Pro Choice or Not

[my4kids]

I don't see why anyone can't be told all available options.

Ya know, I know that abortion won't be overturned, if at all, most likely never during my lifetime. but I just wish that there could be more compromise. It is always so black and white. One side says all abortion is wrong and won't be happy unless all are made illegal, the other side, says all abortions should be legal. Yet most people who say they are pro-choice really say that because they want the choice available for an extreme situation, however the majority of abortions are preformed for convienence. Even though I consider all human life valuable and equal, if there were any restrictions put on it, at least some lives could be saved. I would be happy for any restrictions, it would be better than where we are now. From the tone of the thread, would it be safe to assume that the majority of people would be ok with SOME changes made?

Like a law requiring all women to be first counseled and given literature of alternative choices, like adoption and how to proceed with one if chosen?

A law restricting IVF doctors from fertilizing more eggs at a time than the mother is willing to carry to term.

 

[JennyMominRI]

I just needed to add that most Jewish authorities are Pro-choice... Jewish law applies to Jews,and Jews don't usually seek to enshrine their beliefs as laws.. Most Jewish organizations believe that this is a decicion that should be made between patient and doctor.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Ya know, I know that abortion won't be overturned, if at all, most likely never during my lifetime. but I just wish that there could be more compromise. It is always so black and white. One side says all abortion is wrong and won't be happy unless all are made illegal, the other side, says all abortions should be legal. Yet most people who say they are pro-choice really say that because they want the choice available for an extreme situation, however the majority of abortions are preformed for convienence. Even though I consider all human life valuable and equal, if there were any restrictions put on it, at least some lives could be saved. I would be happy for any restrictions, it would be better than where we are now. From the tone of the thread, would it be safe to assume that the majority of people would be ok with SOME changes made?

Like a law requiring all women to be first counseled and given literature of alternative choices, like adoption and how to proceed with one if chosen?

A law restricting IVF doctors from fertilizing more eggs at a time than the mother is willing to carry to term.

I have yet to meet anyone who believes all abortions should be allowed. Ok I take that back,I know one person who believes abortions should be legal any time for any reason. Most everyone I know believes there should be restrictions on elective abortions after the point of vibility and in many cases after the first trimester.. I personally favor restictions after the first 14 weeks or so...I have huge huge issues with elective abortions after 16 weeks.
I know people that have gone to PP..They were counseled on the options available

 

[Cool-Beans]

I don't see why anyone can't be told all available options.

I don't think they need to be told the options. They know the options, that's why they're at the clinic.

Option 1: Give birth.
Option 2: Have an abortion.

So long as it is legal, people ought to be able to go about their business without any "help" or any lectures. That's my opinion, anyway.

 

[JennyMominRI]

I don't think they need to be told the options. They know the options, that's why they're at the clinic.

Option 1: Give birth.
Option 2: Have an abortion.

So long as it is legal, people ought to be able to go about their business without any "help" or any lectures. That's my opinion, anyway.

Well, I do agree that most any girl over the age of 12 or so most likely knows what the options are...On the other hand I see no problem with making consessions.

 

[Amy&Dan]

Ya know, I know that abortion won't be overturned, if at all, most likely never during my lifetime. but I just wish that there could be more compromise. It is always so black and white. One side says all abortion is wrong and won't be happy unless all are made illegal, the other side, says all abortions should be legal. Yet most people who say they are pro-choice really say that because they want the choice available for an extreme situation, however the majority of abortions are preformed for convienence. Even though I consider all human life valuable and equal, if there were any restrictions put on it, at least some lives could be saved. I would be happy for any restrictions, it would be better than where we are now. From the tone of the thread, would it be safe to assume that the majority of people would be ok with SOME changes made?

Like a law requiring all women to be first counseled and given literature of alternative choices, like adoption and how to proceed with one if chosen?

A law restricting IVF doctors from fertilizing more eggs at a time than the mother is willing to carry to term.

I agree with you really. I certainly don't know anyone who is all, 100% pro abortioin in all instances regardless of how many weeks pregnant etc. But I think this is one issue that compromise is hard to come by. Partly because of the strong way we feel about it and partly because the very nature of pregnancy makes compromise difficult in many ways. Compromise often takes time and often that is in short supply in these situations. Lives, many lives are often on the line. As I said in my post, you can hate the concept of abortion. Certainly nobody likes it. But in the end making it illegal will not stop them and only kill more people. Because women will still get them for all kinds of reasons and a lot of them will die when they have the back alley abortions we saw pre Roe. v. Wade. So thats not a very pleasant altenrative in my book. I think your idea of informing women about other options is fine. I guess in the end if it makes one person rethinnk than thats worth it to you and maybe a good thing. I just also have to think however, that in the end if a woman is at that juncture in life, she has in all liklihood thought of the options on her own. And found those other options unworkable given her difficult situation. But it cannot hurt to make her aware again I suppose.

