PSA- "Safety Schools"

[punkin]

I'll chime in. I'm planning to finance DD's college mostly from current income and loans. It's a cash flow decision. She has some good college choices with some nice merit money. CC is not a good option for her for reasons other than prestige. Yes, the sheer amount of money is daunting and scary, but...that's our choice.

 

[leebee]

'

It's not a crushing life altering thing. She can go to community college for one year and then transfer somewhere else, likely one of those State Universities, or even the one in commuting distance. Private college is not the be-all and end-all and is no guarantee of a better job later. And for a student in a field where they will likely need a masters degree, people will care more where that came from than where they went for undergrad.

Totally agree, and 2 years at tech school is actually how I started, but that wasn't my point. Bottom line is the parents didn't leave any option OTHER than high priced schools, without considering what would happen if scholarship/merit aid didn't work out the way they were sure it would. Don't know if my niece considered applying to our state university (where both her parents got their degrees) because it was clearly not an option from the parents' perspectives; my sister has said as much, that her daughter didn't work this hard to go there. Neither parent ever said, "So what do we do if the money ISN"T offered, like so many of our friends are suggesting might happen?" Now, given their credit scores and current incomes, my sister and her ex aren't even eligible to borrow the kind of money they'd need to help send my niece to all but one of the schools to which she applied (in addition to my niece borrowing the maximum allowed).

Everyone is always careful to have their kids apply to academically-safe schools, but do they also think to have them apply to schools that they know they can AFFORD, even if it means taking on loan debt, in addition to the dream schools?

 

[Christine]

'

It's not a crushing life altering thing. She can go to community college for one year and then transfer somewhere else, likely one of those State Universities, or even the one in commuting distance. Private college is not the be-all and end-all and is no guarantee of a better job later. And for a student in a field where they will likely need a masters degree, people will care more where that came from than where they went for undergrad.

I think as adults who have been-there, done-that, we all know what you say is true. But I do think it is kind of sad for a young person who has been totally, mistakenly, led in a certain direction by their parents only to have that whole expectation just ripped out from under them.

Maybe the girl should have never expected what her parents were promising, but I don't know many 17-18 years who *don't* buy into the promises their parents make them. She had her plans set one way (and they were encouraged), and through no fault of her own it was taken away from her.

I think to a 17/18 y/o that can be quite devastating. But it's done now. I think it's time now that this girl (and the adults who supposedly care for her) let her know that they screwed up and get her going on a good path--which at this point would be community college.

 

[NotUrsula]

She has time to re-think her choices and send in some new applications; time to apply to some second-tier state schools. Many of them have very strong ratings regionally, and are often very eager to get those top-ranking students who normally make a beeline for the flagship schools or name private schools. Many schools in the South, especially, are willing to waive out-of-state tuition for high-ranking students, and generally will have lower in-state tuition than schools in other regions.

Face it, five years out of school, very few employers care where you went, the only thing that matters is that you took a challenging course load and did well. Time to re-think and go after the low-hanging fruit.

FWIW, the problem with the CC route, if you are dependent on getting scholarship money, is that only a very tiny percentage of scholarships and school grants can go to upperclassmen transfer students. The vast majority of such awards may only be initially awarded to Freshmen.

One other thing: it may be the smart thing for her to delay starting college until Jan. At many schools, Spring admissions are a lot less competitive than Fall admits, and the scholarship money is still good if you haven't started college elsewhere. 8 months of full-time employment could go a long way toward paying her expenses.

 

[Patience]

My daughter is a college senior. She has been accepted into four masters programs (speech pathology), two of which are in-state and two out of state. She just received an offer for a $4000 per year graduate assistantship from one of the in-state schools. That plus in-state tuition pretty much swayed her from attending the pricey out of state school she was seriously considering. I'm proud that she realizes how much of an impact student loan debt can have on your life after college. She's debt free from undergrad.

