Pro Choice or Not

[Freyja]

I don't neccessarily think that a teens life would be *ruined* if they had a baby, but I think a lot of people do, and I think in some cases it's true..
I think it goes back to what i posted in another thread... If you think it's a full fledged human being from day one than you are going to view things very differently from someone who view a first trimester embyo/fetus/baby as a potential human... If you believe the unborn first trimester *baby* is = to a born human, you are probably going to have a harder time dealing with abortions...

I was 15 when I got pregnant. I was 6 weeks along when I found out and had been dating the baby´s dad for exactly 6 weeks at that time. It was a complete shock. I had never imagined becoming a teen mom. No one I knew was a teen mom. People in my family had all finished college, bought apartments, etc. before they had children. The same had always been expected from me.

I am pro-choice and I knew that abortion was an option. I contemplated it for a day or two. Then I decided against it and decided to have the baby. I decided, although DBF was very supportive. I knew, that ultimately I would be the one who would have to deal with the consequences so therefore the decision would have to be mine.I knew I had messed up but I knew that I was strong enough to take responsibility for my actions in the way I felt was most right for me.

See, having an abortion, can also be taking responsibility. It´s all about feelings, situations and circumstances. For you AND the baby. It was just not right for me.

DBF and I (he was 3 years older than me) decided to move in together when I was 16. During a sonogram we found out our baby had Gastroschisis, a disorder where the abdomen doesn´t close and the baby is born with it´s intestines out. We knew he would have to have an operation after birth and stay for a long time in NICU. All of this made us stronger. We were not only dealing with having a baby but having a sick baby.

We were lucky. We were very much in love and very early found a "rythm" that suited us both. We knew we didn´t want to be "kids with a kid" so we decided to follow the dreams we had pre-baby. A good education, moving abroad for further education, etc.

When DS was born, DH went to highschool during the day, and when he came home after school and work, I went to evening school. When I came home late in the evening he went to work again.

This got us through his last year in highschool and the next year was much easier. He went to university and was able to get a student loan.

When DS was 2 we had DD and got married. I was 18 with 2 kids and we were both in school. I finished highschool 2 years later and we moved to Denmark where my DH took his masters and started his own business while I got my bachelour degree and then proceeded with my master in Intercultural Management.

We have now been married for 10 years, have 4 children, own a successful business and a beautiful home.

Having DS was the best thing I could have done in that situation. He made me see what I wanted to do with my life. He made me stronger.


One of my best friends ( we weren´t friends at that time though) got pregnant at 16. She had dropped out of school, was out of work, had a horrible, abusive boyfriend and no real support system. She decided to have an abortion. We have often discussed this and she says that she has never regretted that decision. She is still happy, in fact, that she didn´t bring a child into these horrible circumstances.

A couple of years later she had a wonderful boyfriend, a good job, an apartment and found herself pregnant again. She decided to keep the baby. They have now been together 10 years and have 2 children. Are incredibly happy. For her, abortion, at the age of 16, was definately the right decision.

Different things work for different people.

 

[SandraVB79]

It is totally blowing me away too!!!!

I am thinking why did people vote for Bush knowing his agenda was to abolish abortion. That was the reason for his election.

It really has me stumped.

FWIW, voting (for or against Bush) is strictly American. The DIS is international. I am sorry we (internationals) are confusing you by interfering (sp?) in this poll.

 

[Tantor]

I am female and very strongly pro-choice.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

FWIW, voting (for or against Bush) is strictly American. The DIS is international. I am sorry we (internationals) are confusing you by interfering (sp?) in this poll.

Apology accepted.

One good snarky, deserves another.

ETA.....
Seriously her poll did not include that. It certainly would have been interesting to seperate that out. I wonder how many here are not American. It does change the way I view the poll now.

 

[LuvDuke]

another question for all pro-choice people -

Would you be opposed to mothers (especially young mothers) seeking an abortion to be couseled about adoption first. Not saying that their right to an abortion is at all jepordised, just that before they had the procedure and they were being counseled about it, that someone would first talk to them about what their other options were. I mean, if someone is pro-choice, then they should be all for someone actually being presented with choices, not just the quickest way out. No pressure, just information.