I also have to add that according to a friend of mine who had an abortion, she was given information both written and verbally about other options. She stuck with her decision but was glad they gave her the information.

 

[my4kids]

I have yet to meet anyone who believes all abortions should be allowed. Ok I take that back,I know one person who believes abortions should be legal any time for any reason. Most everyone I know believes there should be restrictions on elective abortions after the point of vibility and in many cases after the first trimester.. I personally favor restictions after the first 14 weeks or so...I have huge huge issues with elective abortions after 16 weeks.
I know people that have gone to PP..They were counseled on the options available

I agree with this, EVERYONE I know and have ever heard speak is not for abortions after the first trimester. So why is it that we can't even outlaw partial birth abortions? And why is it that so many doctors are willing to "decide to underestimate the age of the fetus - wink wink" ?

My best friend in high school had an abortion. She was 18, and stupidly selfish, and slept unprotected with the boy next-door that she didn't even have a relationship with. (right after school, just a reminder to parents of teens, that most teenage pregnancies occur between 3:00 and 6:00, before the parents are home from work. )

She knew she was pregnant right when she missed her period. She could not let her father know, because he would have killed her and she didn't want to tell her mother. She told me and her sister. As bad as I felt for her, and she was my best friend, I had to step out of that situation based on my religious beliefs, I couldn't tell her what to do, but I was not going to help her seek an abortion, because that in my mind would make me an accessory to murder. So I felt like a horrible friend, but I had to just back away. She just decided to not do anything and worry about it next week, and than she decided she would worry about it the following week and "one more week wouldn't hurt" Not until she felt life moving in her did she freak and tell her mother, who marched her to OB for an abortion. The OB said "I can't abort this baby, it is way to far along and it would be illegal." It was a viable fetus, and it was no risk to her health. So her mom drove straight to a planned parenthood clinic and had that taken care of within hours. No questions asked. I think she put it off that long, knowing that some doctor somewhere would take care of it. I find that very upsetting. ( sidenote, she and I are still very close, even though she did the same thing in college (not as late in the pregnancy though) she understands my problem with it, and I understand that she ws raised differently than me, I love her, but not her decisions)

This is the other thing that I think is so mixed up about society. The biggest reason girls used to seek abortion was because the embarrassment of everyone in town knowing they had premarital sex. That kind of stigma was more than they could take. It was not accepted in society back then. But now, the very same parents who are ok with their kids having premarital sex, and buying them condoms, ("because they are going to do it anyway") would still have their child abort a pregnancy. They will tell me at dinner parties that they buy their child birth control, and are not at all embarrassed about it, but they would be embarrassed that their child was pregnant? Why? Why not just say " yeah, Jane made a mistake and was not careful, or Janes BC failed, and now she has to go through a pregnancy, but we found a nice family willing to take the baby" Everyone in town knows the kid was having sex anyway - i would not care at all if the girl was pregnant for 9 months. I would even take her a dinner. What is the stigma of being pregnant now, if there is NO stigma associated with pre-marital sex?

 

[JennyMominRI]

She knew she was pregnant right when she missed her period. She could not let her father know, because he would have killed her and she didn't want to tell her mother. She told me and her sister. As bad as I felt for her, and she was my best friend, I had to step out of that situation based on my religious beliefs, I couldn't tell her what to do, but I was not going to help her seek an abortion, because that in my mind would make me an accessory to murder. So I felt like a horrible friend, but I had to just back away. She just decided to not do anything and worry about it next week, and than she decided she would worry about it the following week and "one more week wouldn't hurt" Not until she felt life moving in her did she freak and tell her mother, who marched her to OB for an abortion. The OB said "I can't abort this baby, it is way to far along and it would be illegal." It was a viable fetus, and it was no risk to her health. So her mom drove straight to a planned parenthood clinic and had that taken care of within hours. No questions asked. I think she put it off that long, knowing that some doctor somewhere would take care of it. I find that very upsetting. ( sidenote, she and I are still very close, even though she did the same thing in college (not as late in the pregnancy though) she understands my problem with it, and I understand that she ws raised differently than me, I love her, but not her decisions)