 

[DopeyDame]

Your advice is good and I can tell your heart is in the right place, but the drama seems a little over the top.
I got into a great state school with a good scholarship and for a variety of reasons willingly took on a ton of debt to go to a private school with very little financial aid. For me, it was the right decision. It very well may be the right decision for her.
Or, as many others have said, she still has lots of other options. Her flagship state school may not accept her now, but many other state school certainly will. Or she can take a semester off. Or even a whole gap year. Or a year at community college. Or several other viable options.

Loans for college (assuming the right school and a reasonable major) aren't really the death-knell that you suggest.

 

[littleblackegg]

I ended up going to my "safety school" because there was no way I could afford my first choice. This was OK. They gave me a ton of scholarships and financial aid. The hardest thing was waiting two years to start school. My mother was in constant conflict with her second husband, and he refused to provide documentation for my FAFSA. I waited tables and lived in a little apartment with a roommate. I did end up in huge amounts of debt, but I got my degree from an excellent state school.

 

[Minnie-Mickey]

We are going through the college aid letters here as well. He originally wanted private school. I had him apply to a few safe schools for both cost and grades. He did get 60k over 4 years at one school and ave of 30k total at other schools. He choose a small state school within an hours drive. No money except a tuition scholarship waver which in Mass is $700. The fees are high here 12k + . There is a great website that you type in the yearly cost of the school and it will tell you what you need to make per year to pay back your loan and what the estimated payment would be, it is eye opening to say the least. Then, I had him check out the average salary for the job he may get upon graduation and he changed to the state school. I hope people are reading the award letters closely. One award he received was a "groan" It is a grant that if you fall below a 3.5gpa all the grant money becomes a loan. What? Also, people should check to see if the aid is given just one year or promised over the 4 years. One school offers it to freshmen. Get you in the door and then take away the award. Just food for thought. We put our deposit in for the state school last night. Setting up our own bank account with monthly payments now to allow the money to accure before the due dates.

 

[China Expat]

There is one thing to consider.....ww saved for 18 years for our son's tuition, and had enough to pay 50K annually for the first three years. Then the 2008 recession hit and we could not pay senior year tuition. He took out a student loan. However, because he majored in computer science at a "dream school," he had multiple offers before his senior year started. I hate that he is starting his adult life with 50k debt, but he will pay it off quickly due to his job and salary. I would never recommend taking on crushing debt and then beginning a low paying career. Not worth it. As a parent, I am afraid I no longer support the old "major in your passion" rhetoric; in today's economy you need to major in something that can pay the bills. So, there is some merit in the long run to attending a private university and majoring in the right field.

 

[goofy4tink]

Our dd graduates in May. She is going to a private university....over $45,000 a year (room/board/tuition). She was accepted at two state colleges, at $18,000 a year (room/board/tuition). She was told that if she chose a state school, we would pay 100%. If she chose a private school, she would have student debt. Her choice. She chose, and now will have about $35,000 in debt. She has had some grant money...but each year it decreased!
We live in a town that is very snooty about where you go to college! It's amazing to hear the parents going on and on about where their child is going! It's nuts. Not to mention sad....many families are strapping themselves financially rather than face embarrassment around town. As if anyone cares by Dec of freshman year!!

I'm in the camp that says your niece needs to apply to a few other, less expensive schools. If mom and dad aren't able to do much money-wise, then she is going to have to take out loans. A less expensive school will keep those amounts down.
But for parents to put this kind of stress on a child is awful! That poor girl...she's done everything right. Mom and dad made their choices..too bad their child now has to pay the price..literally.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

She has time to re-think her choices and send in some new applications; time to apply to some second-tier state schools. Many of them have very strong ratings regionally, and are often very eager to get those top-ranking students who normally make a beeline for the flagship schools or name private schools. Many schools in the South, especially, are willing to waive out-of-state tuition for high-ranking students, and generally will have lower in-state tuition than schools in other regions.

