Public school system- not happy

[Pigeon]

Yes, you do have to qualify for scholarships, but everyone is able to apply and may get partial help. I'm sure if you are actually struggling to get food on the table, you would qualify. Of course, if you are struggling to put food on the table, I doubt you would have the money to be on the internet.

I didn't blithely say anything and neither did anyone else. We just pointed out that there are alternatives to public school if parents have issues with it. Charter schools are an option for many people. If not for you, that is your choice just like anything else. Public schools will always be lacking in some areas, but many people make the most of what is there. We supplement our kids learning, and play an active role in what goes on in the school. We stand up against policy changes that aren't in the best interest of our kids, and stand up for policies that are a step in the right direction. Basically, we make the most with what we are given. Honestly, I wouldn't put my child in most of the private schools around here. There is no cultural or economic diversity and the parents run the school because they pay such high tuition. Some might think that's a good thing, but it's almost as bad as the state running the school. I wouldn't homeschool, because I would strangle my child

I'm not struggling to feed my family, but many folks are. Many people also have internet access for various reasons, or may be accessing it from public places. The two are not mutually exclusive. And yes, there are many folks who are essentially stuck without much real choice.

We are in a good district, but with all public education, our kids are suffering from the mandates of NCLB.

I know for a fact that the genuinely good private schools here give out very few scholarships of any significance. They are prep schools for the wealthy that take a very few token disadvantaged kids.

I would share your concern about the lack of diversity. But those schools do, in many ways, offer a very superior education, with class sizes topping out around 10, and top-notch facilities and faculty. But they also run around $25-30K/year and realistically aren't an option for most people.

 

[IDoDis]

She's not wrong. Not all states offer alternative assessments for students with disabilities.

My previous state of residence (New Mexico) had no alternative assessment for special education students.
My current state of residence (Texas) has changed state assessments this year. Previous to this year, the TAKS test was offered in modified and accomodated versions for students needing test modifications and accomodations. This year, the new state assessment has no alternate or modified versions thus far. At this point, there is only one assessment being offered for students, regardless of ability level.

Actually, NM has had the NMAPA (New Mexico Alternative Assessment) for almost 10 years. It's evolved over the years, but it is an assment for students wth lower cognitive abilities. I had a student last year with Down Syndrome take the alternative assessment. The IEP team decides if the student can take the standardized assessment or not, but there's criteria that has to be met.

Schools that have a few intensive support programs and/or autism programs for low functioning students get dinged on their AYP if more than 2% of students in the school taking the test (grades 3-5), take the alternative assessment. There is a bg push to have the students take the standardized assessment even though they clearly cannot be even remotely successful with it.

Also a fact that many people aren't aware of is that a student's standardized assessment results can be counted several times. So if a student is a minority, receives free or reduced lunch, is an English Language Learner, and is in special ed, his/her score is counted 4 times -- typically a low score. Gifte students however, only get their score counted once if they are anglo and do not receive free lunch. Gifted services do not fall under the federal guidelines for special ed, so their typically higher scores only count once for the school.

NCLB is so broken.

 

[ilovefh]

I am pretty sure that in states where they offer alternative tests they can only offer so many and the rest of the students take the "regular" test--which is why the special ed scores for so many districts are so low.

I was just going to post this! It was like this in NH. I don't know the exact percentage but if the school has more students that need an alt. assessment than the percentage allows.....tough luck. The other students have to take the NECAP anyway. Really fun for a student who is barely reading on a third grade level who is expected to pass the 7th grade reading test!

Actually, NM has had the NMAPA (New Mexico Alternative Assessment) for almost 10 years. It's evolved over the years, but it is an assment for students wth lower cognitive abilities. I had a student last year with Down Syndrome take the alternative assessment. The IEP team decides if the student can take the standardized assessment or not, but there's criteria that has to be met.

Schools that have a few intensive support programs and/or autism programs for low functioning students get dinged on their AYP if more than 2% of students in the school taking the test (grades 3-5), take the alternative assessment. There is a bg push to have the students take the standardized assessment even though they clearly cannot be even remotely successful with it.

