Pro Choice or Not

[Kath2003]

I think there needs to be a clear distinction;

You can be anti-abortion AND pro-choice.

You can be in favour of abortion being discouraged, counselling offered etc. and still allow women to make that choice. Many people here are that - even those who have no religious reason to back up their anti-abortion choice. Many believe that abortion is wrong but also do not believe that their opinion on this is so important that it should override the opinion of others.

 

[alldiz]

I think there needs to be a clear distinction;

You can be anti-abortion AND pro-choice.

You can be in favour of abortion being discouraged, counselling offered etc. and still allow women to make that choice. Many people here are that - even those who have no religious reason to back up their anti-abortion choice. Many believe that abortion is wrong but also do not believe that their opinion on this is so important that it should override the opinion of others.

Very well said.....
Kerri

 

[MomNeedsVacay]

I think there needs to be a clear distinction;

You can be anti-abortion AND pro-choice.

You can be in favour of abortion being discouraged, counselling offered etc. and still allow women to make that choice. Many people here are that - even those who have no religious reason to back up their anti-abortion choice. Many believe that abortion is wrong but also do not believe that their opinion on this is so important that it should override the opinion of others.

I don't understand.... if you believe abortion is WRONG for you....please explain why you think abortion is wrong at all....

 

[freckles and boo]

I think there needs to be a clear distinction;

You can be anti-abortion AND pro-choice.

You can be in favour of abortion being discouraged, counselling offered etc. and still allow women to make that choice. Many people here are that - even those who have no religious reason to back up their anti-abortion choice. Many believe that abortion is wrong but also do not believe that their opinion on this is so important that it should override the opinion of others.

I agree with almost everything you said here except discouraging abortion. It needs to dispassionately be presented with all the other options when a woman is facing a unplanned pregnancy. I HATE the idea of abortion. I makes me very, very sad. But I also know that until we deal with all the societal and medical problems that lead to abortion they will continue and must be safe. Actively discouraging a woman not to abort doesn't change her circumstances and may only make her feel even worse if she ultimately does do it. She should feel supported in whatever decision she ultimately makes. Of course I would love to see a healthy child born and an emotionally healthy family ready to raise it. Unfortunately, unless the child is white and completely healthy, people aren't stepping up in droves offering these babies homes.

 

[MomNeedsVacay]

I am a woman who is pro-choice...

I would like to know if the people who voted AGAINST abortion
have ADOPTED any unwanted children
Kerri

I have not adopted any children. I am not against adopting, I just cannot afford to do so. I DO, however, take care of MY responsiblities. I have many friends who were unable to have children and have adopted--- I'm positive that they thank God every day that the birth mothers decided not to abort
Their children.

 

[JoiseyMom]

Woman, Mother, anti-abortion for me, but Pro-Choice for others.

As far as the sperm donor, he can have a say in the choice if:

1) He pays 50% of ALL medical bills, vitamins, prescriptions

2) He pays 50% of ALL maternity clothing costs

3) For the first trimester - he has to take a teaspoon of ipecac every 4 hours to induce nausea and vomiting for 3 months and try to do your job when you'd rather just die

3) If any pay is lost due to missing work by the woman for doctors appts, hospitalizations, etc - He must forfeit an equal amount of pay.

4) He MUST take time off from work for every single doctor's appt, possibly putting his career on hold just like the woman possibly is

5) He pays for 50% of all baby needs - crib, sheets, mattresses, clothes

6) During the last trimester - he cannot tie his own shoes. He must rely on help to tie his shoes.

7) If he is a belly sleeper, he must be forced to sleep on his back as soon as his incubator cannot sleep on her tummy.

8) During labor, a nurse must kick him in the groin every 5 minutes, every 2 minutes, every 1 minute. He must learn to breathe through it without screaming.

If the guy wants 50% of the choice, he has to make 50% of the sacrifice

More seriously, while medicine has done miracles with child birth, it is still one of the most dangerous and life threatening experiences a woman can go through.

I know a woman that suffered an embolism during labor. She now has the mental capacity of a 6 month old. She will never enjoy her children, nor will her children know their mother.

Women still suffer seizures and a host of problems during childbirth.

It seems that many pro-life people believe that child birth is just a walk in the park without any kind of risk to the mother-to-be. It is still one of the most dangerous procedures a woman can go through.

