Probate and Estate's responsibility for the making the house sellable?

I am getting stressed just reading this thread!
My 80-year-old mother refuses to get a will and says it will be our problem to deal with when the time comes.
She has not done anything to upkeep her home over the years and will not allow us to come in and sort things and is a qvc addict.
Two brothers don't speak now so it should be a real party when she goes!
 
I am getting stressed just reading this thread!
My 80-year-old mother refuses to get a will and says it will be our problem to deal with when the time comes.
She has not done anything to upkeep her home over the years and will not allow us to come in and sort things and is a qvc addict.
Two brothers don't speak now so it should be a real party when she goes!
I feel for you. I was able to talk my dad into finally getting a will and he passed 3 months later. It would have been a huge legal and financial mess.
 
The house is in a trust and there is a will. So while there may be a legal battle on the horizon over how the executor sister is handling the estate, in most states Probate would not be necessary no matter the value of the items in the house.
IF the trust and will are written correctly that is is true. My point being it all depends on the wording of those documents.
 
Legally I am sure it is different but if I had a sibling that was living in the house I would fully expect them to be the ones that clean it out.
 

Legally I am sure it is different but if I had a sibling that was living in the house I would fully expect them to be the ones that clean it out.
Not me, there is no way a hoarder is going to let someone get rid of anything even if they live there. Emptying a house that’s been lived in for decades is a huge task (btdt). It also costs money.
 
Legally I am sure it is different but if I had a sibling that was living in the house I would fully expect them to be the ones that clean it out.

At a minimum at least have STARTED since, if I recall correctly, OP said his friend's mother had passed a year ago.

My in-laws are hoarders. It's bad, I've not been in their home in probably 10 years? Compounded by the fact that one of "things" my MIL hoards is cats, lots of them. We know the difficulty of trying to get people to clean up, but they won't hear of it. So we (my husband, his brother & myself & my SIL) have plans in place, plan A if my FIL passes away first, plan B if my MIL passes away first, Plan C if they need to move to assisted living or what have you...all this pre-planning on how to deal with the hoards of two different hoarders in a multitude of different situations. But I'm telling you, the minute we can get to it the sled dumpster is being ordered!
 
If she's getting terms mixed up, she might not even mean the house is in a trust. She could have heard there is no will so the house is INTESTATE. She may have heard the "T" and thought that word means "In Trust."

If there is no will the estate is intestate. The sister self-appointed herself as the executor and can remain if no one challenges her. All the heirs (siblings) have to sign a form agreeing she can be executor, which a lawyer draws up.

If the siblings object to her as executor, like Kim and the brother due to her pulling this paying for cleaning the house and getting out in 30 days, an administrator can be hired to handle the duties. (They usually get a percentage of the estate as a fee, at least in NY.)
Could be. That was what happened to me when my mom died with an invalid will. I was assigned as the administrator of my mom's estate by the courts. I believe that my sister had to sign off on it. I did look in the online probate records for Cook County and there were no records for Kim's mom, so she has not been assigned legally as the administrator. Kim mentioned a lawyer, so maybe they are waiting for the sale of the house before they file the paperwork.

If the estate is in intestate, then the estate needs to go through probate because the house is worth more than $100,000 *and* the sister is required disburse the estate equally. I think it's probably OK for the sister to remain the executor. I think the legal system will put the brakes on her disbursement shenanigans.

I agree that there may be a misunderstanding of terms. I would be very surprised if someone had the foresight and organization to put a house in a trust but not the pre-planning to have a will. A will is a lot cheaper and easier to draw up and covers all the things that fall outside of the trust - such as bank accounts etc.

I was thinking the same thing. I found it to be odd that the $150k house was in a trust but there was no will.
 
Not me, there is no way a hoarder is going to let someone get rid of anything even if they live there. Emptying a house that’s been lived in for decades is a huge task (btdt). It also costs money.
It cost me more than $15,000 to clean my mom's house.
 
I am getting stressed just reading this thread!
My 80-year-old mother refuses to get a will and says it will be our problem to deal with when the time comes.
She has not done anything to upkeep her home over the years and will not allow us to come in and sort things and is a qvc addict.
Two brothers don't speak now so it should be a real party when she goes!
And my mother keeps trying to get us to come in and clean things out. But, she wants to look over our shoulders thinking we should have the same desire to have her stuff as she has. If we do get rid of stuff she will just get new stuff. All the kids have decided to just wait until they are dead to clean it out. Two (or more) sides to every story.
 
I would expect them to clean out their own stuff, but not the entire house.
Unless it had been agreed that they would clean the house in exchange for continuing to live in the house after mother’s death I would only expect them to clean their own stuff. Two things, first is to communicate. Yes, these conversations can be difficult but probably less so than a permanent estrangement from a sibling. Second, get it in writing. Just call it a memo or memorialization of an agreement. Otherwise, it turns into he/she says.
 
Could be. That was what happened to me when my mom died with an invalid will. I was assigned as the administrator of my mom's estate by the courts. I believe that my sister had to sign off on it. I did look in the online probate records for Cook County and there were no records for Kim's mom, so she has not been assigned legally as the administrator. Kim mentioned a lawyer, so maybe they are waiting for the sale of the house before they file the paperwork.

If the estate is in intestate, then the estate needs to go through probate because the house is worth more than $100,000 *and* the sister is required disburse the estate equally. I think it's probably OK for the sister to remain the executor. I think the legal system will put the brakes on her disbursement shenanigans.



