capable of. I KNOW my DD is capable of donig much more than she is asked to do in school.
I got a really clear picture of this when I volenteered as a coach for 1st and 2nd graders this year. Their parents insisted that they could not possibly be expected to pay attention and focus on what they are bieng asked to do through and entire one hour practice. I was asking way too much of them and needed to encorporate game time or a coloring page to break it up. I stuck to my guns however, and guess what? Those same children who couldn't possibly be asked to focus according to thier parents did beautifully, once they knew that I expected a certian level of focus and cooperation and that Mom was NOT gonig to be able to get them out of it short of quitting the team. After 2 weeks, there was no more whining about it or poor behavior and we had a team that could work as unit and accomplish our goals while still having fun. Those kids were so pround of themselves and whagt they could do. I think the same is true in the calssroom. If we have high expectations, they will rise to meet them. If we have the attitude that they are being asked to do too much, its not fair, ect. then our kids will as well.

I agree. My ex was a music minister in a church. She ran a children's choir that started with 1st graders. Everyone told her that she was expecting too much out of such young children and that they could never learn to sing in parts, sing Latin, or sing anything other than nursery rhyme type songs. She made liars out of ALL of them. Those kids sang in parts, they sang beautiful classical works, even in Latin! AND they loved it. She treated them like they were capable of doing it and they did it! Now she's teaching music in a public school and she's getting the same results out of inner city kids who seem to be routinely told that they can't do anything. Her kids can!

We don't expect a lot out of our kids, heck, we don't expect a lot out of ourselves anymore. Our culture is all about getting the most for doing the least, so it's no shock that we don't want to push our kids to work hard for the simple reward of accomplishment.

 

[NY Disney fan]

We don't expect a lot out of our kids, heck, we don't expect a lot out of ourselves anymore. Our culture is all about getting the most for doing the least, so it's no shock that we don't want to push our kids to work hard for the simple reward of accomplishment.

I believe that if your kid is capable, push them a little bit more. If they are not capable or don't want to, don't push. My daughter doesn't know any better, her teacher gives her 10 min of homework in Kindergarten. I give her 45 min to an hour. She loves it, why? She doesn't know any better. She says mommy "I like math." The other day she was doing several math worksheets and I had to drag her away from her abacus to go to bed. If we teach our kids that they should only get "so and so" homework minutes a night, they will get used to it and try to get away with it.

I'm going to prep her for her first math competition next year. I'll just tell my daughter its for fun. The more society start working her mind aobut how "hard" math is or that "she's only a kid", the less influence I'll have over her. I want to guide her and show her that no matter what profession someone enters, they will always need math!

 

[princessmom29]

We are not falling behind other countries because we don't give our kids enough homework or challenge them in schools.....the number one problem is lack of parent involvement and the disconnect between teachers and parents.

And I am not saying that my kids should not be challenged and motivated to succeed in school...but the busy work sent home is ridiculous.

But what if it's NOT busy work, and how do you as a parent know the difference? I don't ever assign homework without a purpose, and I see a purpose behind everything DD brings home. If you don't understand why you aredoing something, why not ask?

I am not worried about how they "keep up with their peers"....that is the whole problem here. Not everything in life is a competition.
I only care about that they are successful, happy and work hard.

But the reality is that in order for them to be successful, they are going to need to keep up with thier peers. The reality is that life in a capitalist society is about competition. The best candidate gets the job, period so you need to be that best candidate. I just cannot see not pushing my kid to givwe her best work all the time. Adequate is simply not good enough for me. I want her best all the time, becuase society will demand that of her as an adult.

I agree. My ex was a music minister in a church. She ran a children's choir that started with 1st graders. Everyone told her that she was expecting too much out of such young children and that they could never learn to sing in parts, sing Latin, or sing anything other than nursery rhyme type songs. She made liars out of ALL of them. Those kids sang in parts, they sang beautiful classical works, even in Latin! AND they loved it. She treated them like they were capable of doing it and they did it! Now she's teaching music in a public school and she's getting the same results out of inner city kids who seem to be routinely told that they can't do anything. Her kids can!

We don't expect a lot out of our kids, heck, we don't expect a lot out of ourselves anymore. Our culture is all about getting the most for doing the least, so it's no shock that we don't want to push our kids to work hard for the simple reward of accomplishment.

'
Exactly. Do your best because donig your best is its own reward. We have become a "do enough to get by" society and I think ti is part of why our economy is in the tank. We are, as a nation, looking to do as little as possible. Homework is only one example.