PSA: B2B Alaska cruisers

[PrincessShmoo]

FYI:

If anyone is booked B2B on Seattle-Vancouver/Vancouver-LA cruises, PLEASE contact DCL and talk to them about the Passenger Vessel Services Act.

While these are 2 separate cruises, the PVSA will recognize them as one cruise. And the act says that no foreign-flagged ship can carry passengers from on US city to a different US city without a distant foreign port. A distant foreign port is defined as any port NOT in North America or the Caribbean.

Traveling from Seattle - LA with no distant foreign port is not allowed.

 

[ThePhantomsGirl]

No disrespect, but this is probably incorrect info. It is two separate cruises. They will have people leave the ship and re-board. People book, and pay for, two separate cruises.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

No disrespect, but this is probably incorrect info. It is two separate cruises. They will have people leave the ship and re-board. People book, and pay for, two separate cruises.

I know for a fact that on other cruiselines that people who have tried to do similar itineraries (US city - foreign port/foreign port - different US city) they have been told they must cancel one of the cruises as it violates the PVSA.

All I'm saying is, check with DCL. And get it in writing that you are OK to take these 2 cruises B2B.



EDIT: This is from the original thread I found on a different board:]

Well...I do want to thank everyone for the information and heads up. I did in fact verify with a good friend of mine (she is the former chief counsel for the U.S. Department of Transportation's Maritime Administration (MARAD) ) and she did confirm that doing a B2B with these two cruises would be a violation of US Laws.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

DH just pointed out that it probably registers as one cruise according to the PVSA because you don't go through customs on the turnaround day.

 

[WoodysMIL]

No disrespect, but this is probably incorrect info. It is two separate cruises. They will have people leave the ship and re-board. People book, and pay for, two separate cruises.

Please see my post on the Alaska Sept. 3 thread:

It explains more of what my friend communicated to me. I agree that anyone who has this booked as a B2B should in fact call DCL and discuss this with them.

Personally we have decided it is best to play it safe and not have anything come up that could in fact put a damper on our Alaska cruise experience.

(I'm sorry, but because I'm fairly new to the DIS boards it will not allow me to post a link to the thread). If you have problems finding it I'm sure someone else can post the link.

 

[catislander]

We tried to do something similar on Norwegian a few years back and could not do it for that reason. Our plans were to train to Seattle, do an Alaskan and then a repo back to LA. The NCL agent originally booked it and then found out it couldn't legally be done and had to cancel us. We still did the repo but made other plans for first half of our vacation.
It's the same reason there are no one-way cruises to Hawaii.
Sherri

 

[trimix]

The penalty for a violation is $300 per passenger. I can't imagine that DCL would refuse B2B customers over that amount, considering how much they would get per person for a B2B booking. But, of course, it is up to DCL to decide if they are willing to pay that fine.

 

[WoodysMIL]

The penalty for a violation is $300 per passenger. I can't imagine that DCL would refuse B2B customers over that amount, considering how much they would get per person for a B2B booking. But, of course, it is up to DCL to decide if they are willing to pay that fine.

The problem is that even if Disney paid the fine...the passengers would still have to leave the vessel in Vancouver because it is against the law. Thus the passenger would be out the monies paid for the 2nd cruise...plus the cost of transportation home.

So both the cruise line and the passenger looses out.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

The penalty for a violation is $300 per passenger. I can't imagine that DCL would refuse B2B customers over that amount, considering how much they would get per person for a B2B booking. But, of course, it is up to DCL to decide if they are willing to pay that fine.

The money pentalty is $300 per person. The cruiseline may also be banned from using those ports again. I don't think DCL (or any other cruiseline) would knowlingly place themselves in that position.

 

[ThePhantomsGirl]

I happened to call DCL today and while on the phone asked them about this. (I am not booked on this B2B, but I hate to see what could be misinformation posted)

The agent immediately contacted the Legal Department and they will look into this issue - IF it is even an issue. So, don't go canceling anything yet until it is verified if this is even a problem!

 

[WoodysMIL]

I happened to call DCL today and while on the phone asked them about this. (I am not booked on this B2B, but I hate to see what could be misinformation posted)

The agent immediately contacted the Legal Department and they will look into this issue - IF it is even an issue. So, don't go canceling anything yet until it is verified if this is even a problem!