Also a fact that many people aren't aware of is that a student's standardized assessment results can be counted several times. So if a student is a minority, receives free or reduced lunch, is an English Language Learner, and is in special ed, his/her score is counted 4 times -- typically a low score. Gifte students however, only get their score counted once if they are anglo and do not receive free lunch. Gifted services do not fall under the federal guidelines for special ed, so their typically higher scores only count once for the school.

NCLB is so broken.

Your last paragraph is why some students are getting forgotten about. Oops, sorry average performing white child whose first language is English and pays for lunch, I need to work with this student who receives special ed and ESOL services, is a minority and does not pay for lunch. At my last school we were TOLD to focus on these students.

I just don't know why we are being forced to worry so much about these scores. Why can't we just worry about helping kids each reach THEIR OWN potential.

 

[golfgal]

I'm not struggling to feed my family, but many folks are. Many people also have internet access for various reasons, or may be accessing it from public places. The two are not mutually exclusive. And yes, there are many folks who are essentially stuck without much real choice.

We are in a good district, but with all public education, our kids are suffering from the mandates of NCLB.

I know for a fact that the genuinely good private schools here give out very few scholarships of any significance. They are prep schools for the wealthy that take a very few token disadvantaged kids.

I would share your concern about the lack of diversity. But those schools do, in many ways, offer a very superior education, with class sizes topping out around 10, and top-notch facilities and faculty. But they also run around $25-30K/year and realistically aren't an option for most people.

There is a pretty easy solution that doesn't cost anything-open enrollment. Let parents chose which schools they want to send their kids to--make them apply and if there is room, let the kids attend that school. Tax dollars follow the student so it is a money maker for the enrolling district so there is incentive to be a good district. I can tell you though, it doesn't change the lower end of the educational spectrum at all-those kids that come from families that just don't care about getting a good education. They won't go through the process to apply. The better schools will just keep getting better and the bad schools just keep getting worse.

 

[torinsmom]

I'm not struggling to feed my family, but many folks are. Many people also have internet access for various reasons, or may be accessing it from public places. The two are not mutually exclusive. And yes, there are many folks who are essentially stuck without much real choice.

We are in a good district, but with all public education, our kids are suffering from the mandates of NCLB.

I know for a fact that the genuinely good private schools here give out very few scholarships of any significance. They are prep schools for the wealthy that take a very few token disadvantaged kids.

I would share your concern about the lack of diversity. But those schools do, in many ways, offer a very superior education, with class sizes topping out around 10, and top-notch facilities and faculty. But they also run around $25-30K/year and realistically aren't an option for most people.

Private school was not an option for me because of diversity AND finances. I do feel like my son got an education almost as good as a private education at the Montessori charter school though. High school is about to drive be batty though

There is a pretty easy solution that doesn't cost anything-open enrollment. Let parents chose which schools they want to send their kids to--make them apply and if there is room, let the kids attend that school. Tax dollars follow the student so it is a money maker for the enrolling district so there is incentive to be a good district. I can tell you though, it doesn't change the lower end of the educational spectrum at all-those kids that come from families that just don't care about getting a good education. They won't go through the process to apply. The better schools will just keep getting better and the bad schools just keep getting worse.

Do other states do this? For us, you can apply for a magnet school or a charter school, but I don't think you can choose your child's school otherwise. One thing that drives me crazy is that some parents will apply for preK at our (magnet) school and then put them in their base school after that year. They use us as free daycare, and parent who want their kids in a public Montessori don't have a spot for their kids that year. Our school feeds into a Montessori middle school, so once you're in, you're in until high school. Makes me sad when I find out a child is leaving after preK.

 

[Goofyluver]

Actually, NM has had the NMAPA (New Mexico Alternative Assessment) for almost 10 years. It's evolved over the years, but it is an assment for students wth lower cognitive abilities. I had a student last year with Down Syndrome take the alternative assessment. The IEP team decides if the student can take the standardized assessment or not, but there's criteria that has to be met.