Face it, five years out of school, very few employers care where you went, the only thing that matters is that you took a challenging course load and did well. Time to re-think and go after the low-hanging fruit.

FWIW, the problem with the CC route, if you are dependent on getting scholarship money, is that only a very tiny percentage of scholarships and school grants can go to upperclassmen transfer students. The vast majority of such awards may only be initially awarded to Freshmen.

One other thing: it may be the smart thing for her to delay starting college until Jan. At many schools, Spring admissions are a lot less competitive than Fall admits, and the scholarship money is still good if you haven't started college elsewhere. 8 months of full-time employment could go a long way toward paying her expenses.

Our local CC (ECC) has a terrific transfer program with Missouri S&T that even includes automatic scholarship money for certain grade levels. DD has had her sights set on MIZZOU for years, but credits won't transfer as well. So, we're looking at other options including S&T even though she's not interested in engineering.

 

[mom2rtk]

Our local CC (ECC) has a terrific transfer program with Missouri S&T that even includes automatic scholarship money for certain grade levels. DD has had her sights set on MIZZOU for years, but credits won't transfer as well. So, we're looking at other options including S&T even though she's not interested in engineering.

She'll have her pick of nice eligible young men too!

 

[BrinkofSunshine]

I think as adults who have been-there, done-that, we all know what you say is true. But I do think it is kind of sad for a young person who has been totally, mistakenly, led in a certain direction by their parents only to have that whole expectation just ripped out from under them.

Maybe the girl should have never expected what her parents were promising, but I don't know many 17-18 years who *don't* buy into the promises their parents make them. She had her plans set one way (and they were encouraged), and through no fault of her own it was taken away from her.

I think to a 17/18 y/o that can be quite devastating. But it's done now. I think it's time now that this girl (and the adults who supposedly care for her) let her know that they screwed up and get her going on a good path--which at this point would be community college.

My family was in the "follow your dreams" camp instead of facing reality- I would have rather have been devastated at 17/18 than live with the debt we have now.. but hindsight is 20/20, I suppose.

 

[Magpie]

We ONLY considered schools we could financially afford. Our son had dreams of going to the New York Film Academy, and this led to many arguments between him and his dad. The kid even paid to write the SAT (not a requirement for university admission in Canada), and his scores were very good... But not full-ride scholarship good, which is basically what he'd have needed, when you take into account the cost of living in NYC.

In the end, he saved himself the cost of applying and chose to attend a university closer to home, which offered him a pretty good scholarship.

We've bee saving for years. One of our kids (thanks to scholarships and summer internships) is on track to earn her undergrad with even a little money left over to put toward her masters and doctorate. The other one might make it through his undergrad without debt... If he continues to live at home. If he moves out, he'll have to take on some debt. Not a huge amount - about 20 grand. It should be manageable. He's not aiming for a doctorate, fortunately.

 

[NotUrsula]

Our local CC (ECC) has a terrific transfer program with Missouri S&T that even includes automatic scholarship money for certain grade levels. DD has had her sights set on MIZZOU for years, but credits won't transfer as well. So, we're looking at other options including S&T even though she's not interested in engineering.

Missou will take any degree-counting credit from any school in the UM system, including from Rolla. The trick with community college courses is that like a whole lot of large universities, Mizzou doesn't number many classes in the 2000's. That causes issues with transfers from community colleges, because they won't take more than 64 hours of CC credit, but none of the equivalent UM classes may be numbered above 3000. You would be hard-pressed to come up with 64 hours of degree-counting credit in Columbia without taking any class numbered above 3000, so it becomes a Catch-22. Best best that most people I know have found is to move to Mizzou after freshman year, rather than after sophomore.