Please let us know what they say.

At this point I have to go with what I've been told based on the years of experience in Maritime Law and the work that my friend has done with MARAD.

 

[CruisinEars]

I was a Res Agent for Princess and this scenario is most definitely a violation of the PVSA. You cannot book those 2 cruises as they would be transporting you from one US city to another on a foreign flagged vessel with no DISTANT foreign port visited. You have to look at the beginning port and the ending port. Now if it transports you from Vancouver to LA, then no problem since it starts in one country and ends in another. Princess has several Coastal cruises that cannot be booked b2b so we ran into this situation frequently.

 

[ThePhantomsGirl]

I'm not booked on that B2B, so they'll not contact me as it does not affect me at all. They would contact anyone who booked if it were an issue.

You could be correct, you could be incorrect. It's in DCL's hands right now.

 

[WAMUMOF4]

I was a Res Agent for Princess and this scenario is most definitely a violation of the PVSA. You cannot book those 2 cruises as they would be transporting you from one US city to another on a foreign flagged vessel with no DISTANT foreign port visited. You have to look at the beginning port and the ending port. Now if it transports you from Vancouver to LA, then no problem since it starts in one country and ends in another. Princess has several Coastal cruises that cannot be booked b2b so we ran into this situation frequently.

I'm totally by all this info because that is what it does cruise 1 Seattle to Alaska finish in Vancouver Cruise 2 Vancouver to LA.
How do we find out for sure what is correct?

 

[diane648]

I remember reading a post here from someone who was trying to change their dates on the phone with Disney, and they were not allowed to book the B2B because it would have been a violation of the PSVA.

 

[sabrecmc]

It isn't the same, I realize, but we did the LA-Vancouver-Vancouver-Vancouver B2B in 2011 when we did the Pacific repo and 1st Alaskan. We did have to get off the ship and go through check-in, security and all again in Vancouver, just like we were getting onto a new cruise (though we did have a sort of "priority" line). Not sure if that matters for this scenario, but that is what we did.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

I'm totally by all this info because that is what it does cruise 1 Seattle to Alaska finish in Vancouver Cruise 2 Vancouver to LA.
How do we find out for sure what is correct?

Yes, it would be booked as 2 separate cruises. But, because you board in one US city and disembark in a different US city on the same ship, the PVSA sees it as one cruise. And a foreign-flagged ship cannot carry passengers from one US city to a different US city without a distant foreign port being visited. A distant foreign port is defined as any port not in North America or the Caribbean.

I'd suggest, if you are booked on this B2B, you really need to call DCL and ask them if they have checked out the PVSA laws regarding this. And get it in writing if they say you're OK to do this particular B2B.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

It isn't the same, I realize, but we did the LA-Vancouver-Vancouver-Vancouver B2B in 2011 when we did the Pacific repo and 1st Alaskan. We did have to get off the ship and go through check-in, security and all again in Vancouver, just like we were getting onto a new cruise (though we did have a sort of "priority" line). Not sure if that matters for this scenario, but that is what we did.

That particular B2B is OK because you were not boarding in one US city and disembarking in a different US city.

A cruise that starts in the US and travels to a foreign port only has to visit a near foreign port for it to be OK.

 

[ImprovGal]

Won't we find out after the 5/14 and 5/21 Wonder cruises? Those are the same sort of itinerary, only in reverse. Or are they giving the B2B cruisers there the opportunity to debark on 5/20 in Vancouver and spend the night on shore before boarding the ship for the 5/21 cruise? Or perhaps if space is available, they can let them early board initially on 5/13 when my 4/28 Hawaii cruise docks in Ensenada?

 

[WoodysMIL]

Won't we find out after the 5/14 and 5/21 Wonder cruises? Those are the same sort of itinerary, only in reverse. Or are they giving the B2B cruisers there the opportunity to debark on 5/20 in Vancouver and spend the night on shore before boarding the ship for the 5/21 cruise? Or perhaps if space is available, they can let them early board initially on 5/13 when my 4/28 Hawaii cruise docks in Ensenada?

I could be wrong...but I believe the difference with that particular situation is that the ship arrives on on day and leaves on another day. So therefore the PVSA law does not apply.