Many very pro-choice people I know freak out at that suggestion. All of the sudden they feel that that is going to stand in the way of womans rights etc. etc. I just think that many times a girl is desperate, and doesn't know where to go about adoption, how it works, if there will be legal fees, and lets face it, any 16 yr old with a drivers licence knows where to go and how to get an abortion .

What type of counseling are you talking about? There's the "here's all your options" type of counseling. Then there's the "here look at these pictures of dead fetuses" type of counseling, and btw, if you decide to have this baby, we'll drop you like a hot potato once it's born .......... good luck.

Pardon me if I'm a little suspicious of pro-lifers bearing gifts.

 

[LuvDuke]

It is none of business what a woman does with her body either, it is the unborn babies body I'm concerned about.

When it's part of my body, you can keep your "concern" to yourself.

Btw, if you're so concerned about unborn babies, are you also lobbying for mandated pre-natal care for all pregnant women? Are you lobbying for mandated nurse's visits 6 months after the baby's born like most civilized countries do in this world? Or are you only interested in babies as long as they're in someone else's womb?

Having seen the pro-life lobby in action, pardon me if I question just how benign this "concern" really is.

 

[LindsayDunn228]

I was 15 when I got pregnant. I was 6 weeks along when I found out and had been dating the baby´s dad for exactly 6 weeks at that time. It was a complete shock. I had never imagined becoming a teen mom. No one I knew was a teen mom. People in my family had all finished college, bought apartments, etc. before they had children. The same had always been expected from me.

One might argue that not being sexually active at 15 and not sleeping with a guy you have only been dating 6 weeks as taking responsibility as well.

ETA: Wait a second. You were 6 weeks along and you had been dating the boy for 6 weeks? Just trying to understand, but did you sleep with the boy the day you met?

 

[Freyja]

One might argue that not being sexually active at 15 and not sleeping with a guy you have only been dating 6 weeks as taking responsibility as well.

ETA: Wait a second. You were 6 weeks along and you had been dating the boy for 6 weeks? Just trying to understand, but did you sleep with the boy the day you met?

Not that it´s any of your business when I chose to have sex, but I got pregnant approx. 4-5 days after we started dating.

I never said that getting pregnant was the most responsible thing to do. I said that in the aftermath it differs from person to person what is the "most responsible thing to do".

 

[LindsayDunn228]

Ok, fair enough I wasn't flaming you, BTW. Was just curious.

 

[SandraVB79]

abstinence is 100%

Isn't there one case where that didn't work?

How anyone feels like they can judge you for the decisions you have made is beyond me. I guess it's easy for some people to see other peoples lives in terms of black and white. You made the right decision for you and your family and you have my sympathy.

No one has the right to judge your decisions in your life. You were faced with a tragic situation, and you made the right decision for you and your family. It must have been such a painful time in your life.

I have to say that I truly find you to be an inspiration. You are a very strong and compassionate person.

What they said!!

Apology accepted.

One good snarky, deserves another.

ETA.....
Seriously her poll did not include that. It certainly would have been interesting to seperate that out. I wonder how many here are not American. It does change the way I view the poll now.

I know, and I think that may influence the results a little bit.
I'm from a very liberal country (heck, everything is legal here!), which has an influence on my ideas, opinions, ... I think there may be more cases like this.
However, that doesn't change the fact that different people have different opinions, and it's great to hear all of them.

 

[LuvDuke]

Its a tough issue (understatement of the century). One that has continued to haunt our country and divide us for decades with no end in sight. In the end, I am a woman and I am pro choice. I never had an abortion. Does that make me moral? No just lucky to have only gotten pregnant by a loving husband with a wanted, tried for baby. I mean nobody really likes the idea of having an abortion, I know of no women who prayed for or asked to be put in that position. Its often a choice made out of terror, desparation, isolation, medical necessity and in the end a painful thing that will never be forgotten. So while my childbearing years seem to be over, my 10 year old daughter's will be beginning soon enough. Do I want her to have an abortion? Of course not. But I want her to have the choice. Because the painful instances that often lead to abortion don't just happen to other people, they can happen to anyone, even God forbid my daughter. So I want her to have that option. The choice to have one in a clean, medical environment from a doctor who is certified to practice medicine. Not in some back alley by a butcher. Being pro choice isn't necessarily about being pro abortion, anti dad's rights or any of the other things people say being pro choice is about. You can hate the concept of abortion. But you need to think carefully about saying illegalizing them is the answer. Because to the best of my knowledge, making something against the law never made it disappear. In my mind, the best way to satisfy your worry and oppostion of abortion is to educate yourself and your loved ones about this issue, and how to avoid pregnancy. Then of course remember that everything you think you know about abortion and why its wrong can become a moot point real quick if the tables turn and the unthinkable happens anyway as it so often does in situations so uncontrollable we haven't even thought of them. Remember that sometimes our most set in stone ideals will either drive us to be humbled or make into a hypocrite.

