Pro Choice or Not

[MrsKreamer]

I am keeping an eye on the poll. Not what I expected from the DISboards.

I can't jump into the abortion debate, it is like discussing the space-time continuum.

Like for example in HEROES, Hiro speaks with his future self!!!! Impossible.
Everyone knows according to Doc Brown in Back to the Future, Hermonie in Harry Potter and Star Trek you will cause a rift in space time and will forever loop and then eventually be destroyed.

What were they thinking in Heroes!

Sorry, back to the regularly scheduled chicken and egg debate.

OMG

 

[MrsKreamer]

Actually, I'm kind of surprised because I thought that Dis was more Conservative then the population as a whole. I think that most people are in favor of some sort of restrictions on abortion, be it parental notifications, waiting periods, restrictions after the first 12 weeks, but only the minority wants to outlaw entirely.

I agree with this.

 

[PaulaSB12]

Do people start these threads to puposefully get people to argue. Whatever the reason I can hardly resist sharing my views. I am pro choice as long as that choice is made BEFORE you get knocked up. I fully understand that there is no choice for rape victims and such (although I still do not think it is right) I do beleive your right for "Choice" ends when are stupid enough to have unprotected sex. I hate to hear of women using abortions as a form of birth control. It's ridiculous. You have a choice alright. You dont want a baby use birth control!!!!!

What happens if it fails? and none of them are 100% proof against pregnany.

 

[my4kids]

Totally agree with JCJRSmith, along with what if the Foetus is so badly damaged that there is little chance of survival or if there was survival the baby would be severely brain damaged etc, what would their quality of life be like?

BTW Female and very strongly pro choice.

Claire

I have a nephew born with severe brain damage, and this post made me cringe. Not one human on this earth can judge the quality of anothers life. Just because it doesn't look happy to you, you can not take a persons life because of it. My nephew can not sit up, talk, see, eat without a feeding tube, and trembles with severe CP contantly. He is not expected to have a long life. But, he does smile HUGE when he hears his mothers voice, when he feels sunlight on his face, and when he listens to music. As long as he can still get enjoyment from anything, he has a quality of life. As long as his lungs can hold a breath, he has quality of life. Many many many parents would have ended their pregnancy, not wanting to raise a child like him, and justified it by saying he was not going to have a good quality of life. I can not imagine the Earth without him. He has a wonderful quality of life. Its not what any parent would choose , but it is still their child.

BTW if you didn't guess, I am female and adamantly anti-abortion/pro-life.
A human life is a human life regardless of whether it's life is going to be like yours. where would that reason for abortion end? What if researchers find a way to tell if your child is going to have autism once they are born? Would that be reason to abort?

As far as the rape/incest cases, that absolutely rips my heart out. I would never condemn or judge a person who felt they needed to abort (at an extremely early stage) because of this. However, I still see that child as a human life, an innocent human life, and there are still people in the world who would LOVE to raise that child. Not carrying the child is not going to erase the rape, or damage done by the rape. It is one of those HORRIBLE things in life, but it still is ending a human life to me. Bad horrible things happen in life, I just don't feel we should be allowed to play God and try to make it the way we want it to be. I know I am about to get FLAMED for this, and don't bother, that is why we live in America and can vote, and judging by this pole (however unscientific) and other poles, abortion probably isn't going anywhere. I would be thrilled to at least see it outlawed except for in the case of life of the mother or rape.

By the way, if I had a pregnancy that was threatening my life, as long as that baby had a shot at survival, I would put that baby ahead of me, just as if it were one of my already born babies. I know not all feel this way. But I just can't separate my children in importance based on wether or not they are out of my body yet or not.

 

[my4kids]

What happens if it fails? and none of them are 100% proof against pregnany.

abstinence is 100%

 

[PaulaSB12]

abstinence is 100%

So you expect married couples only to have sex when they want children???????? There have always been ways of getting rid of unwanted children before or after birth, but these who are pro life never seem to have an answer to what happens to the child.

 

[my4kids]

So you expect married couples only to have sex when they want children???????? There have always been ways of getting rid of unwanted children before or after birth, but these who are pro life never seem to have an answer to what happens to the child.

Please. I was reponding a string of posts about "make your choice before you have sex and use BC". Then someone always says it is not 100% (usually someone isn't using right though if it doesn't work) but anyway, I was just adding that abstinence is 100% and an unmarried person still has a choice.