Schools that have a few intensive support programs and/or autism programs for low functioning students get dinged on their AYP if more than 2% of students in the school taking the test (grades 3-5), take the alternative assessment. There is a bg push to have the students take the standardized assessment even though they clearly cannot be even remotely successful with it.

Also a fact that many people aren't aware of is that a student's standardized assessment results can be counted several times. So if a student is a minority, receives free or reduced lunch, is an English Language Learner, and is in special ed, his/her score is counted 4 times -- typically a low score. Gifte students however, only get their score counted once if they are anglo and do not receive free lunch. Gifted services do not fall under the federal guidelines for special ed, so their typically higher scores only count once for the school.

NCLB is so broken.

The reason I didn't mention the NMAPA is because it is specifically geared towards those students with the most severe disabilities, often the ones who are non-verbal, etc. Children with severe learning disabilities or other disabilities who may even be functioning several grade levels behind their actual grade year are forced to take the standardized assessment. My previous district's directive was, "When they can't hold a pencil, they can take the NMAPA."

I know here in Texas, *some* school districts figure how many students per school would be entitled to take the alternative state exam without the district being dinged. Then they dole out the tests to the most deserving. (although our new state assessment program currently hasn't brought forth any alternative, accomodated, or modified versions. we're assuming they will, though.)

NCLB IS broken, and it broke us.

 

[punkin]

I'm not struggling to feed my family, but many folks are. Many people also have internet access for various reasons, or may be accessing it from public places. The two are not mutually exclusive. And yes, there are many folks who are essentially stuck without much real choice.

We are in a good district, but with all public education, our kids are suffering from the mandates of NCLB.

I know for a fact that the genuinely good private schools here give out very few scholarships of any significance. They are prep schools for the wealthy that take a very few token disadvantaged kids.

I would share your concern about the lack of diversity. But those schools do, in many ways, offer a very superior education, with class sizes topping out around 10, and top-notch facilities and faculty. But they also run around $25-30K/year and realistically aren't an option for most people.

We are also in a supposedly "good district". All that means is that our kids are tested all the time, class education time is cut to the bone, and homework is increased. The kids are doing very well on the tests because they all get either intensive parental help or (more likely) have tutors in each and every academic subject.

I went to private schools on scholarship for many years, but I was dirt poor, tested off the charts, and filled a particular diversity niche. I hated it. Socially it was a complete horror. I did get a good enough education to get into a public magnet school for high school. Private school isn't the answer even if you can get one of the very few scholarships available.

 

[golfgal]

Private school was not an option for me because of diversity AND finances. I do feel like my son got an education almost as good as a private education at the Montessori charter school though. High school is about to drive be batty though




Do other states do this? For us, you can apply for a magnet school or a charter school, but I don't think you can choose your child's school otherwise. One thing that drives me crazy is that some parents will apply for preK at our (magnet) school and then put them in their base school after that year. They use us as free daycare, and parent who want their kids in a public Montessori don't have a spot for their kids that year. Our school feeds into a Montessori middle school, so once you're in, you're in until high school. Makes me sad when I find out a child is leaving after preK.

We've been doing it for close to 20 years. Like I said it hasn't helped the worst schools in the state at all. Most people use it to get into schools that have programs they want. We get a lot of kids that open enroll into our district for the music program, for example. It's a very nice option to have, still doesn't change lake of parental involvement to get the lower end kids up to where they should be.

 

[torinsmom]

We've been doing it for close to 20 years. Like I said it hasn't helped the worst schools in the state at all. Most people use it to get into schools that have programs they want. We get a lot of kids that open enroll into our district for the music program, for example. It's a very nice option to have, still doesn't change lake of parental involvement to get the lower end kids up to where they should be.

This is so true! You can't make parents care about their child's education. Some really believe it's the school's job to educate their child and they shouldn't have to do anything. It's not that their child is not as smart as the child of a more involved parent, but obviously, a child whose parent reads with them and goes over their homework, etc. is going to progress more rapidly than one who sits in front of tv/video games all evening and never looks at a book. I am amazed at the number of Kindergartners I get who cannot show me the front of a book when asked. How can you get to be 5 and not know where the front of a book is?