If anyone really wants to dive into this issue, rent the movie "If These Walls Could Talk". It may may make you think twice about what you think you feel and know regarding this issue.

This country is NOT divided over the issue of abortion. The mainstream position has always been to keep abortion legal with some restrictions. Nearly 20% favor NO restrictions. The American public overwhelmingly does NOT support overturning Roe v Wade. It's the anti-choice tail that's been wagging the dog for the last 30 years. Those who want to ban abortion are a minority who bought themselves a political party.

We are not divided over abortion. The mainstream is very definitely united.

http://www.pollingreport.com/abortion.htm

 

[LuvDuke]

I was just going to say the same thing. The children up for adoption were placed for adoption after they were in the "cute, brand new perfect baby" stage. They have been abused, have health problems caused by parental neglect, or fetal alcohol syndrome etc. I am not saying it is right - it's awlful that more people don't want to take these children. Also most kids in foster care are not up for adoption, their parents have not had their rights taken away permenantly. But I doubt there is one healthy new baby in the nation up for adoption that isn't spoken for. Just look in your local paper under the adoption section and read all the "pure your heart out" ads begging for a baby. There are people who want the babies that are being aborted.

They're begging for "white, healthy" babies and not just for any baby.

 

[alldiz]

another question for all pro-choice people -

Would you be opposed to mothers (especially young mothers) seeking an abortion to be couseled about adoption first. Not saying that their right to an abortion is at all jepordised, just that before they had the procedure and they were being counseled about it, that someone would first talk to them about what their other options were. I mean, if someone is pro-choice, then they should be all for someone actually being presented with choices, not just the quickest way out. No pressure, just information.

Many very pro-choice people I know freak out at that suggestion. All of the sudden they feel that that is going to stand in the way of womans rights etc. etc. I just think that many times a girl is desperate, and doesn't know where to go about adoption, how it works, if there will be legal fees, and lets face it, any 16 yr old with a drivers licence knows where to go and how to get an abortion .

I think all options should be discussed.....

Maybe not with the dead baby slide show that usually
goes with that discussion....

I asked earlier in the thread....here goes again....

All of the strong anti choice people out there....
HAVE YOU ADOPTED ANY UNWANTED CHILDREN....
Cause there are plenty.....no need to have more.
Kerri

 

[Soubrette]

What type of counseling are you talking about? There's the "here's all your options" type of counseling. Then there's the "here look at these pictures of dead fetuses" type of counseling, and btw, if you decide to have this baby, we'll drop you like a hot potato once it's born .......... good luck.

Pardon me if I'm a little suspicious of pro-lifers bearing gifts.

I find it disingenuous, to say the least, tha many pro-lifers are pushing mandated "counseling." First, as has been show time and again, their concern is not for the mother, so any "counseling" they would support would be coersive in its attempt to prevent abortions. And if it wasn't, they wouldn't support the public funding to make it a reality.

Counseling should be an option, but never a mandate. To suggest that all women seeking an abortion need counseling is to put forward a belief that they are unable to make their own rational decisions.

 

[LuvDuke]

Ya know, I know that abortion won't be overturned, if at all, most likely never during my lifetime. but I just wish that there could be more compromise. It is always so black and white. One side says all abortion is wrong and won't be happy unless all are made illegal, the other side, says all abortions should be legal. Yet most people who say they are pro-choice really say that because they want the choice available for an extreme situation, however the majority of abortions are preformed for convienence. Even though I consider all human life valuable and equal, if there were any restrictions put on it, at least some lives could be saved. I would be happy for any restrictions, it would be better than where we are now. From the tone of the thread, would it be safe to assume that the majority of people would be ok with SOME changes made?