You left out something really important. He needs to go to the bathroom every 15 minutes during the end of the pregnancy. Oh and lets not forget the episotomy stitches.

 

[MomNeedsVacay]

I agree with almost everything you said here except discouraging abortion. It needs to dispassionately be presented with all the other options when a woman is facing a unplanned pregnancy. I HATE the idea of abortion. I makes me very, very sad. But I also know that until we deal with all the societal and medical problems that lead to abortion they will continue and must be safe. Actively discouraging a woman not to abort doesn't change her circumstances and may only make her feel even worse if she ultimately does do it. She should feel supported in whatever decision she ultimately makes. Of course I would love to see a healthy child born and an emotionally healthy family ready to raise it. Unfortunately, unless the child is white and completely healthy, people aren't stepping up in droves offering these babies homes.

I am amazed at how you all feel that you can so clearly and condescendingly judge another person's "quality of life". Its as if a child isn't being raised in the suburbs in a $1,000,000 house with two parents and private schooling, they aren't going to have the most positive upbringing-- so might as well abort.

 

[JoiseyMom]

Gloria Steinem said it best years ago: If men could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament.

This is so true!!!!!!!!!!

 

[freckles and boo]

I am amazed at how you all feel that you can so clearly and condescendingly judge another person's "quality of life". Its as if a child isn't being raised in the suburbs in a $1,000,000 house with two parents and private schooling, they aren't going to have the most positive upbringing-- so might as well abort.

You don't have a clue what I am talking about. I have a child with autism who was born when I was 35. I was offered every test out there due to my "advanced maternal age". I declined them all. Why? Because I was confident that I could handle anything thrown my way and because she was a dearly WANTED child. I would not have had an abortion no matter what so I didn't feel the need for those tests. Even if they could have tested for her disability (which they can't) it would not have made a difference. She is a shining star in my life and if I had the attitude you accuse me of I couldn't be bothered raising her, could I? But that is me. I wouldn't begin to make decisions for other women.

I do have it pretty good. I am in a loving long-term marriage. I am not physically, emotionally, or verbally abused. I am not mentally or physically ill. I am not impoverished. I am not addicted to anything. I am not already mothering more children than I can handle. I am not 13 or 14 or 15 or 16 or 17 years old. I am not the victim of rape or incest. I am not afraid of my parents (or anyone else, for that matter!). I am not afraid that having another child would ruin my relationship with my husband or my children. I know that people welcome babies into their lives under horrible circumstances but not every woman can handle that and I don't feel it is my place to judge their choices.

 

[Ariel Mae]

It is a fact that the woman bears 100% of the physical risks of pregnancy. Risks mean more than pain, but yes the woman also bears 100% of the pain.

We're not just talking about physical pain, here, Chobie. I don't care what you think, I disagree. Stop trying to pass opinions as fact!

The man has the right to try and talk the woman into making the choice he wants. That's it.

Your view. Doesn't mean we have to agree, Chobie.

There is nothing to converse about. It's the woman's body.

Again, this is YOUR view. Stop trying to debunk ours and trying to force yours into our mind. Please.

It's very nice for people to have opinions, but as far as I'm concerned, they don't amount to much when it comes to one's private decisions.

But yours amount?

Can we just answer the question without having others trying to debunk our views/force theirs? "I think" implies opinion. "It is..." or "I know" implies fact. And, quite personally, I believe this is not a black and white issue. There's more to it than the eye and mind can sense. That's my view. And my view is that the man has an equal rights opportunity to say something. You don't agree with that? Fine. But don't try and impose your opinion over mine.

 

[chobie]

We're not just talking about physical pain, here, Chobie. I don't care what you think, I disagree. Stop trying to pass opinions as fact!



Your view. Doesn't mean we have to agree, Chobie.



Again, this is YOUR view. Stop trying to debunk ours and trying to force yours into our mind. Please.



But yours amount?

Can we just answer the question without having others trying to debunk our views/force theirs? "I think" implies opinion. "It is..." or "I know" implies fact. And, quite personally, I believe this is not a black and white issue. There's more to it than the eye and mind can sense. That's my view. And my view is that the man has an equal rights opportunity to say something. You don't agree with that? Fine. But don't try and impose your opinion over mine.

Again, I'm not talking about just the pain when I talk about physical risks. It is a fact that the woman is the one who bears 100% of the physical aspects, complications, and long-term effects of pregnancy and childbirth. It is a fact that the woman has 100% of the pregnancy and childbirth.