This is the other thing that I think is so mixed up about society. The biggest reason girls used to seek abortion was because the embarrassment of everyone in town knowing they had premarital sex. That kind of stigma was more than they could take. It was not accepted in society back then. But now, the very same parents who are ok with their kids having premarital sex, and buying them condoms, ("because they are going to do it anyway") would still have their child abort a pregnancy. They will tell me at dinner parties that they buy their child birth control, and are not at all embarrassed about it, but they would be embarrassed that their child was pregnant? Why? Why not just say " yeah, Jane made a mistake and was not careful, or Janes BC failed, and now she has to go through a pregnancy, but we found a nice family willing to take the baby" Everyone in town knows the kid was having sex anyway - i would not care at all if the girl was pregnant for 9 months. I would even take her a dinner. What is the stigma of being pregnant now, if there is NO stigma associated with pre-marital sex?

There is one situation I can think of that could require a D&X otherwise known as a PBA and that is a baby with severe anencephaly..I agree with a ban of intact D&X as long as there is a clause for this..

I can't agree with you about premarital sex though... I hope my kids wait until they are older but I really don't have an issue with premarital sex.
Living the life I have lived ,if I knew that my child were having sex, I would want him or her protected from AIDS and other STD's. I don't want them having sex at a young age,but on the other hand I don't want them to live like I have for 16 years as *punishment*

 

[my4kids]

There is one situation I can think of that could require a D&X otherwise known as a PBA and that is a baby with severe anencephaly..I agree with a ban of intact D&X as long as there is a clause for this..

I can't agree with you about premarital sex though... I hope my kids wait until they are older but I really don't have an issue with premarital sex.
Living the life I have lived ,if I knew that my child were having sex, I would want him or her protected from AIDS and other STD's. I don't want them having sex at a young age,but on the other hand I don't want them to live like I have for 16 years as *punishment*

Jenny, I think you misread me...... (I know I ramble and can be confusing at times) I don't have a problem with premarital sex either (well , I do if it's my kids, but I have a few years to worry about that)

I was 16 once, and remember how hard it was to not "do the deed" I know that most kids "are going to do it anyway" and I am all for supplying these kids with condoms, most especially so they don't go through what you are going though. But for the ones that end up pregnant anyway, why are they embarrassed into having an abortion? Like I said, their parents know they are having sex and are ok with it, their parents have bragged to everyone in town that they buy the kid BC. Why would they be embarrassed by an unplanned pregnancy? Pregnancy is a natural occurance related to sex. It's like the social thought on the sex has come a long way, but the social thought on the pregnancy is still in the dark ages.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Jenny, I think you misread me...... (I know I ramble and can be confusing at times)

I was 16 once, and remember how hard it was to not "do the deed" I know that most kids "are going to do it anyway" and I am all for supplying these kids with condoms, most especially so they don't go through what you are going though. But for the ones that end up pregnant anyway, why are they embarrassed into having an abortion? Like I said, their parents know they are having sex and are ok with it, their parents have bragged to everyone in town that they buy the kid BC. Why would they be embarrassed by an unplanned pregnancy? Pregnancy is a natural occurance related to sex. It's like the social thought on the sex has come a long way, but the social thought on the pregnancy is still in the dark ages.

I don't know.. I haven't really experienced that.. I knew of several teens
in Ca who got pregnant and kept their babies..I know one person who was embarrassed and pressured her daughter into an abortion because the baby would be biracial..I don't really get the sense that people are embarrassed that their kids got pregnant, they just don't want to see their kids lives *ruined*

I think I would feel like I failed as a parent if my daughter was having sex at 15..I think I would feel even worse if she got pregnant..Maybe that feeling is where some of it comes from.

 

[my4kids]

I don't know.. I haven't really experienced that.. I knew of several teens
in Ca who got pregnant and kept their babies..I know one person who was embarrassed and pressured her daughter into an abortion because the baby would be biracial..I don't really get the sense that people are embarrassed that their kids got pregnant, they just don't want to see their kids lives *ruined*

ok, I guess it may be a regional thing as well. In my neighborhood, parents would be embarrassed. About the "not seeing their kids lives ruined" part, I guess it is all relative. I know that if as a teen I had had an abortion for no other reason than it would have messed with my plans for the future, that would have ruined my life thinking about it. Others, I guess it doesn't. It amazes me that we were all created by the same power (who ever is right or wrong about Whom that power may be doesn't matter, because regardless of who is right the same power did make us) , yet we are all SO different and see things SO differently. Never ceases to amaze me.