 

[kamgen]

Okay, so I am the OP and have been sick a few days and not on DIS. So let me apologize for not keeping up. I do so appreciate everyone's feedback here. I have not read through all the posts, but I wanted to answer a few of the questions or concerns. Sorry if my responses are scattered.
First, it is my DS and he is in 1st grade. I am not pressuring him to excel and he is not struggling. He loved school and couldn't wait to start 1st grade. We always tell him to do his best and do not foster an environment where he would get anxiety. He is getting all A+ to B+ on every test he takes so far. And the reason I mentioned some blame to the NCLB initiative is because his teacher blames it and says the state curriculum is based on what they need to do to prepare kids to move on to those tests later. Oh yeah, and we are originally from Michigan.
Here is a summary of his typical week: His homework is 10 spelling words, 3 sentence journal entry, read three books, comprehension questions based on reading, 3 pages of math worksheets, word activity, 6 robust vocabulary words, and a timed reading paragraph. His tests are Spelling, Reading, Vocabulary, Grammer, High Frequency, and Math.
My main concern is that there is so much testing and test prep that there is not enough time to learn/teach. And his day is so full, that he rarely gets recess. It is an overload in my opinion.

Pigeon- I love you! Yes, we are certainly over-weighing the cow! LOL!

If I have missed anything, please let me know. I am going to try an read through more of the posts. I appreciate your opinions.

 

[SmallWorld71]

And his day is so full, that he rarely gets recess.

In first grade! This is just wrong.

 

[torinsmom]

In first grade! This is just wrong.

And in my state, illegal.

 

[kamgen]

We are going to meet with his teacher (again!!) when we get back from our cruise. Some of the other parents we are friends with are mad too. Last week he had recess once. The kids say the teacher tells them they are too busy to go outside....we are going to get to the bottom of that. There are just some crazy rules (imho). Like, assigned seats at lunch....he rarely talks to any of his friends from Kindergarten, even the ones in his class. Crazy.

 

[torinsmom]

Now assigned seats at lunch I don't see a big problem with. I don't do it, but several of the other PreK/K teachers do. They spend a lot less time telling kids to quiet down and eat their lunch. I will usually just end up telling kids they can't sit beside each other for a few days if they are causing a problem.

Here's some info on requirements in Florida:

http://www.aahperd.org/naspe/publications/upload/Florida-profile.pdf

I would question how students are getting 30 minutes of physical education each day without recess. Kids(especially young ones) need to spend unstructured time where they can run and interact with their peers IMHO. Our principal was talking about making recess structured and teachers quickly let him know that the kids' whole day is structured and they need some time to unwind in order to continue to work on academic concepts. I think he was concerned that some kids don't have the social skills for free play, but it is much easier to concentrate on helping those kids acquire those skills through targeted activities that making the whole group do games when they want to swing or run.

 

[princessmom29]

We are going to meet with his teacher (again!!) when we get back from our cruise. Some of the other parents we are friends with are mad too. Last week he had recess once. The kids say the teacher tells them they are too busy to go outside....we are going to get to the bottom of that. There are just some crazy rules (imho). Like, assigned seats at lunch....he rarely talks to any of his friends from Kindergarten, even the ones in his class. Crazy.

Why do you think assigned seats at lunch is a "crazy rule"? We had them when I was little, and DD's class does for a week when they get too loud at lunch consistently. It is a GREAT way to get rid of lunchtime chaos and ensure kids actually eat.

 

[kamgen]

Personally I feel that school is just as much learning positive social behaviors as book learning. I understand that his class all sits together...but to make him sit next to the same kids every day and not even the kids he chooses, seems ridiculous to me.

 

[IDoDis]

The reason I didn't mention the NMAPA is because it is specifically geared towards those students with the most severe disabilities, often the ones who are non-verbal, etc. Children with severe learning disabilities or other disabilities who may even be functioning several grade levels behind their actual grade year are forced to take the standardized assessment. My previous district's directive was, "When they can't hold a pencil, they can take the NMAPA."