How can you argue with that. Do you know of a man that gave birth? Please share the details.

The rest, as you said is my opinon. But it is not my opinion that it is the woman who gets pregnant, and must have the medical procedure with all the risks involved that come with any medical procedure such as abortion, or child birth.

So even though the man's body and physical well-being are not at all affected the decision, you think he should have an equal say in what happen's to the woman's body? As much as some would like to, you cannot take the woman's body out of the equation when deciding about the "equality" of abortion.

 

[kristen821]

I am pro-life. I don't think there is any reason for a baby not to have the chance of life and I believe in life at conception. There are so many other options besides abortion. I wish abortion was illegal, but since it isn't I feel I don't have the right to judge someones decision, but I do hope someday abortion is illegal.

I also don't think any man should be able to get out of paying child support if they didn't want the child. If you play that is the risk you are taking, but if he does want the child and the mother doesn't I think he should have the right to that baby and the mother should not be able to have an abortion.

 

[Ariel Mae]

Again, I'm not talking about just the pain when I talk about physical risks. It is a fact that the woman is the one who bears 100% of the physical aspects, complications, and long-term effects of pregnancy and childbirth. It is a fact that the woman has 100% of the pregnancy and childbirth.

So, what, the man's mentality is no issue? He helped create it. My view. End of.

How can you argue with that. Do you know of a man that gave birth? Please share the details.

Seriously, why are you continuing to put words into other peoples' mouths??

The rest, as you said is my opinon. But it is not my opinion that it is the woman who gets pregnant, and must have the medical procedure with all the risks involved that come with any medical procedure such as abortion, or child birth.

But it is your opinion that the man has no say. Now, I disagree. Why? I've provided reasons. Now, I'm not going to answer this question, again, because someone doesn't know what the term 'opinion' means.

So even though the man's body and physical well-being are not at all affected the decision, you think he should have an equal say in what happen's to the woman's body?

*sighs* His body doesn't have the be the factor...his mind is a factor. My view. He's not just sitting idly by, thinking, "Hey, my sperm helped create that!". He may be thinking, "Wait, why is it that I'm not getting a say? I helped concieve that child. That's partially my fetus!" It can cause stress in men, therefore, some pain is felt, whether it is mental/phsyical, in my mind, does not matter!

Chobie, the next time you attempt to change my viewpoint/debunk it with yours as a higher status/fact, you will be going on ignore. I can handle debating my viewpoint, but having someone say it's not true, based on opinions passed as fact, does not fly. Do have a nice day.

 

[chobie]

So, what, the man's mentality is no issue? He helped create it. My view. End of.



Seriously, why are you continuing to put words into other peoples' mouths??



But it is your opinion that the man has no say. Now, I disagree. Why? I've provided reasons. Now, I'm not going to answer this question, again, because someone doesn't know what the term 'opinion' means.



*sighs* His body doesn't have the be the factor...his mind is a factor. My view. He's not just sitting idly by, thinking, "Hey, my sperm helped create that!". He may be thinking, "Wait, why is it that I'm not getting a say? I helped concieve that child. That's partially my fetus!" It can cause stress in men, therefore, some pain is felt, whether it is mental/phsyical, in my mind, does not matter!

Chobie, the next time you attempt to change my viewpoint/debunk it with yours as a higher status/fact, you will be going on ignore. I can handle debating my viewpoint, but having someone say it's not true, based on opinions passed as fact, does not fly. Do have a nice day.

Please do ignore me. It is impossible to have an honest discussion about abortion if you refuse to acknowledge that the equation is not equal when only one partner's body is affected by a decision that you think should be made by both people.

It does not fly that a man's feelings are equal to a woman's feelings + her body being possible forced to undergo a medical procedure she does not wish to have.

Please do put me on ignore.

 

[katerkat]

I am a woman who is pro-choice...

I would like to know if the people who voted AGAINST abortion
have ADOPTED any unwanted children
Kerri

Oooh, oooh, do we get extra credit if we do? Does our vote actually count for something if we adopt?

 

[Ariel Mae]

Please do ignore me. It is impossible to have an honest discussion about abortion if you refuse to acknowledge that the equation is not equal when only one partner's body is affected by a decision that you think should be made by both people.

*Turns it around* It's impossible to have a conversation on abortion if you refuse to acknowledge that the equation is an equal opportunity when both people feel the pain and are affected by the decision that you think should be made by one person.