 

[JennyMominRI]

ok, I guess it may be a regional thing as well. In my neighborhood, parents would be embarrassed. About the "not seeing their kids lives ruined" part, I guess it is all relative. I know that if as a teen I had had an abortion for no other reason than it would have messed with my plans for the future, that would have ruined my life thinking about it. Others, I guess it doesn't. It amazes me that we were all created by the same power (who ever is right or wrong about Whom that power may be doesn't matter, because regardless of who is right the same power did make us) , yet we are all SO different and see things SO differently. Never ceases to amaze me.

I don't neccessarily think that a teens life would be *ruined* if they had a baby, but I think a lot of people do, and I think in some cases it's true..
I think it goes back to what i posted in another thread... If you think it's a full fledged human being from day one than you are going to view things very differently from someone who view a first trimester embyo/fetus/baby as a potential human... If you believe the unborn first trimester *baby* is = to a born human, you are probably going to have a harder time dealing with abortions...

 

[my4kids]

ok , enough heavy stuff for one night, I'm going to bed.

 

[Mrs.Toad]

Ya know, I know that abortion won't be overturned, if at all, most likely never during my lifetime. but I just wish that there could be more compromise. It is always so black and white. One side says all abortion is wrong and won't be happy unless all are made illegal, the other side, says all abortions should be legal. Yet most people who say they are pro-choice really say that because they want the choice available for an extreme situation, however the majority of abortions are preformed for convienence. Even though I consider all human life valuable and equal, if there were any restrictions put on it, at least some lives could be saved. I would be happy for any restrictions, it would be better than where we are now. From the tone of the thread, would it be safe to assume that the majority of people would be ok with SOME changes made?

Like a law requiring all women to be first counseled and given literature of alternative choices, like adoption and how to proceed with one if chosen?

A law restricting IVF doctors from fertilizing more eggs at a time than the mother is willing to carry to term.

The trouble with restrictions (based on other than weeks gestation) is that they are so subjective. One persons "convenience" may be another's crisis. As for rape exceptions, who would determine whether the woman was really raped? Would date rape count? What if the woman was too drunk to really consent or object? and would that depend on whether she knowingly got herself drunk or if the guy spiked her drink with something stronger than she'd expected?

I know you didn't bring up rape exceptions, my4kids, I brought them up just because they seem to be commonly agreed upon by many pro-lifers. I'm also not expecting you or anyone else to answer these questions, they are hypothetical, really. I'm just trying to show that there are some grey areas where different people will interpret a situation differently.

So, it all boils down to this, IMO... The only person who can decide whether a specific abortion is justified, is the pregnant woman herself.

As for the changes you mentioned, I would have no problem with women being given information about all their options, as long as it's presented in a non-biased manner, and includes not only adoption, but information about resources that would help the woman parent her child if she so desires. I've heard far too many stories about "crisis pregnancy centers" that advertise themselves as being about options, then once they have the woman inside, tell her she's a sinner, going to hell if she has an abortion and pressure her to have the baby and place it for adoption.

I don't think you'd find much support for the in-vitro law, though. Too many people count on IVF and see it as a good thing. Few would want to make it even more expensive than it already is, or harder to get the woman pregnant. And fewer people consider the 5-day old blastocyst to be a human life, as compared to the embryo implanted in a woman's uterus.

 

[Alyssa88]

On of my best friends found out she was pregnant a little before high school graduation. She was very stressed and knew how much her plans would change if she kept it. They did use condom, but things happen and she became part of that .01%. She planned to abort the fetus, and I told her I would support her no matter her decision, but that I felt she was not giving it enough thought (I know her well enough to know how she normally makes decisions and I didn't want her to make a decision out of fear). She ended up keeping it, her son is 15 months old, and he really did change her life, in an extraordinary way. She is not the same person she used to be, she is a Mom first and foremost, everything she does is for that kid. I admire her so much. Her life is certainly not as glamorous as it could have been, but I think she wouldnt have it any other way.


I am glad she was able to make a choice. She was able to control her body and her future. I could not imagine a sitution in which a woman should not have the right to choose. Her body, thats all thats to it. Until a man can take on 50% of what the woman goes through, he does not deserve an equal say.

I personally have no idea what I would do in that situation, I don't think anyone can really know until they go through it.