Like a law requiring all women to be first counseled and given literature of alternative choices, like adoption and how to proceed with one if chosen?

A law restricting IVF doctors from fertilizing more eggs at a time than the mother is willing to carry to term.

I think the law works just fine the way it is. It's a privacy issue between a woman and her doctor.

 

[my4kids]

When it's part of my body, you can keep your "concern" to yourself.

Btw, if you're so concerned about unborn babies, are you also lobbying for mandated pre-natal care for all pregnant women? Are you lobbying for mandated nurse's visits 6 months after the baby's born like most civilized countries do in this world? Or are you only interested in babies as long as they're in someone else's womb?

Having seen the pro-life lobby in action, pardon me if I question just how benign this "concern" really is.

Everyone doesn't fit perfectly into two separate camps. It is possible to believe that human life starts at conception and that it is a separate life from the mother, and still care about the mothers, and be a good person. You make it out like I (and all other pro-lifers) are all crazed horrible people that don't care about birth mothers, and just want our way. Why so defensive?

 

[LuvDuke]

I don't think they need to be told the options. They know the options, that's why they're at the clinic.

Option 1: Give birth.
Option 2: Have an abortion.

So long as it is legal, people ought to be able to go about their business without any "help" or any lectures. That's my opinion, anyway.

I agree with you 100%.

 

[my4kids]

They're begging for "white, healthy" babies and not just for any baby.

I know, it's gross, but it true.

 

[LuvDuke]

I agree with this, EVERYONE I know and have ever heard speak is not for abortions after the first trimester. So why is it that we can't even outlaw partial birth abortions? And why is it that so many doctors are willing to "decide to underestimate the age of the fetus - wink wink" ?

My best friend in high school had an abortion. She was 18, and stupidly selfish, and slept unprotected with the boy next-door that she didn't even have a relationship with. (right after school, just a reminder to parents of teens, that most teenage pregnancies occur between 3:00 and 6:00, before the parents are home from work. )

She knew she was pregnant right when she missed her period. She could not let her father know, because he would have killed her and she didn't want to tell her mother. She told me and her sister. As bad as I felt for her, and she was my best friend, I had to step out of that situation based on my religious beliefs, I couldn't tell her what to do, but I was not going to help her seek an abortion, because that in my mind would make me an accessory to murder. So I felt like a horrible friend, but I had to just back away. She just decided to not do anything and worry about it next week, and than she decided she would worry about it the following week and "one more week wouldn't hurt" Not until she felt life moving in her did she freak and tell her mother, who marched her to OB for an abortion. The OB said "I can't abort this baby, it is way to far along and it would be illegal." It was a viable fetus, and it was no risk to her health. So her mom drove straight to a planned parenthood clinic and had that taken care of within hours. No questions asked. I think she put it off that long, knowing that some doctor somewhere would take care of it. I find that very upsetting. ( sidenote, she and I are still very close, even though she did the same thing in college (not as late in the pregnancy though) she understands my problem with it, and I understand that she ws raised differently than me, I love her, but not her decisions)

This is the other thing that I think is so mixed up about society. The biggest reason girls used to seek abortion was because the embarrassment of everyone in town knowing they had premarital sex. That kind of stigma was more than they could take. It was not accepted in society back then. But now, the very same parents who are ok with their kids having premarital sex, and buying them condoms, ("because they are going to do it anyway") would still have their child abort a pregnancy. They will tell me at dinner parties that they buy their child birth control, and are not at all embarrassed about it, but they would be embarrassed that their child was pregnant? Why? Why not just say " yeah, Jane made a mistake and was not careful, or Janes BC failed, and now she has to go through a pregnancy, but we found a nice family willing to take the baby" Everyone in town knows the kid was having sex anyway - i would not care at all if the girl was pregnant for 9 months. I would even take her a dinner. What is the stigma of being pregnant now, if there is NO stigma associated with pre-marital sex?

"Partial birth abortion" has been banned in this country except when the mother's life is at stake" The mother's health isn't a concern for the ones who favored this ban. Would you like to take concerns over the mother's life out of the law too?

 

[SallyfromDE]

What would be worse? An abortion or finding dead newborn in a trash can? When girls or couples can't face the truth, they just dump the poor baby. You hear this all the time. I'd rather they had the abortion.