So you disagree with it being equal. Fine. We accept that. But we, some of us, think it's about equality in opportunity/choice, the chance for something to be said/dealt with. Does that make us right? Does that make us wrong? To you, we may be wrong, but to us, you're in the wrong, but we're not going to outright say it, b/c we cannot prove it. Same for your side, Chobie, same for your side.

It does not fly that a man's feelings are equal to a woman's feelings + her body being possible forced to undergo a medical procedure she does not wish to have.

All right, we get it, you disagree with some of us. But does that make you right? No. Does that make us right? No. Really, there is no right and wrong, in this. Just because you think something does not automically make it right for everyone. "I think apples are delicious." Okay, yeah? What about Joe, who doesn't like apples? Is he going to get flamed, now, too?

I'm sorry, but I don't mind opinions, and I don't mind disagreements...as long as you're respectful and mature in them. "Okay, so you disagree. That's fine. To each their own." over "Why do you disagree? How dare you believe this!".

Chobie, you word your things so well, but what I'm not understanding is why you seem to put your opinion above all others. That's my issue. Why is it your opinion is acceptable, but the rest are debunkable? Just because you or anyone else says something does not automatically make it true/right for everyone who posts. "It is fact" implies just that: Fact. And with assertions of facts come sources. Please provide. "I think" implies opinion, no sources necessary, b/c it is not being asserted as truth.

 

[chobie]

*Turns it around* It's impossible to have a conversation on abortion with someone who is passing opinions as fact, trying to debunk other peoples' viewpoints just because they disagree. They must be right, after all.



All right, we get it, you disagree with some of us. But does that make you right? No. Does that make us right? No. Really, there is no right and wrong, in this. Just because you think something does not automically make it right for everyone. "I think apples are delicious." Okay, yeah? What about Joe, who doesn't like apples? Is he going to get flamed, now, too?

I'm sorry, but I don't mind opinions, and I don't mind disagreements...as long as you're respectful and mature in them. "Okay, so you disagree. That's fine. To each their own." over "Why do you disagree? How dare you believe this!".

Chobie, you word your things so well, but what I'm not understanding is why you seem to put your opinion above all others. That's my issue. Why is it your opinion is acceptable, but the rest are debunkable? Just because you or anyone else says something does not automatically make it true/right for everyone who posts. "It is fact" implies just that: Fact. And with assertions of facts come sources. Please provide. "I think" implies opinion, no sources necessary, b/c it is not being asserted as truth.

You are being disingenuous. You refuse to admit that the woman has more of the affects here. You want to make this equal and in some respects it is equal. The emotional effects -equal. The financial aspects of raising a child-equal. The medical/physical aspects-100% the woman.

 

[JennyMominRI]

So, what, the man's mentality is no issue? He helped create it. My view. End of.


Chobie, the next time you attempt to change my viewpoint/debunk it with yours as a higher status/fact, you will be going on ignore. I can handle debating my viewpoint, but having someone say it's not true, based on opinions passed as fact, does not fly. Do have a nice day.

yes, I am thinking use of the ignore feature might be very handy here

 

[Ariel Mae]

You refuse to admit that the woman has more of the affects here.

Because I don't agree with this statment! That's the issue here. You're expecting me to suddenly flip my opinion because you said so. Well, guess what? I'm not going to!

You want to make this equal and in some respects it is equal.

I never said it was equal, per say, but that there should, in my opinion, be an equal say.

The emotional effects -equal. The financial aspects of raising a child-equal. The medical/physical aspects-100% the woman.

Who's to say the emotional effects are equal? The father may feel far less than the mother. Who's to say the financial effects are equal? What if the mother works, and the dad doesn't? And as for the medical aspect and the physical aspect...I simply do not agree that it is all on the mother. Why? Because I've seen fathers go through the stress of a female's abortion, and, hey, guess what? They had physical illness because of such, and, hey, guess what? The mother, in these instances, didn't take full control, and it worked out fine. They talked it out and came to the decision to abort. Both felt it, but it wasn't equal, but what was equal was the decision discussion.

Chobie, stop trying to pass opinions as fact, please!

 

[Ariel Mae]

yes, I am thinking use of the ignore feature might be very handy here

Like I said, I can handle debating...but having my viewpoint outright debunked in the, "I'm right, you're wrong" manner....*eyes ignore function*