In the case of married couples, in the extremely rare occasion that BC used correctly failed, yes they should most definately have that baby. If they can't raise it, there will most definately be someone who would want to.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

OMG

I broke my rule and debated.

Debating abortion is like debating the space time continuum, UFO's, or gun control.

It is something that cannot be agreed upon. It is best to leave it to the majority and let democracy ensue.
If people vote it illegal state to state, then so be it.

The law in place is what is the majority. Pro-choice is the majority, esp. looking at this poll.
I wish all Americans voted to show our true colors again.

 

[barbeml]

I just don't feel we should be allowed to play God and try to make it the way we want it to be.

Just curious, do you believe that in vitro should be outlawed? I ask this because I knew an ultra conservative pro-life woman who constantly ranted about how abortion is "playing God...life begins at conception...any and all abortion is murder" yet she had in vitro, four of them "took" but she only wanted two children so two of the "embryos" were aborted (altho I'm sure she used some other term).

 

[MomNeedsVacay]

I have a nephew born with severe brain damage, and this post made me cringe. Not one human on this earth can judge the quality of anothers life. Just because it doesn't look happy to you, you can not take a persons life because of it. My nephew can not sit up, talk, see, eat without a feeding tube, and trembles with severe CP contantly. He is not expected to have a long life. But, he does smile HUGE when he hears his mothers voice, when he feels sunlight on his face, and when he listens to music. As long as he can still get enjoyment from anything, he has a quality of life. As long as his lungs can hold a breath, he has quality of life. Many many many parents would have ended their pregnancy, not wanting to raise a child like him, and justified it by saying he was not going to have a good quality of life. I can not imagine the Earth without him. He has a wonderful quality of life. Its not what any parent would choose , but it is still their child.

BTW if you didn't guess, I am female and adamantly anti-abortion/pro-life.
A human life is a human life regardless of whether it's life is going to be like yours. where would that reason for abortion end? What if researchers find a way to tell if your child is going to have autism once they are born? Would that be reason to abort?

As far as the rape/incest cases, that absolutely rips my heart out. I would never condemn or judge a person who felt they needed to abort (at an extremely early stage) because of this. However, I still see that child as a human life, an innocent human life, and there are still people in the world who would LOVE to raise that child. Not carrying the child is not going to erase the rape, or damage done by the rape. It is one of those HORRIBLE things in life, but it still is ending a human life to me. Bad horrible things happen in life, I just don't feel we should be allowed to play God and try to make it the way we want it to be. I know I am about to get FLAMED for this, and don't bother, that is why we live in America and can vote, and judging by this pole (however unscientific) and other poles, abortion probably isn't going anywhere. I would be thrilled to at least see it outlawed except for in the case of life of the mother or rape.

By the way, if I had a pregnancy that was threatening my life, as long as that baby had a shot at survival, I would put that baby ahead of me, just as if it were one of my already born babies. I know not all feel this way. But I just can't separate my children in importance based on wether or not they are out of my body yet or not.

 

[Tinijocaro]

Pro-life for baby and mom.

 

[MomNeedsVacay]

Just curious, do you believe that in vitro should be outlawed? I ask this because I knew an ultra conservative pro-life woman who constantly ranted about how abortion is "playing God...life begins at conception...any and all abortion is murder" yet she had in vitro, four of them "took" but she only wanted two children so two of the "embryos" were aborted (altho I'm sure she used some other term).

The Catholic church says invitro is wrong as well, although my niece was "conceived" that way (and would not have been otherwise)... My sister only had to viable embryos implanted and both took, one died very early on... my niece survived. She is now 21/2 y.o.

 

[my4kids]

Just curious, do you believe that in vitro should be outlawed? I ask this because I knew an ultra conservative pro-life woman who constantly ranted about how abortion is "playing God...life begins at conception...any and all abortion is murder" yet she had in vitro, four of them "took" but she only wanted two children so two of the "embryos" were aborted (altho I'm sure she used some other term).

Good question. The woman you knew was a huge hypocrite. I think there should be laws changing the way invitro is handled in this country. Because of the high costs, doctors retrieve many eggs and fertilize many and implant many just to cover the bases and make sure it "takes" the first time. I think that only a number of eggs should be fertilized to match the number of children the couple wants, and only that number should be implanted. Discarding of excess embryos, or freezing to later destroy excess embryos is ending a human life. Also "selective abortion" to decrease the number of implated fetuses absolutely makes me shudder. I always wonder how these parents decide which ones to kill. Excess embryos should be put up for adoption, or never created.