My little sister was conceived by IVF, she is 14 now, love her to pieces. The embryos that were destroyed (although I personally feel my parents should have donated them to research) or did not "take" were worth it.

 

[BelleBoo&AmisMum]

Female, mom of three, firmly in the pro-choice camp. While it's not an option I ever want to be faced with again, it's an option that needs to remain available.

None of us are in the minds of the women that are faced with this choice, we don't know her background or what kind of support system she has. There is very little in the way of public support for women that choose the abortion, there is plenty of public opposition though. I had to drive through a large group of anti-abortion protesters by the mall today, not something I wanted to explain to my children. It took everything I had not to open my window and scream.

 

[SandraVB79]

I'm a woman and pro-choice. It's not because abortion is available, that you have to use it, but let it be available for those who think they need it.

 

[SandraVB79]

Should we legalize prostitution?

I'm still a female, and yes, it should be legal. Oh, wait, in my country, it is legal. Oh wait, in Antwerp, the city has evne buolt a building with rooms with extra security for the prostitutes to work in!

It's happening anyway, just make it safe and legal!

 

[SandraVB79]

Female, mom of one and 100% pro-choice.

That being said - I would love to see abortion go away. Not because it was made illegal - which we know won't do it. But because we have all become so educated about how to avoid an unwanted pregnancy and allow our children that same education, and also because we have found a way to keep women safe from rape and incest that an abortion is no longer necessary.

Is this going to happen? We can hope. But until then - it should remain legal and safe.

I would love to know how you can keep women safe from rape and incest. It's something that should be implemented in the whole world, it would make it a lot nicer for all women/ girls (man, such an invention, THE way to keep women safe, and large parts of the world don't even know about it???)

I am pro-life for myself and pro-choice for everyone else.

I like how you say that!

I am a woman and pro-life! When I was 6 weeks pregnant with my oldest child and saw her little heart beating on that ultrasound screen, it brought tears to my eyes thinking about what a miracle it was that this little person was growing inside me. I think all women who go to have an abortion should have an ultrasound before they make their final decision.

Great that you saw that hart beat and that everything is OK. Do realize that not every woman sees such great things on the monitor.

I agree with Kath 2003. I don't believe it is in my place to tell someone else what to do. I do not think Roe v Wade should be overturned and I do not think it is anyone else's BUSINESS if a woman chooses to have this done. I know two people who have had it done and it is NOT an easy choice.

The main reason I would like Roe v Wade to stand is that it can become far MORE reaching than abortion. There is now the beginnings of pharmacists being allowed to not fill presricptions for birth control pills. This is a slippery slope and needs to be left alone. Pro-Choice means exactly that pro-CHOICE. I don't want the government to tell me what I can do with my body. It could under a militant administration come to not allowing a woman to take birth control. What a woman does with her body is her business and NO ONE ELSE'S.

I am a woman and I am DEFINITELY Pro-CHOICE. By the way, I am a christian too.

Reeddi

No idea what that Roe vs Wade thing is, but it's awful that pharmacists do such things!! It's not up to them to decide what you do!

Question: How does everyone regard condoms? Is it up to the men to buy them, the women, or both? I believe both should always be prepared, and when time comes, it should be talked out. It shouldn't be a one/one situation, in my view, but both should have a say. "Yes, honey." "No, honey." Sure, there's probably going to be a standstill, but, in my view, better to have a say, than no say at all. Same with abortion, to me.

As a woman, I take birth control pills, that's my responsibility, and I do think it's the man's responsibility to provide and use the condoms. However, there's a saying that says that you only know that something is done right of you do it yourself, and since my thrust in men has somewhere disappeared, I always carry condoms with me too, just in case he doesn't have any. Better safe than sorry!

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Why not just say " yeah, Jane made a mistake and was not careful, or Janes BC failed, and now she has to go through a pregnancy, but we found a nice family willing to take the baby"

Ok...so who pays for that? Do we set up homes for teens that are prego by the government?
Afterall, if you are going to "find a family", these babies need to be under careful watch so the teens are NOT doing drugs and drinking.
A nice family wants a "clean" baby.

Nice thought but do you lose your freedom to choose because you got pregnant?

What about the guy? Does he go to a facility too? Or does he get to walk around free getting other girls pregnant?

Seriously, make it crime to get pregnant as a teen? Would that fix it?

You go to jail for underage sex?

Anyway....those are my thoughts on your idea.