I was thinking the same thing. I found it to be odd that the $150k house was in a trust but there was no will.
And if that is the case, they cannot sell the house until an estate is opened and someone is appointed to administer the estate. I am in that situation right now. Ex-Brother died intestate. I opened an estate and had the one surviving relative submit a consent to allow me to be administrator (Personal representative is the term in Maryland) and the house is currently under contract (expected to close next week). I could not do anything legally with the house or anything else until the estate was opened.

Kim also cannot be forced to move until an estate is opened if the house is indeed not in a trust.
 
IF the trust and will are written correctly that is is true. My point being it all depends on the wording of those documents.
Yes, and that is a big depends.
 
Dang, it seems like every person posting here has hoarders for parents. I'm starting to question that use of the term.
Not me. My hoarder was my brother but he lived with my mother for a while and made a mess of her house and after I got him out, he went back to his hoarder house and then died.

My mother always kept an orderly clutter free home. It was very sad to see her living in the hoarder house before I rescued her.
 
Dang, it seems like every person posting here has hoarders for parents. I'm starting to question that use of the term.

Not gonna lie, before I met my in-laws and really came to experience their form of hoarding, I threw the term around.
Here is what we are dealing with:
Cats. everywhere, kittens in the bathroom because one of the cats had them on a towel in there. None taken to vet with any regularity, hardly any fixed. Indoor, outdoor. Feral.
An entire room devoted to crafts and yarn bought on ebay and other auction sites. Boxes stacked floor to ceiling.
Living room with a loveseat & two chairs. Room on two chairs to sit, every other surface in living room covered with blankets, towels, trinkets, pillows, random decor. Can no longer access the house from front door into living room because of 'stuff' in front of it. Hallways lined with stuff.
Kitchen - cabinets with doors hanging off of them. Piles and PILES of random bakeware and serving dishes. A pile of dishes on every surface. Overflowing trash can. Open cans of cat food and foam paper plates with dry cat food on kitchen floor. Bags upon bags of plastic grocery bags, empty used containers all over the floor. A large, old freezer that has old food put in foam cups - no lids, just randomly placed in there with old, OLD food. I'm talking - got 5 berries left? Put them in a cup and in the freezer and forget about them.
Back porch filled with random bags of stuff that leads from kitchen to outside. Just enough room to walk thru door to enter. More bags & boxes full of old, used containers like jelly jars, plastic bowls like cool whip comes in - food storage things like that.
Outside - porch with old freezer on it. Old, broken items. Yard full of random crap, old plastic Christmas decorations and plastic flowers just laying around. Broken mowers. 4 storage sheds full of random stuff they've accumulated...like old aluminum siding parts and toilets. There are at least 6 of them in there - my FIL used to work, about 20 years ago now - for a major trailer home manufacturer and so when folks bought a new trailer my FIL would install them & fix anything that was broken in transit to site. And he brought it all home with him 'in case' he needed it.

And that is just a snapshot of it. It means something to them, but has no sentimental or monetary value and so we've had to make those plans I mentioned up thread to get the ball rolling to get rid of it all when the time comes. I keep a list of cleaning companies, roll off dumpster outfits, dumps & Goodwill type outfits for anything that might be worth passing on to someone. Plus services for seniors in need for when the times. Depending on who passes away first, we have different plans to deal with each of his folks as they each collect/hoard different things. All this while keeping them at arms length because we just can no longer deal with the situation.
 
Dang, it seems like every person posting here has hoarders for parents. I'm starting to question that use of the term.
My mom isn't to the point of living in filth and hoarding trash, like you see on Hoarders. But the basement is completely full of stuff. The garage is too full of stuff to fit any cars in. One upstairs bedroom is being overtaken by stuff. There are piles of clothes in her room because there is too much to fit in the closet and dressers and she doesn't get rid of anything.
My grandmother (my dad's mother, oddly enough) was very much the same. She never threw anything away if it might still have use.
 
It should come as no shock that the sister wants to close probate. Is there an option for the brother and sister to buy out the other siblings? They could buy the house and continue to live there in whatever condition the house is in.

It would be an easy matter of selling the house to the sibling(s) (for fair market value) and then dividing up the proceeds. Yes, the person who bought it would have a mortgage, but at least they could stay where they are.
 
Dang, it seems like every person posting here has hoarders for parents. I'm starting to question that use of the term.
I was thinking the same thing :-) When my Grandma passed away, her house was full - every closet/cupboard/storage area had stuff in it, but I would never have called her a hoarder - she just lived there for 50 years and accumulated a lot of stuff.
 
And if that is the case, they cannot sell the house until an estate is opened and someone is appointed to administer the estate. I am in that situation right now. Ex-Brother died intestate. I opened an estate and had the one surviving relative submit a consent to allow me to be administrator (Personal representative is the term in Maryland) and the house is currently under contract (expected to close next week). I could not do anything legally with the house or anything else until the estate was opened.

Kim also cannot be forced to move until an estate is opened if the house is indeed not in a trust.
When my dad died, my mom had to go to probate and we signed everything over to her - Louisiana law has the estate goes to spouse and then children.
My father in law died with a will and left everything to his spouse (my husband's step mother) and then when his step mother died a few weeks ago, the will has my sister-in-law as the executor. She has much more time available to do all the tasks and my husband has and is helping as much as she needs.

I hope that the rest of the process is not stressful, but time will tell.
 












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