I have a friend who currently has 5 children in a freezer somewhere until she decides what to do with them. She will not put them up for adoption for a woman who can't produce eggs, but could carry a child. She says she rather dispose of the embryos rather than think of someone else raising her and her husbands children. She is not sure if she will have any implanted later or not. This is agonizing her every day, knowing that eventually she will have to have at least some of them disposed of. I personally view it diferently, I would rather my child have a shot at life with someone else than no shot at all. I again just see this whole process as "trying to play God and make things the way we want them"

 

[barbeml]

I again just see this whole process as "trying to play God and make things the way we want them"

You get points for being consistent! Thanks for answering.

 

[declansdad]

Like others I'm still kind of confused about the discussion you want to have. But in my post above responding to Ariel Mae I've tried to give some details of a hypothetical situation.

Is that a situation in which you'd say that the woman has properly given her husband a "say"?

The discussion that I was hoping to happen is exactly what you have done. You have tried to think up situations/scenarios and put then out for comment, instead of simply stating this is the way it is and this is the way it will always be.

In the situation that you have described, I think that yes I would agree that the wife had seriously considered the opinion of the husband. I have never said that if the man/husband said that he wanted the child that should be the final decision.

I don't know if there is an answer to this situation but I do believe that there has to be some form of consideration, especially in cases where abortion is being used strictly for birth control. Again, I am in favour of pro-choice but there must be a good reason for that choice.

 

[MomNeedsVacay]

I've learned some pretty harsh lessons in my life..It would take a long time to go through them..I used to see things in black and white and now I see them in shades of gray. I always said I would never have an abortion..I even carried a child I was advised to abort. I choose to keep that child bu trealized I can't imagine condemning a women for choosing differently.

I don't think abortion is a good thing, but I think it's a neccessary thing... I also did a bit of research on fetal development and all that I learned pretty much confirmed my belief that in early pregnancy a futus/embyro has no ability to think or to feel anything..I'm not saying it's not valuable at that point..It is..It's a potential life and should not be aborted lightly,but at that point , my priority is the living ,breathing function human being that is the mother.

My religious beliefs also play a part in why I'm pro choice

Fair enough.... BTW- I looked at your website and I think you are an inspiration. WE may not agree on this issue, but I'm inspired by your attitude and courage. I wish I could be more like you.

 

[chobie]

The discussion that I was hoping to happen is exactly what you have done. You have tried to think up situations/scenarios and put then out for comment, instead of simply stating this is the way it is and this is the way it will always be.

Oh, so this is the discussion you hope to have:

The woman is the one who is pregnant and therefore she is the one who gets to decide what happens. It has always been that way and always will be.


There is no need to bring up situations where the man gets mentally ill because the woman did not make the choice he wanted because that is not the discussion you wanted to have. Got it.

 

[declansdad]

Oh, so this is the discussion you hope to have:

The woman is the one who is pregnant and therefore she is the one who gets to decide what happens. It has always been that way and always will be.


There is no need to bring up situations where the man gets mentally ill because the woman did not make the choice he wanted because that is not the discussion you wanted to have. Got it.

What are you following me? I'm not on here for hours but as soon as I post you are right there lurking and waiting for me.

I thik both discussions are valid considering the points that have been raised in this thread and others.

 

[chobie]

What are you following me? I'm not on here for hours but as soon as I post you are right there lurking and waiting for me.

I thik both discussions are valid considering the points that have been raised in this thread and others.

No, been here for about an hour now. (Check out the thread about the morning after pill and look at the times) However, I did notice that you would go for hours without posting, ignore many people who addressed your comments, then suddenly when I made a comment were quick to throw out insults. But, all is fair in a disboard debate, I guess.


It's interesting that you keep trying to vilify me, but I'm not the only one who apparently does not get what you are trying to say.

If both discussions are valid, then why did you tell Smartest number Five that she should not have brought up hypothetical situations?

 

[declansdad]

No, been here for about an hour now. (Check out the thread about the morning after pill and look at the times) However, I did notice that you would go for hours without posting, ignore many people who addressed your comments, then suddenly when I made a comment were quick to throw out insults. But, all is fair in a disboard debate, I guess.


It's interesting that you keep trying to vilify me, but I'm not the only one who apparently does not get what you are trying to say.

If both discussions are valid, then why did you tell Smartest number Five that she should not have brought up hypothetical situations?

I give up!!!!

I go hours between posts because I do have other things that I do, like sleep.

I didn't tell anyone not to bring up hypothetical situations, that is what this whole discussion is about.