I know here in Texas, *some* school districts figure how many students per school would be entitled to take the alternative state exam without the district being dinged. Then they dole out the tests to the most deserving. (although our new state assessment program currently hasn't brought forth any alternative, accomodated, or modified versions. we're assuming they will, though.)

NCLB IS broken, and it broke us.

It's obvious that those who wrote the bill & signed the law are not educators! I'm sure you have experienced much frustration with this.

Okay, so I am the OP and have been sick a few days and not on DIS. So let me apologize for not keeping up. I do so appreciate everyone's feedback here. I have not read through all the posts, but I wanted to answer a few of the questions or concerns. Sorry if my responses are scattered.
First, it is my DS and he is in 1st grade. I am not pressuring him to excel and he is not struggling. He loved school and couldn't wait to start 1st grade. We always tell him to do his best and do not foster an environment where he would get anxiety. He is getting all A+ to B+ on every test he takes so far. And the reason I mentioned some blame to the NCLB initiative is because his teacher blames it and says the state curriculum is based on what they need to do to prepare kids to move on to those tests later. Oh yeah, and we are originally from Michigan.
Here is a summary of his typical week: His homework is 10 spelling words, 3 sentence journal entry, read three books, comprehension questions based on reading, 3 pages of math worksheets, word activity, 6 robust vocabulary words, and a timed reading paragraph. His tests are Spelling, Reading, Vocabulary, Grammer, High Frequency, and Math.
My main concern is that there is so much testing and test prep that there is not enough time to learn/teach. And his day is so full, that he rarely gets recess. It is an overload in my opinion.

Pigeon- I love you! Yes, we are certainly over-weighing the cow! LOL!

If I have missed anything, please let me know. I am going to try an read through more of the posts. I appreciate your opinions.

That is way too much homework for a first grader. If this is what first grade is getting, what are the poor 4th and 5th grade kids doing each night? And why in the heck would the teacher want to grade all of that homework? Buy your DS's teacher this book:

http://www.thecaseagainsthomework.com/ and buy a copy for yourself. It's very enlightening!

Also, have you ever heard of the film, "Race to Nowhere?" See if you can organize the film to be shown for parents & teachers at your DS's school.

http://www.racetonowhere.com/

 

[hereyago]

That is way too much homework for a first grader. If this is what first grade is getting, what are the poor 4th and 5th grade kids doing each night? ]

BUT: not every first grade teacher in the school would assign the same amount of homework, it can differ from teacher to teacher. When DD had 4th grade, it was a joke of the low amount of homework she had from her 2 teachers, but then at the end of the year push all these studying for the SOLs. Her friend's 4th grade teacher totally different with the amount of homework.

The 3 books thing: that isn't a big deal, it's first grade books and usually a certain amount of time each night is required for reading.

The recess thing: what is about 15-20 minutes? yes find out from the teacher in her words why it isn't taken as much, are the kids being bad and recess taken away, etc.

Assigned lunch seating: this is honestly not worth a blip on radar, even when DD was in 5th grade there could be assigned seating and just because YOUR kid doesn't talk and be disruptive, doesn't mean other kids aren't or they aren't quiet around their friends. And once again varies from teacher to teacher.

 

[Coconut36]

It's obvious that those who wrote the bill & signed the law are not educators! I'm sure you have experienced much frustration with this.



That is way too much homework for a first grader. If this is what first grade is getting, what are the poor 4th and 5th grade kids doing each night? And why in the heck would the teacher want to grade all of that homework? Buy your DS's teacher this book:

http://www.thecaseagainsthomework.com/ and buy a copy for yourself. It's very enlightening!

Also, have you ever heard of the film, "Race to Nowhere?" See if you can organize the film to be shown for parents & teachers at your DS's school.

http://www.racetonowhere.com/

The OP listed a weeks worth of homework..that really doesn't seem that much to me over the course of 5 days.

 

[kamgen]

Personally, and again this is only my opinion, I don't think there should be so much homework for any grade. And I used to be a teacher, so I can look at both sides of the equation.


As for the lunch argument. It is a big deal to me. If they are not given recess and they have no time for social/talking to friends in class, lunch is the ONLY time to do so. Why not let them sit with a variety of kids.