DS spent a few weeks in a summer program at Mizzou after HS soph. year and decided he hated Columbia. Mo.State was his fallback school if it came to that, but he didn't want to stay in Missouri (and now he won't come back here unless he's starving, I'm pretty sure.) He is in south Florida and very happy there, and that's where he intends to stay, even though the school he is in wasn't anywhere on his short list. They came knocking and it turned out to be a good fit. (His school also accepts a large range of CLEP credits, so he took several exams and knocked off a semester's worth of credits that way. After a year he will be sitting on 50 hours' credit by the time fall enrollment comes around.)

 

[The Mystery Machine]

SO I guess really that while I am incredibly sad for my niece, I am REALLY mad at my sister for backing her into this corner, for not considering reality and the true cost of a college education in addition to the school itself.

Yes, your sister was delusional. It happens.

Hopefully your niece starts to emerge from her mother's delusions and gets back on track.

 

[goofy4tink]

Talk about hindsight being 20/20...my dd told me, about a month or so ago, that perhaps the state school that was her second choice might have been a better idea! She 'thought' she had $100,000 in student debt!! Geez Louise kid...what kind of parent would allow that to happen? I told her that sure, it might have been a better choice, but that the college she chose instead, while more expensive, was the right choice. Oh, and by the way dear? You have about $30 grand in debt. She thought it was Christmas morning! However, she did say that it really might have been better to go with the less expensive school and have no debt at all. No kidding!! Geez.

 

[Christine]

So I had a similar conversation at work this morning with a coworker. It wasn't so much about finances as it was about a college senior and her parents who had outrageous expectations that their daughter could get into some prestigious schools. She has very good grades and test scores, but just not quite good enough. She applied to 6 fabulous colleges but did not apply to one safety school. She was denied admission to all 6 schools and is devastated.

But, they did quickly scramble and she did some late admissions to a few safety schools within and around her state and she is getting some acceptances at least.

So it does seem as if the OP's niece could do the same and maybe get into some more reasonable public universities if she didn't want to do the community college thing.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

So it does seem as if the OP's niece could do the same and maybe get into some more reasonable public universities if she didn't want to do the community college thing.

Yes, I am sure she could find something.

It is too bad she did not do her due diligence with reading up on the schools she was applying for.

My youngest dd only applied at schools in which she had a shot at merit aid. While she wishes she was at our alma mater of which dh and I are grads (Mizzou), the merit aid granted was pathetic against the full tuition.

She went with the best choice for her major + merit aid offered.

 

[luvsJack]

She has time to re-think her choices and send in some new applications; time to apply to some second-tier state schools. Many of them have very strong ratings regionally, and are often very eager to get those top-ranking students who normally make a beeline for the flagship schools or name private schools. Many schools in the South, especially, are willing to waive out-of-state tuition for high-ranking students, and generally will have lower in-state tuition than schools in other regions.

Face it, five years out of school, very few employers care where you went, the only thing that matters is that you took a challenging course load and did well. Time to re-think and go after the low-hanging fruit.

FWIW, the problem with the CC route, if you are dependent on getting scholarship money, is that only a very tiny percentage of scholarships and school grants can go to upperclassmen transfer students. The vast majority of such awards may only be initially awarded to Freshmen.

One other thing: it may be the smart thing for her to delay starting college until Jan. At many schools, Spring admissions are a lot less competitive than Fall admits, and the scholarship money is still good if you haven't started college elsewhere. 8 months of full-time employment could go a long way toward paying her expenses.

Transfer money may depend on what state the student is in and where she is transferring to.

If she decides to attend CC, she needs to have an idea of where she wants to transfer to. Then either talk to an advisor at the 4 year school or look at their website for transfer scholarships. Also talk to an advisor at the cc and find out about any scholarships they may offer to students transferring to her choice of a 4 year school.

Our cc gives scholarships to attend each of the three big state schools here plus a few to schools of your choice. Additionally there are PTK scholarships and those from other honor societies.
We have had a few students who come here for two years and leave with very good fa packages for their transfer schools.

The trick is doing your homework ahead of time.